Talk:Patriots (Metal Gear)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 5/8/2006. The result of the discussion was keep.
Famicom style controller This article is part of WikiProject Computer and video games, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to video games on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Portal:CVG
 CVG Portal
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale.
CVG To-do:

There's no Chinese alphabet. 80.133.247.62 13:57, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Origins of The Patriots (MPO)

Someone who has played through MPO should revise this article, based on the information presented towards the end of the game. This info seems to say that Ocelot, Big Boss, and a mysterious third entity are in fact The Patriots. This may also call for revision the "Agents of The Patriots" section, as Ocelot now appears to be member.

In another twist, it seems that The Philosophers did NOT become The Patriots. Ocelot seems to have killed all the Philosophers at the end of MPO. I speak only as someone who has read plot summaries, someone who has played the game should edit this article.


[edit] Rosemary is Pregnant

In this article it says:

"Rosemary - Assigned to spy on Raiden[15]. Became romantically involved with him and was impregnated with his child. However this can not be confirmed as being true or not. It has been a theory that this was only the computer (GW) fabricating this story.[16]"

I remember quite clearly at the end of MGS2, Raiden and Rose meet eachother (proving that Rose does exist for one thing). But afterwords Jack talks about how Snake told him about how people want their genes to live on, and Rosemary asks if he's talking about their baby:

Rose: Do you remember this place?

Jack: Of course. This is where we first met... I remember now -- Today is the day I met you.

Rose: That's it.

Jack: I think I found something to pass along to the future. He said all living things want their genes to live on.

Rose: Are you talking about the baby?

Jack: Yeah. But genes aren't the only thing you pass on. There are too many things that aren't written into our DNA. It's up to us to teach that to our children.

[edit] Outside sources

Is there anything we can say in this article that isn't going to be sourced to a quote in the game, or a first-party making-of or behind-the-scenes work? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 19:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Anything? Hello? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:46, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

You're lucky I came along, first whats wrong with a first party making of DVD, the MGS3 article has tons of stuff sourced to quotes anyway. Finnaly you can't delete this your nomination was blown away, I know you didn't say that but I can read between the lines.

(The Bread 03:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC))

==LaLiLuLeLo.com]] Hey, take a look at this. Is it some sort of viral marketing or an ARG, I wonder? --Onias 19:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WoW

So confused lol, all the diffrent ideas and theroys make my brain hurt I understand it but I had to read it twice. OUCH!!! User:Kami-Sama

[edit] Director of Central Intelligence a patriot

Go to the picture of the 12 men on this article in the history section and compare the picture of the patriot 2nd in one down to the picture of the Director of Central Intelligence what can be found on List of characters in Metal Gear Solid 3 the Director of Central Intelligence and the picture on this artical both look the same the Director of Central Intelligence's biography says he might be a patriot because of his high connections in goverment. User:Kami-Sama

[edit] La Li Lu Le Lo debate

The person who wrote the paragraph about "La Li Lu Le Lo" being 5 missing characters in japanese language, well...doesn't even know the basis of japanese language. And he's never played the game in japanese.

Because in japanese game, it's Ra Ri Ru Re Ro (らりるれろ), which are of course 5 perfectly existing japanese hiragana.


So this paragraph is rubbish. Folken de Fanel 11:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

They are inexistant CHINESE characters. Play the goddamn game, or at least read the script. PUT THE PARAGRAPH BACK ON.
We're talking about a JAPANESE game, and about JAPANESE characters. I've read the script and I know it more than you. Unless you never noticed, Hideo Kojima is japanese and not chinese. Ra Ri Ru Re Ro (らりるれろ in the original script, which you don't know at all) are perfectly exisisting japanese characters. And there are no "missing characters" in chinese nor in any language: MGS2 is only a game, don't take it literally. The paragraph won't be put back, as it's original research, and completely false. Folken de Fanel 00:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
  • As far as I'm concerned, you're both idiots. Find a citation as to Kojima's original intent or a suitable thirdparty's interpretation, or delete the reference. Sockatume 00:56, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
As far as I'm concerned, I'm not idiot. I'm only explaining the truth concerning japanese language. Folken de Fanel 17:09, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Fair enough on the talk page, but neither musing can go into the article due to WP:OR.Sockatume 17:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I can't see where would be the OR in stating in the article that japanese language has no missing letters, and that the characters used in the original script are existing japanese hiragana...Nonetheless, there's nothing about all this in the actual article, I'm merely explaining in the talk page why the theory was reverted. Folken de Fanel 21:46, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, I was probably being a bit harsh. If it's all direct from the design document anyway then it should be fine.Sockatume 22:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I know pretty well that it's a Japanese game, made by Kojima, a Japanese game designer - I'm fully aware of the differences. I may not remember it well, alright, but what I mean was that "La Li Lu Le Lo" were five characters absent from the Chinese language. There was a discussion about in in-game between Otacon and Raiden, I believe. Sorry for provoking this much confusion (I really shouldn't have written "PUT THE PARAGRAPH BACK ON"; I was a dumbass at that moment, I admit it), but there are reasons for the Patriots being also referred as La Li Lu Le Lo, and it is explained in the game. Can someone go search the game script for the part that mentions that? If you don't mind, I may do it myself. That section doesn't answer the question, "Why La Li Lu Le Lo", and we really should put that answer.
As I've already said, in the original japanese script, it's Ra Ri Ru Re Ro (らりるれろ) : it has nothing to do with chinese language or missing letters. These characters are existing japanese letters.
This theory of missing letters is an original research, because there is absolutely no evidence to that. "Ra ri ru re ro" is just a random set of japanese characters. There has been nothing hinting at any further meaning. It's just like our "ABCDE".
As I said earlier, we're speaking of a japanese game, and in this case of japanese characters, I can't see what chinese language has to do here.
Also, even if I'm more at ease with japanese (not meaning that I speak it, but I have a little -very little- basis, contrary to chinese which I don't know at all) I know at least that there is no chinese "letters" or "alphabet", but only ideographic characters, called Hanzi. As they are ideograms, each character represents an idea, and not a letter.
Really, these explanations are fantaisists.
1) they can't be linked to any concrete element. Ra ri ru re ro are just random japanese characters.
2) these theory are simply incorrect. I can't say more, the people advocating these theories simply don't know these languages.
3) the line that Emma spoke to Raiden in the game, was just an example of what could be the power of the patriots. It was just a simplification, to make their objective more clear to Raiden. But there has been no indication that this example has to apply to Ra ri ru re ro.
4) I repeat again, these theories just don't make sense, there's no missing letters anywhere. And chinese language doesn't even have letters. It is all nonsensical.
5) And no, it will never return in the article. In reference to the OR rule of Wikipedia, the articles cannot include unsourced or unproved theories. What we have here is a fan-made theory with no solid proof except assumptions by non-japanese and non-chinese speaking people. They have artifically linked notions that were never linked at all by the game creators. They taken everything out of context. Thus this part is original research. Moreover it is completely inaccurate, so now I hope you understand this theory will not appear anymore here, and that there is no need of further discussion. Folken de Fanel 00:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Patriots, Digital Mentality

Metal Gear Soli 2 Grand Game Plan, page 31:

"Ames: [The Patriots]'ve surpassed the bonds of physical existence.

Solidus: Yes, they're nothing more than a bunch of decrepic old men now.

Solidus: So they transferred their mentality to cyberspace."

It's a fan-translation, but, since it's a translation, obviously this part had to present in the original text. So, I guessed it was worthy being in the main article and put it there. Seems to me like a good proof.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../p/a/t/Talk%7EPatriots_%28Metal_Gear%29_ee59.html"