Talk:Parachuting

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[edit] 2006 Vandalism

This article is a persistent recent target of vandalism (September 2006). The vandalism has persisted unfixed for 2 days sometimes. PLEASE add this article to your watch lists, for everyone who has contributed good edits. Mdrejhon 21:25, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Nasty Typo

Reading the article, I noticed a typo in the term "parachute rigger" - on five occasions, the "r" in "rigger" appears as an "n". I suggest a hasty correction.

Fixed. Thanks for bringing this to attention. Rklawton 17:39, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite Needed

I propose rewriting/reorganizing all parachuting related articles to make them more readable and navigable. Check out my sandbox for my current outline: User:Rklawton/Sandbox Rklawton 20:46, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Your outline looks good to me. One point though; there's no need to separate every smallest component of a rig into an article of its own, or to have a separate article for high-speed and low-speed mals until the articles grow too big. "Parachuting" is too big at the moment; it should be split to several articles. However, there is no information on malfunctions at the moment so there is no justification for creating separate articles for them just yet. Skydiver 08:56, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Rklawton 16:11, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Camera flying copyvio

The extremely long section about camera flying was copied verbatim from [1]. I replaced it with a two-sentence stub. Could someone who is familiar with camera flying write something from scratch? Thanks! -- hike395 13:20, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I'm working on it. Folks are invited to help here: User:Rklawton/Sandbox Rklawton 05:51, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infomration about skydiving simulators and wind tunnels

There is no mentioning of wind tunnels and skydiving simulators. I think we need to mention them. Hopefully I will get some information down about that. -- sjcomp 25 Feb 2005

From the end of safety:

In many countries, either the local regulations or the liability-conscious prudence of the dropzone owners require that parachutists must have attained the age of majority before engaging in the sport.

What is the age of majority? I've never heard of that phrase before.

"The age of majority" is the age at which one becomes legally an adult; meaning their parents are no longer required to support them, they can vote, etc. In the United States, this is the age of 18.Rlevse 16:31, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
This is fixed -- Last year I added the link to the vertical wind tunnel article that I created. Mdrejhon 21:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Equipment

I did some slight wikification on this one, but I think there should be a bit about equipment. For the rest I consider it a rather good article, apart from it's length.

Nazgjunk||(talk) 17:52, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

There is an article called Parachute. It needs a bit of work in regard to sports parachute equipment, but I think that would be the appropriate place for information about gear. Skydiver 12:38, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Saftey

After seeing first hand many injuries and two fatalities, I think the section on saftey understates the dangers of skydiving. There'd be few long term jumpers that don't know personaly, or at least know of, someone who has gone in. I'm going to reword.

[edit] Shortening the article

I've split off Cross-country jump and (re)moved most of the text under Tracking to Freeflying/Tracking. The text under the Tracking-section didn't really have anything Freeflying/Tracking doesn't cover.Skydiver 15:15, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] skydiving?

I think that "skydiving" as a recreation should be its own seperate article. This article is fairly long and it concerns things other than skydiving for recreation, which I think would have quite enough stuff to be its own article. I came to the article looking for "skydiving" and didn't want to go through the article to find it, although it is in there.

[edit] Introduction

Should we add SAR (Search and Rescue) to the list of parachuting occupations? Seems important--Doc0tis 20:11, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Parachuting v. Skydiving

To shorten this article, it might help to split off parachuting from "Skydiving." This works if we consider parachuting as a means of transportation or life-saving. Here’s a hierarchy of articles that I think makes sense:

Parachuting: descent solely by means of parachute.

Military parachuting:

Static-line
HALO
HAHO
Bailout systems

Note these are separate from how these are applied airborne, SEALS, SAR, SAS, SF, etc. Articles on application, for example SAR, can then link back to the article(s) on methods.

Note that the equipment and procedures for each of these methods are different.

Civilian parachuting:

BASE jumping (from a fixed object)
Skydiving (from an aircraft)

Again, equipment and methods differ between these methods.

With this approach, Skydiving (recreational) becomes a subcategory under civilian parachuting which is a subcategory under parachuting. We can then write separate articles on types of equipment, professions, and disciplines and link them back to the relevant articles. The following hierarchy illustrates one thread of articles under parachuting equipment:

Skydiving gear
Pilot chute
BOC
Throw-out
Pull-out

Each profession involving parachuting should also have its own article. SEALS, no doubt, have their own article, so why not smoke jumpers, tandem-masters, jump-pilot, and videographers? The “professions” articles could then link back to the method and equipment articles appropriate for their trade.

Question: What’s the best way to flesh out a hierarchy of articles and then complete each? Should we turn this into a project? It’s off-season here in the north, so maybe now is a good time to work on this. Rklawton 19:36, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it would be a good idea to start an article on "general parachuting" that would include short paragraphs on all kinds of parachuting. Most of this article(the current Parachuting) should be moved to "Skydiving" or "Sports parachuting". "Skydiving" would be my personal preference, but it could be argued that CRW and accuracy jumpers don't skydive, they just parachute. I don't think I agree on your main division between military and civilian parachuting. The military has skydiving teams, civilians do S/L, smoke jumpers are civilians but use mostly military technique etc. I think it should be just:
Parachuting
Skydiving
BASE jumping
HALO/HAHO
Smoke jumping
bailout systems Aircrew emergency parachutes (Just my personal preference)
Ejection seat systems
etc
What do you think? Skydiver 16:20, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
I think parachuting boils down to:
  • Professional
  • Sport
  • Emergency
Note: HALO is Professional->Military, BASE goes under Sport, Ejection systems goes under Emergency, Smoke Jumping goes under Professional.
I would include these three introductions in the main parachuting article and then branch off from there. This would make the parachuting article much shorter and easier to follow. I like this three part breakdown at the highest level because the training and equipment also branch off at this point. As a result, we'd have different articles on equipment (parachute, harness, container, etc.) and training within each of these three branches. As a result, readers won't see "Swing Lander Trainers" in the same article as Bill Booth's tandem video (military training, sport training).
I've started working on this in my own little sandbox [User:Rklawton/Sandbox]]. I'll copy these ideas over and insert them into the existing outline. Note that each item in the outline may simply be a header or subheader within an article and not necessarily an article itself. I still have a long way to go as I flesh this out. My plan is to flesh this out in my sandbox, post notes in the talk pages for all existing parachuting related articles with specific suggestions and a link back to my sandbox for comment, and then after a suitable discussion period clean up, merge, or add articles as per the sandbox drafts in one great sweep. I realize this should actually become a "project," but I don't know the first thing about creating or managing wiki projects here. Oh! Here's my sandbox: User:Rklawton/Sandbox. You are invited to comment/edit as desired. Rklawton 05:50, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manuvering in air?

Just curious, what kind of manuvers are possible while in free fall (before parachute is deployed). In other words can they change their facing, spin, flip, etc by using their arms and legs? About how manuverable would you say a person is in free fall?

You've got complete maneuverability on all three axes, roll, pitch, and yaw. Folks who use all three are called "freefliers." See Freeflying. Keep in mind that body position will also affect airspeed and flight direction.Rklawton 05:23, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Skydiving vs. Parachuting

As a skydiver, I object to skydiving being redirected here and then to be told that "Parachuting, or skydiving, is an activity involving the breaking of a free-fall from a height using a parachute". Skydiving is not that at all. Skydiving is about the part before the parachute opens.

I'm sure there are skydivers who will disagree on this, but at the very least, skydiving is certainly not limited to "an activity involving the breaking of a free-fall from a height using a parachute".

I agree. It's on my todo list. All the sport-related stuff is in serious need of overhaul.Rklawton 15:22, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree (though that definition works for CRW ;-) and think it'd be a good idea to reduce the parachuting page to one that links to the various forms of parachuting, e.g. skydiving and base jumping as these, though directly related, are totally different sports, and skydiving defines the sport better than parachuting. Superdix 10:12, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Parachuting merge

Both articles are already very long. Merging them makes little sense. One article is about a piece of hardware. The other article is about the hardware's many applications. If if the topics were about Toasters and Toasting, I'd understand. Rklawton 19:46, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree. If there is a problem here, it's not that the two should be merged, it's that parachute covers too much ground. Superdix 20:44, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Me too - they are about different things. Ian Page 01:07, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
As a skydiver, I agree as well. Parachuting and skydiving are NOT the same thing. -E
Oppose merge. Parachute is a device, parachuting is something done with the device, both deserve their own separate articles. If anything I think we need to consider splitting off skydiving, the sport, as a separate article from parachuting which is a much broader topic. Dragomiloff 22:14, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Merge tag removed - it's been a couple of weeks, and I see no merge supporters here. Rklawton 03:46, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

I have removed external links to discussion forums as they are a violation of WP:EL. -- MakeChooChooGoNow 19:48, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

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