Talk:Panchen Lama

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I think the BBC link was good, but needed NPOV title, I was changing it to read "BBC News article - " Tibet's missing spiritual guide" but I got edit conflicted. Alf 00:45, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

But it doesn't need to be on the Erdini Qoigyijabu page. Alf 00:47, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

As a compromise to an apparent edit war, I am including the BBC News article link, with a suitably NPOV title on the Panchem Lama article's external links section, as I feel it is relevant here, and not relevant on the Erdini Qoigyijabu article. Please sort it out on the talk pages before any further revert war. Alf 01:03, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

I suggest that discussions on Panchen Lama, Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, 11th Panchen Lama and Erdini Qoigyijabu be held on this page for ease, with either notes or redirects to go here. As I mentioned elsewhere, I think the BBC article is worth using, personally I think it belongs on the Gedhun Choekyi Nyima article.Alf 01:29, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

I have no strong opinion about Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, but in seems quite inappropriate to title the article about Erdini Qoigyijabu Erdini Qoigyijabu, 11th Panchen Lama considering the controversy involved. It's also unnecessary: there's no other Erdini Qoigyijabu that I'm aware of. - Nat Krause(Talk!) 00:07, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

If we had the "11th Panchen Lama" suffix only at the Gedhun Choekyi Nyima article, it would be biased towards the Tibetan side. I suggested awhile ago to have neither article have the suffix, but User:Ran said that he thought it was fine the way was. --Khoikhoi 00:19, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, I suppose you're right, but I say that with the caveat that think it would not be unfairly biased to list the title on Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, if we could clearly establish that he does, indeed, represent the Tibetan side. These are, after all, Tibetan Buddhist religious leaders; favouring the Tibetan side in this case is like favouring the Roman Catholic side on who is Pope and Supreme Pontiff, which is what we do when have an article titled Pope Benedict XVI, but refuse to move Lucian Pulvermacher to Pope Pius XIII. However, in this case, there is no neutral way to determine which of these two young men is more authentically represents the Tibetan side. That being the case, I propose to drop the title from both of them. - Nat Krause(Talk!) 04:25, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I think that's a good idea as well. Should I contact an admin? --Khoikhoi 04:57, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
No need, my South African friend. I already got an admin to move the GCN article, and the Erdini Q article can be done by commoners such as ourselves. - Nat Krause(Talk!) 05:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Heh, I'm actually American - I just liked the sound of the name. ;) --Khoikhoi 06:04, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Big Issue Ahead

In case you don't know, this will be used in the unfortunate years to come. The Panchen Lama helps find the Dalai Lama's next rebirth. The chinese will use that little poor boy they are holding and naming Panchen Lama. I feel so bad for him! The Panchen Lama was recognized by HH Dalai Lama and that is the only Panchen Lama the Tibetan people will accept. He has gone missing. Do you know that the previous Panchen Lama was poisoned? I see Nat Krause (american) and Khoikhoi(unknown) are regular editors here. Let me give you some more info then. It is a BIG issue for our next Dalai Lama. People expect Him to be born in Tibet, not India. The Panchen Lama is suppose to help find Him. I hope you see why the chinese were so helpful in finding and supporting THEIR CHOICE of Panchen Lama. The Communist Party is supporting a reincarnate lama? What is up with that? Have you ever heard of Communist Buddhist? They think they can fool us all! But no. We are watching. We have to show determination. We have to stay true to the Tibetan people, not the communists who do not even accept Buddhism and have other motivation: to have a chinese controled "dalai lama" and "panchen lama" of their choice so they can control TAR. IT DOESN'T WORK THIS WAY! Please open your eyes! Any questions, let me know! Me 03:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Panchen Ötrul Rinpoche

According to this website (http://www.jampaling.org/rinpoche.html) Panchen Ötrul Rinpoche "was selected as the final candidate of the re-incarnation of the Panchen Lama who had died in 1937". Does this mean he should have been the 10th Panchen Lama?

It depends on what you mean by "should", of course, but this is not the position taken by any authoritative figure that I'm aware of. The situation, as I understand it, was that Panchen Ötrul was the candidate favoured by the Dalai Lama's faction, but they never officially declared that he was the 10th Panchen Lama. Choekyi Gyaltsen was the candidate supported by the previous Panchen Lama's faction (bear in mind that the 9th Panchen Lama had been on terrible terms with the 13th Dalai Lama) and who also had the patronage of the Chinese. In 1951, when the Chinese Communists took control of Tibet (but well before the Dalai Lama fled to India in 1959), the Dalai Lama accepted Choekyi Gyaltsen as Panchen Lama under Chinese pressure (which was possible because the selection of Panchen Ötrul was never formally finalized), and Panchen Ötrul was given a consolation prize. Apparently, neither the Dalai Lama nor the Chinese nor anybody else has questioned this result since then.—Nat Krause(Talk!) 19:36, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Ah, I see. I hadn't realised the complexity of the situation! Thank you.
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