Talk:Pan-Celticism

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Late 1990s: Scottish and Irish Youth parliaments begin

Is this relevant? Gerry Lynch 17:25, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, because they often visit each other's countries. It seems to be set up more as an exchange than anything else.

[edit] Music

I was initially hesitant to add England as a matter of course, but a quick scan on the internet shows references to music/individuals from England - notably to do with Northumbria or the Northumbrian pipes, yet also some mentioning of Cumbria - at festivals that celebrate 'Celtic music'. This is important and warrants a mention. Had Cumbria its own flag, I'd have added that and Northumbria/Bernicia/North East England as entities like Asturias and Galicia. For future additions, there is a strong likelihood of inclusion from Devon. Enzedbrit 03:35, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Certain types of English music are that country's best claim to "Celticity". Cumbria does have its own flag, but if you know the faintest wee smidgin about "Cumbria", you will know that the majority of the locals there consider it an artificial entity from Heath's era and identify with Cumberland, Westmorland and, in parts, Lancashire. Neither Cumbria nor Northumbria are entities like Asturias and Galicia at all. For one, both of these were created in the 1970s by London, and despite bearing the names of earlier kingdoms, have little to do with them. Also, neither has successfully voted for home rule. If you remember rightly, the North East of England turned it down, and that was the beginning of the end for John Prescott. Neither really consider themselves nations to any large degree. There is a Geordie identity, but in contradistinction to Macker etc. Yorkshire and Lancashire have more united identities, although of course, Merseyside was formerly in Lancashire (partly), and they think of themselves quite differently again. (This is all without dwelling on Cornwall, and/or Devon) --MacRusgail 14:58, 15 September 2006 (UTC) p.s. It might be helpful to talk about subnational identities. Some parts of the Six are often considered more Celtic, and the same applies to England.

The faintest wee smidgeon of knowledge of Cumbria would indeed reveal that 'many', but not most - as the idea of a Cumbria has taken such strong rooting - regard Cumbria as artificial, but as with Celticity in north west Spain, the idea is being fostered and will prevail, especially with those of my generation and younger who have only lived in a Cumbria and not a Westmorland. Northumbria wasn't created in the 1970s, more like the 6th century, and it doesn't exist as official in anything today other than name and attributes to institutions. Northumbria is as genuine by name, as a region, as Galicia and Asturias. The difference between Cumbria/Northumbria and Galicia/Asturias is that Celtic languages were spoken in the former, where there has always been a continuation of Celtic tradition, for a longer period (and still well known in many ways) whereas in the latter there is a big drive to it now as a way of separation from Spanish identity. I even read a website that referred to Galician as a Celtic language because the Galicians regard themselves as Celts and have their own language - Latin - which must also be Celtic. There is nothing in language, music and culture that is more Celtic about Galicia than the north east of England, with its tartan, pipes, mythology. The difference is that people are ready and willing to accept Galicia, but no part of England other than Cornwall. I'm glad that the North East voted down devolution because it was not what the majority wanted and the idea of the north east as it is today is very artificial - just a compass point name. However, there is a very strong regional identity in the north east, be it by people who call themselves North Easterners, Geordies, Northumbrias, Bernicians, with so many parallels to nationhood, but I wouldn't call it nationhood as that's pointless in so many ways. The idea of a Yorkshire identity is very strong, and the fact that the area is Yorkshire plain and simple, identified and certain, is a big part of that. I can't say though how much of Yorkshire's regional culture and identity draws on its Celtic heritage; of the relatively little I do know of Yorkshire is that there is many a Yorkshireman that would list themselves Yorkshire, British and then European before English. Enzedbrit 03:45, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Galician is no more a "Celtic language" than Lowland Scots, Galo or Anglo-Irish. However, once again you betray your anglocentrism by referring to the "north east". I'm afraid the north east of the UK is Banff and Buchan. ;-) You have an obsession with Celtic England, but ignore other countries such as France which have similar claims to "Celticity" (minus Brittany, cf the "Cornish Celts" tend not to consider themselves English if they are of the nat tendency). I'm yet to meet someone who considers themselves "Bernician" (probably they exist somewhere), and in my experience Geordies have a deeper Newcastle identity than Northumbrian, although perhaps it is there.

"The difference is that people are ready and willing to accept Galicia, but no part of England other than Cornwall." - no they aren't. The Celtic League and Celtic Congress don't accept Galicia. Read up before you edit. --MacRusgail 17:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I betray my heritage by saying 'north east' because my mother's family call Co. Durham home. It is how I speak. Had they been from north east Scotland and I referred to the north east in a Scottish context without saying 'Scotland', would you say the same? I will always refer to the 'north east' and see no hypocricy in it; it is my heritage.

I am well aware that Galician is not a Celtic language, which was my point. I am well aware that Cornish nationalists tend not to identify as English. Yet, people ARE more willing to accept Galicia. The Celtic League and Celtic Congress, in whom I hold no regard, are not 'everyone'. I wasn't even referring to them. Maybe you should read my edit before you criticise it. A quick look on-line shows that Galicia is linked so often to being Celtic. Enzedbrit 03:27, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

It's only the north east to people in England. Not to me. And I wouldn't necessarily refer to the "north east" on wikipedia, as the many American editors might think I meant New England, or the more globally minded might think I meant China, Korea and Japan. I hate to tell you this, but Galicia doesn't get that much more of a look in than English. You may well hold neither the Congress or the League in "no regard", but these are probably the most significant pan-Celtic organisations, which means their opinion holds more weight than your individual interpretation which is based more on keeping the "Home Nations" British than pan-Celticism. Galicia's Celtic heritage only really holds up when it comes to music, and that's arguably due to an Irish influx in the past few centuries. It's actually not particularly distinctively Celtic when seen in a broader international context. I think even the country where your accent comes from (New Zealand) has a better claim to being "Celtic". --MacRusgail 13:27, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Twin Towns - Cornwall/Brittany

I wonder if pan-celtics are interested in the list at: List_of_twin_towns_in_the_United_Kingdom#Cornwall and other cultural and sporting programmes and events. - - - Vernon White 16:17, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Modern Celts"

Please take most of the discussion as to who is/isn't a "Celt" to the Modern Celts article, it doesn't really belong here, and just doubles up on what is there.

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