Talk:Pan-American Highway
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[edit] Prologue
There seemes to be considerable disagreement about the actual length of the Pan-American Highway. Just on Wikipedia(as of 22:49, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)), the length is reported as a "17,000-mile road" on Interstate 5, as "approximately 16,000 miles (25,750 km)" long on Pan-American Highway and Pan-American Highway (route).
A quick Google search on Pan-American Highway length gives such various answers as:
- "Length: 48,000 kilimeters (30,000 miles)" from icivilengineer.com
- "over 24,140 km (15,000 miles) in length" from guinnessworldrecords.com
- as well as many Wikipedia "mirrors"... (Oddly enough, although there are two "mirrors" in the top 10 listings for Google, Wikipedia itself is not listed.)
Anybody know how to get more precise information on this? JesseW 22:49, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
See my recent additions to Talk:Pan-American Highway (route) - it appears there is no official route in the US or Canada, and the Highway has branches in Mexico so it hits the border in four places. --SPUI 15:15, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I can't find exact routes of any but the original Laredo branch (I don't trust the crap on Pan-American Highway (route) for the Nogales branch). any help, maybe a map of the system? --SPUI 16:43, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Grrr, a 1953 NYT article lists the border connections as El Paso, Laredo, Brownsville, Pharr and Nogales. It says that the south end will be at Puerto Montt, Chile with the easternmost spur to Rio de Janeiro, and the north end will be in Fairbanks.
The Nogales route is said to be the newest, and it appears it doesn't join the others until Mexico City. The El Paso route hits the Laredo route at Mexico City. The Pharr route, also known as the Eagle Pass route (what?!?), splits at Monterey, and the Brownsville route splits at Ciudad Victoria. --SPUI 17:00, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I suppose you mean "Monterrey" (Mexico), not "Monterey" (California). Am I wrong? -Contricanis
Ah, the irony.
Dan, Please see the following information on the Pan American Highway. This is an online article that contains information on spur routes that may be helpful to you. However, we cannot vouch for this information at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-American_Highway Thank you, Ed -----Original Message----- From: SPUI [mailto:drspui@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 4:46 PM To: Rodriguez, Ed Subject: Re: Pan-American Highway On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:56:39 -0500, Rodriguez, Ed <Ed.Rodriguez@fhwa.dot.gov> wrote: > Dear Dan, > In response to your request for information on the Pan American Highway, I offer the following. <snipped> Thanks for the information. Unfortunately, it's not exactly what I'm looking for. I've read an old New York Times article from the 1930s that describes branches being built in Mexico to the US border at several places, including Pharr and Brownsville. The info you sent is more tourist-oriented, describing one route along the system that tourists could take and possible spurs. I'm looking for a simple description of the system, in a form similar to this: main route - Laredo to Yaviza spur - El Paso to Mexico City and so on, listing all the spurs that are considered part of the system. Thanks again for any help. -- Dan "SPUI" Moraseski
--SPUI 23:13, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Fear of Colombian immigrants "reclaiming" Panama?
That really seems either totally fictional or just a personal belief, in light of current concerns at the moment...this is not 1910 or so, or even ~1970, when such a worry might actually be considered a semi-reasonable attitude. Yet things have changed so much, regionally and worldwide, and I would be extremely surprised if the U.S. government actually had any such fear. Never heard of it outside of this Wikipedia article, personally, and can't find it elsewhere either. Anyone have any other (supported and referenced) ideas about this? Juancarlos2004 01:37, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
- It is mentioned in Tim Cahill's book "Road Fever" as one of several reasons why the gap has never been given a road. Panama was broken off from Colombia, and so there is, or at least was, some fear of a reconquest. Fear of Panama becoming more of a route for drug trafficking is also cited as a reason. Simple ecological problems (dense forest and bad groun) are also mentioned. Who knows. Murple 06:46, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Colombians reclaiming Panamá it is not that far fetched
Americans know that roads can be built anywhere as road techniques and technology were developped almost one hundred years ago. To say that the Darien's Gap is the reason for not having a built that part of the Pan-Am highway is just naive. Of course, people in underdevelopped countries is gullible enough to believe that.
Yes, there is a problem on the Panamian border with Colombia, many poor Colombians have settled on the Panama side of the border and the Panama government from time to time deports hundreds of Colombians who cross the border illegally. Colombians migrate to Panama to run away from Colombia's brutal violence, social inequalities and lack of opportunities. On the other hand Panama's population is too small for the size of its territory which means that any massive migration would easily change social map of that nation.
Yes, these are situations that worry the US, who prefers the canal to be "run" by a small but controllable state instead of a country like Colombia with a growing population that might awake to reclaim its place in the international arena. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tequendamia (talk • contribs) 00:50, 28 May 2005.
- I'd like to see concrete proof that supports your last paragraph. Specifically, that the U.S. government indeed has that position. There's a huge leap between "we don't want to see more Colombian migrants here" and "we believe that the Colombian migrants will magically take power away from local Panamanians and call to 'annex' Panama back to Colombia". That connection is not automatic and requires greater support. Is there any current and official U.S. document that contains such a claim? A claim which supposes that a massive flood will occur without the Panamanian government doing anything it's not already doing, or even deciding to take harsher measures, and the complete passivity of the rest of the Panamanian population. Not to mention, of course, the belief that poor Colombians would actually want to "seize power" in the first place.Juancarlos2004 18:42, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Denying that Panama was forcefully separated from Colombia by the US
The supression of that line is just an attempt to deny historical facts which make Americans unconfortable about their own history. --tequendamia 11:39, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
- Not at all, considering that I've made edits to other articles to try and include references to what you've just addressed. To hide that is not what I intend, which is to highlight what I've already mentioned and not to try to give external political and historical meaning to it. It's an Wikipedia article about the Pan-American Highway, it has to be encyclopedic, hence the concerns included have to deal with confirmed statements and positions, not with partially true theories which nevertheless have not been fully proven to be the case (at least not as described). Juancarlos2004 15:35, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
The line presents a non-neutral point of view, and is irrelevant to the actual article unless a source can be sited (meaning you must link to an outside source where the topic of that setence is discussed or proven). In my opinion, The line has nothing to do with the Pan-American Highway, it is not a "supression" because this article isn't discussing whether or not the US is trying to keep Colombia from regaining Panama or how wrong or right it was for the US to take Panama from Colombia; that reason for the Darien Gap is an opinion and not a fact. PRueda29 19:16, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] clean-up tag
This article needs to be cleaned up. Please see WikiProject Highways for tips on how to make this page more uniformed to other highway articles. This article also has several POV problems that need to be resolved. PRueda29 19:16, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] map
We need a map for this and related articles. – Kaihsu 13:27, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Quellon
I question the fact that the highway ends in Quellon. Quellon is on an island in southern Chile, and is not connected to the mainland by any roads. --Hetar 18:10, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
For what it's worth, the 2005 edition of Turistel Sur, the southern edition of a Chilean tourist publication, states Quellon is the "terminal de la ruta Panamericana". Quellon is on a large island, but there is a ferry service running every 30 minutes, 24 hours a day, all year long between the mainland and island parts of the Pan-American. So I'd believe it's considered the end of the route despite being on an island. Chile's Carretera Austral also has sections that require ferry rides, but Villa O'Higgins is still considered the end of that road. TertX 21:12, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] New Mexico
"In May of 1946, the State Highway Commission was requested by the U.S. 85 International Association to designate U.S. 85 as the Pan—American Central Highway between Edmonton, Canada, and Mexico City. No official action resulted from this request."
From page 36 of [1] --SPUI (T - C) 23:49, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] US Segment
I thought that the coastal highway (101 in California, etc) was officially designated as part of the Pan-American? I havent looked this up but its cited often enough in things I've read that I was a little surprised to see this article say there is no official route in the US. Murple 06:48, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
