Talk:P-80 Shooting Star

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Do any of you know the wing loading for P-80. It would be good if it's P-80A.

Thank You.

Contents

[edit] Notes

The original version of this article is below:

Lockheed Chief Pilot Milo Garrett Burcham, age 41, was killed at 5:11 PM on Friday, 10/20/1944 while flying the second production prototype YP-80 aircraft. He took off from Lockheed Air Terminial (now the Pasadena/Burbank airport), flamed out on take off and crashed into a gravel pit in North Hollwood. He purposely directed his aircraft away from populated areas in an effort to bring it down away from houses. My Uncle, the late Gene Gerow, a TWA check pilot in Connies, said he was on the ramp that day, and let Milo take off before him. Gene may have been one of the last people to talk to Milo in this world.

As it says in the Book of John, "Man hath no greater love than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

(Notes by Mike Gerow, San Diego, CA)

[edit] Units

In what units should thrust be written? In units of mass (e.g. kg or lb) or in units of force (e.g kN or lbf). I am a bit confused because of the pound-force. Best regards. --XJamRastafire 03:08, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)~

As kg and lb

I prefer to list thrust in lb and kN rather than in kilograms. It seems more appropriate. -- ArgentLA 23 Dec 2004

Thrust is a force and thus measured in newtons. (Pound-force and kilopond (kilogram-force) were used historically, too, but are not SI units and thus obsolete.) --172.183.240.241 21:25, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Both pounds-force and kilograms-force are still in use. And historically, most rockets in both the U.S. and Russian space program were originally measured in one or the other of these units, and the original measurement should be retained as a good indication of the precision of the measurement and as a check on the correctness of the SI values which are necessarily conversions by someone. And the SI units are newtons, not Newtons. It's pretty weird that you use both the kilopond and kilogram-force names of that unit, and link the article titled "Kilogram-force" to your kilopond rather than to your kilogram-force. Gene Nygaard 21:48, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Kiloponds are officially obsolete since 1978, and they had replaced the kilogram-force long before that - my link deliberately uses the least obsolete name. --172.183.240.241 23:44, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
First of all, whether they are called kiloponds or kilograms-force is mostly a matter of geography, not of chronology.
Second, I have no idea what event of 1978 you imagine to be significant.
Note that kilograms-force have never been a part of the International System of Units, and have never been on the lists of units acceptable for use with the SI. The SI was introduced in 1960.
But the one thing that you don't seem to understand is that there is no general requirement that we use the International System of Units.
The units used to measure thrust are not in general regulated. There are a number of various types of standards-setting bodies which might throw in their two cents worth on this issue, but none of them has plenary, worldwide uthority in this area.
Some activities are regulated, and do require certain units--but this is not one of them. Some of the most heavily regulated areas deal with the sale of goods; but this discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with that field of activity. Note that there is nowhere in the world where kilograms-force are legal units for the sale of goods by weight. There is nowhere in the world where pounds-force are legal units for the sale of goods by weight. There is nowhere in the world where newtons are legal units for the sale of goods by weight. But both pounds and kilograms are legal for the sale of goods in the United States, for example. In the U.K. too, so far. And kilograms, at least, are legal for this purpose throughout the world.
Kilograms-force were the usual, customary units used for thrust in the Russian space program into the late 1980s or early 1990s, around the time of the breakup of the Soviet Union, though if anything that might have only slowed the changeover. Even today, I have seen several signs that kilograms-force remain the primary units for this purpose in the Chinese space program. Pounds force, of course, remain in use in the aerospace industry in the United States. Check the web sites of some of the engine manufacturers, for example.
But as I pointed out before, even if everybody involved in making these measurements were to instantaneously drop every other unit, and from today on never use anything but newtons, pounds force and kilograms force are still very relevant because they were the units in which many of the historical vehicles were measured. It isn't even possible to go back and remeasure most of them in newtons, even if anybody were inclined to embark on such a fool's mission. So they still very much have a place in Wikipedia. Gene Nygaard 04:36, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dimensions

I've put the dimensions in a new table at the bottom of the page, with both the XP-80 and the P-80A's dimensions, for comparison. (Both the old and new tables are at User:Willy Logan/P-80 dimensions temp.) This isn't standard, but it's useful to see how the sizes of the two versions compared. The change of engine prompted a significant redesign of the aircraft. I think it might also be instructive to include dimensions for the T-33 and/or F-94, although I don't plan on doing that right now. Willy Logan 21:18, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dead link

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

maru (talk) contribs 00:17, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] rewrite

The timeline became a bit convoluted in the telling of who was killed flying what and when. My rewrite tried to simplify that and restore the chronology, also reducing the number of dangling short phrases. There were a few minor inaccuracies, also corrected. Most of the material seems to have come from Joe Baugher, a good source, but Baugher got his material (some of it word for word) from Dorr. So I went to Dorr for reference during the re-write.--Buckboard 14:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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