User talk:Owain

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[edit] Paul Flynn

Excelent point on Paul Flynn. I've done the easy thing and reversed my edit. Niall123 20:57, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:George Street Bridge2.jpg

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[edit] Aberdyfi

I cannot accept your reverts to the Aberdyfi web site.

Please see the National Assembly document at http://new.wales.gov.uk/topics/localgovernment/localauthorities/gwyneddcouncil/?lang=en) as I assume that even you would accept that the National Assembly is more authoritative than Gwynedd Council (an organisation you normally attach little credance to considering your previous edits!)

Also see the BBC site http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northwest/sites/aberdyfi/

-- Maelor  14:15, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

There is clearly an anglicised name (i.e. Aberdovey). I attach absolutely no authority to the "National Assembly". Their job is not to assign place names. Even the Royal Mail post town is ABERDOVEY. Given the obvious existence of an English-language name, that is what should be used on the English-language Wikipedia. I am also contemplating a move request back to the correct English-language name. Owain (talk) 14:21, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I have reverted a recent edit you made to the article Atlantic Ocean. You did not provide an edit summary, and I could not determine whether the edit was vandalism or a constructive contribution. In the future, please use edit summaries. A link to the edit I have reverted can be found here: link. If you believe this edit should not have been reverted, please contact me.  Maelor  16:51, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Give the edit-stalking a rest and actually READ the edit. Jeez! Owain (talk) 16:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I protected the article as I see otherwise fine editors on the verge of breaking the three revert rule, please take it as a 'cool down' signal, I don't see any pointers in the Manual of Style, where's best to resolve the issue. --Alf ^melmac 17:41, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

It's OK, I knew I was approaching 3RR and had no intention of breaching it; it's just a shame it's protected with the inconsistent country names that I was trying to fix! Owain (talk) 18:46, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Monmouthshire

Yeah, I was humming and hah-ing about putting Mon in the table at Administrative counties of England, as we have pretty well established it was (in law, anyway) until 1974, but it's unfortunately not on the map. Anyway you've saved me the bother. I altered the figures for 1961 to take out the county borough of Newport (VoB includes county boroughs in admin counties) Lozleader 20:41, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I think we should get Morwen to put it in the map! So the VoB figures include CBs in a population figure for an area that clearly says "administrative county"... interesting! Owain (talk) 20:44, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I know, it's annoying. I believe they have digitised the whole county census reports which include the administrative county and "associated" CBs. Fortunately the subtraction isn't too difficult with a spreadsheet. Lozleader 20:47, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

It seems to be a result of its database system liking hierarchy - and anyway the pop figures of admin counties without the respective county boroughs are not particularly interesting from a population growth point of view. Generally VoB is very useful but it has quite a lot of problems in its digitisation of Youngs that I've noticed - and they are naturally more interested in the statistics side of things - you get odd things like this there. I would love to make that map, but unfortunately I had a hard disk crash and lost all my stuff. Morwen - Talk 19:04, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Info Box - Llandudno

Hello Owain, You added an 'info box' to the Llandudno page June 2005, so I thought to ask you about it. I am an English speaking resident of Llandudno but (like most of us) I know perfectly well how to pronounce the name of the town. If a reader is a trained linguist he probably also knows how to pronounce it. However, if he is not, I very much doubt the IPA, which is now infecting the first two lines of many Welsh location articles, will be of any use whatsoever. I am not too bright when it comes to wiki infoboxes but would it be possible to provide for 'pronunciation' and therby get the IPA out of that crucial opening paragraph? Regards, NoelWalley 18:20, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

That is an interesting idea, perhaps an optional IPA field could be added to the infoboxes. As they are standard across the UK, it may be worth proposing the idea at Wikipedia:WikiProject UK geography. Owain (talk) 18:30, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Split/merges

I don't know if you saw this, but I outlined some principles on Talk:East Riding of Yorkshire about when I think articles about local government areas should clearly be split - we ended up splitting some Scottish articles before under those principles : Aberdeenshire, Moray and Renfrewshire. The idea is that that where there is a break in continuity of usage of a name, and also where there is a substantial difference in the territories that the two different times refer to, it would make sense from an encyclopedic point of view to split articles. This would lead to splitting the articles on Flintshire, Denbighshire and Monmouthshire into two: one covering the unitary authority by that name, and another covering the - on the basis that the names were in disuse between 1974 and 1996, and the modern principal areas are so different that they cannot reasonably regarded as a restoration, but rather the re-use of an old name. On this basis, we would keep the articles on Carmarthenshire, Pembrokeshire, and Anglesey as single articles. I am open-minded as to where the articles should be and how they should be disambiguation.

Ceredigion presents a problem however. Under the principles above Cardiganshire and Ceredigion would be merged. I don't see that renamings are terribly significant: we wouldn't after all, have separate articles about the county of Anglesey and the county of Ynys Môn. Morwen - Talk 12:11, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I suggested an idea a while ago that the main page could have three sections in the main Xshire article, with summarised information on administrative, ceremonial and traditional. Then in each section have the standard Main article: Xshire (administrative), Main article: Xshire (ceremonial) and Main article: Xshire (traditional) at the beginning of each section. It may be a hard job to go around and fix all the links (esp. when the target can't be inferred from the context) so I reckon this might be a good solution. Owain (talk) 08:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I would have to know more exactly how this would be implemented to say specifically. It could easily de-emphasise the continuity of the pre-1889 geographic counties with the 1889-1974 geographic counties. I wonder if it might be a good idea to make a draft of how this would be implemented at a few articles: maybe Warwickshire, Wiltshire and Worcestershire? Morwen - Talk 10:57, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, having looked at the Worcestershire thing, that is effectively was I was afraid of, that it totally ignores the former geographic county and kind of pretends that no local government existed prior to 1888. Additionally, what would be the point of having two separate articles Worcestershire (ceremonial) and Worcestershire (administrative) when the ceremonial county has the same borders as the current non-metropolitan county? Morwen - Talk 16:35, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Well it's a work in progess! The '(traditional)' page will contain the pre-1888 information and certainly in this case the ceremonial is the same as the non-metro version, but that isn't always the case. It depends if it would be a good idea to have a uniform set of articles even if they refer to the same area. At this rate I'm starting to think that keeping everything in one article is preferable! Owain (talk) 09:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd certainly agree for the W counties. How would you feel about having an article like User:Morwen/Flintshire (historic) separate from the article about the 1996 Flintshire? Morwen - Talk 09:51, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Might be a good idea, but again you get a context problem: Which article does say, Connah's Quay link to? It's in both the historic county and UA area. There's no problem in the infobox, but in the general article body you'd have to choose. We may end up opening up another edit war! Owain (talk) 10:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

That's a tricky one. I'd prefer to avoid having wording like "in the principal area of Flintshire and in the historic county of Flintshire". We can avoid that by talking about it being an urban district in Flintshire (historic) and then part of X district in the county of Clwyd - that gives an excuse to link to Flintshire (historic) in the main body without the prose sounding odd. Morwen - Talk 10:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, that is the wording that Britannica uses. Although we don't necessarily need to use it, because using infoboxes allows a generic description in the opening sentence while leaving the finer points to the box. Your wording suggests that either urban districts are current local government entities, or that Flintshire as an ancient county is tied to an extinct local government area. My other concern is that if not all articles are going to be split, then this may cause more confusion than it is trying to solve. Owain (talk) 10:55, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Your example differs slightly as Wrexham isn't in modern Denbighshire: if you look up Denbigh itself it says "historic and present county of Denbighshire". The thing is, the Monmouthshire, Flintshire and Denbighshire articles are already split, it's just that the splits happen to share the same page at the moment. When looking at the 13 counties as a set, having a Denbighshire (historic) but not a Pembrokeshire (historic) isn't terribly tidy, I must agree - but I think it's tidier than the current situation overall. Morwen - Talk 11:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Laws in Wales Act

ISTR you had a sourcetext of that somewhere online? Can't find link - can you link to it from Laws in Wales Acts?. Morwen - Talk 18:18, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] infobox

hi! can you tell me how to insert infobox????????

thanks Sushant gupta 10:34, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Which infobox are you after? If you are new to them just copy the code form another page that has one and change the values in the name=value pairs. Owain (talk) 10:40, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Riot Act

How can the riot act be read 30-odd years after its repeal? :-) --Philbarker 21:36, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Notice the cunning use of templates to make it read every day! Owain (talk) 08:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought was clever. --Phil 09:19, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Date of City Status in Bristol

Hope my slight change in wording is an improvement, feel free to revert if it's not accurate.--Philbarker 21:36, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] UK geography COTM

The WP:UK geo collaboration of the month for October 2006 is Rutland. 80N 21:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC) (P.S., if you don't want to continue getting COTM updates, just change your settings at WP:UK geo.)

[edit] Flag on Gareth David-Lloyd

Hi, Owain. I noticed that you removed the Welsh flag from the infobox at Gareth David-Lloyd. I had copied it from Eve Myles when I made the page. Is there a reason it shouldn't be there? I've put a note up at Talk:Gareth David-Lloyd, but I didn't know whether you had kept that on your watchlist or not. I'll see you there! —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:09, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Atlantic Ocean query re: United Kingdom

Back in August, you changed the ports & harbours section to the UK for each of the cities listed within it rather than the smaller countries for consistency. I respect the need for consistency but would like to point out that if you follow the links to those cities, they all mention the constituent country they're within, and some don't mention the United Kingdom in the intro paragraph or even intro section, aside from the infobox listing the UK as the sovereign state under the constituent country. Most of the cities they're twinned with, if you follow those links, also list the constituent country rather than UK beside the city name.

The UK is definitely a country, Number 10 defining it as four countries within a country, so both Aberdeen, Scotland and Aberdeen, United Kingdom are correct. In fact, a brief google is in your favour, claiming 1.27 million hits for Aberdeen, Scotland, 415,000 hits for Aberdeen, United Kingdom and 960,000 hits for Aberdeen, UK. combining the latter is significantly more than the first result, but shows the nomenclature divide is not clear.

We're both correct, but Wikipedia tends toward referring to the city and constituent country more often (providing consistency), and I like to present additional information as long as it is correct and relevant (specifying England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales).

I won't edit war. I'd like to change those items, but am open to being significantly convinced of your view, and will abide by consensus (I'll ask other good faith editors of the article to chime in if I feel motivated enough). TransUtopian 15:51, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The reason the articles don't mention it in the opening paragraph is because it was moved to the infobox to stop the kind of pointless edit wars you're describing. Twin town articles should link to the soverign state just like they do with every other soverign state - that would be proper consistency. Owain (talk) 14:30, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. Okay, my misunderstanding is more basic then. I clicked on constituent country for the first time and... wow. I can glimpse the reason for the confusion and differences of opinion now, for example the first paragraph of Distinctive status. Do you know of any books that delve into the subject but from a layperson's perspective? I still think of London, England and Aberdeen, Scotland just as Los Angeles, California... hmm...

In town twinning, there's "Los Angeles, California, United States" and "Montreal, Quebec, Canada". Granted, states and prvinces are not equal to constituent countries, but would "Aberdeen, Scotland, United Kingdom" be an acceptable compromise? They're both in lists.

I have a feeling the answer will be an emphatic no, due to the intense feelings and my lack of full understanding of this issue. My desire is merely for more information, which mentioning both Scotland and the United Kingdom in that structure would provide, and what I'm accustomed to associating. I'm an American with misconceptions I have to keep correcting, though this issue is clearly an... unclear and divisive issue at home as well. TransUtopian 11:13, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright problems with Image:Newport Bridge.jpg

— Indon (reply) — 16:15, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unspecified source for Image:Newport High Street station2.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Newport High Street station2.jpg. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify the link to the source of this image. Could you please provide that? Thank you. — Indon (reply) — 10:34, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Newport images

Could you please ask the photographer to email permissions(at)wikimedia(dot)org confirming that he has agreed to release these photographs under CC-by-SA 2.5? We need to do this to have the information on file and to confirm his identity. Thanks, --Robth^Talk 06:45, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright problems with Image:George Street Bridge.jpg

Thryduulf 15:33, 3 December 2006 (UTC)