Talk:Others (Lost)

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This page falls within the scope of the Lost WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve all Wikipedia articles relating to Lost. All information on future developments needs to follow the Lost policy regarding sources. Episode articles must comply with the Lost television series guidelines.

Contents 1 Episode Summaries/Character Synopsizes (Organization) 2 The Death of Shannon 3 The Other 48 Days 4 "Face of the enemy" 5 Encyclopedic? Notable? 6 Rewrite 7 Henry Gale / Wizard of Oz 8 Zeke 9 Verb Tense 10 An Other? 11 Michael? 12 Ms Klugh? Miss Klugh? Now it's Mrs 13 Excess of Original Research 14 "The Others" or "the Others"? 15 Anyone get this week's TV Guide? 16 New Pic 17 Pala Ferry 18 Encounters with the others: Ethan Rom 19 Ethan in an Early Episode 20 Add New Other 21 Pickett and Walt's Blood 22 "Him/He" statement removal 23 He/Him 24 Amelia 25 Connection with the outside world 26 Colleen 27 Karl an "Other"? 28 Mr. Friendly is pretty important... 29 Rousseau? 30 Update 31 Villain group? 32 Jason

[edit] Episode Summaries/Character Synopsizes (Organization)

For organizational purposes the "list of others" section should be for the character itself and not what the character has done in interaction with the castaways. However, the "Encounter" section should be used as a brief over-look at episodes involving the others and their interaction with the castaways. Be sure to organize the two when editing The Others.

Thanks

Also someone should take the time to reorganize Henry Gale. There is to much on the episode and not enough on the character. If someone gets the time please split this sub-article on Henry gale into two articles.

[edit] The Death of Shannon

The statement about Shannon being dead is not a truth. Shannon was shot, but there is no indication that she is the character who is killed (they could have been referring to Sawyer or Cindy instead).

The producers of the show confirmed she is dead.

she's been buried so I hope she's dead for her sake

[edit] The Other 48 Days

Is it necessary to have such long description of events from this episode on this page? There may well be a lot references to the 'Others' in the coming episodes, so going into so much detail about exact plot events would make the article to long winded. I'm not sure how you all might want it cutting back though, so I'm reluctant to have a go at doing it. Evil Eye 02:23, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

> I agree, about 90% of the info here is already in the season 1/2 summaries. Thus, I think this section should focus on theories of the others etc because the show has said very little so theres not much info anyway

Just my two cents

- Zakaloot

Unless said "theories of the others" are mainstream or confirmed, they are original research and belong on the Lostpedia site.

[edit] "Face of the enemy"

In the other 48 days, when the tail section survivors kill some of the Others do you see their faces (of the Others). I live in Ireland and can't see season 2 till next year

Yes, you do see their faces. They look just like ordinary people. Phoenix-forgotten 04:46, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Encyclopedic? Notable?

I'm wondering if "the Others" from Lost really merit their own article (It seems like there's been a cambrian explosion of Lost articles lately). Anyone want to make a case for it? For now I'm just going to move this to [Others (Lost)]. There's at least one other fantasy/scifi usage of the term "Others" with a capital "O" that I know of (the ice-demons of A Song of Ice and Fire), and I'm sure there are more I don't know about somewhere. Phoenix-forgotten 04:51, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I'd have to agree with you to an extent. What is the point of this article? As it stands, it's a narrative of every encounter the survivors have had with the Others, which I think is overly detailed and doesn't get the point across, which should be "this is what is known about the Others." The best way to go about making this more encyclopedic would be to look at Wikipedia entries of other fictional groups from tv series or movies, such as the entry on Klingons. As opposed to detailing every Star Trek scene ever depicting a Klingon, the article states that Klingons are fictional, and then proceeds to detail what is known about Klingons (as though they are real), using episodes to back up these "facts." Granted a lot more is known about Klingons than the Others, but then once we've crafted a concise encyclopedic article, we can determine if this topic does, in fact, need its own article.

If anything, a first step might be to cut out the fluff, because the descriptions of the encounters with the Others are getting longer and filled with unnecessary story support to set the scene for the encounters. This is expected in an episode guide, but is just diluting the integrity of this article. Really, we should be asking ourselves, "What did this encounter tell us about the Others?" and then write about that. Juliamae 15:11, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I re-looked at this article this afternoon, and my thoughts are that it should be deleted. Almost all of the information included is already in the episode summaries section. And as it is, it's poorly written and bloated. Anyone want to nominate it for AfD? Danflave 17:54, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't think the article should be deleted yet. I know it is very bad, but I do feel that as the series progresses a good article could be created on this topic. For now, a major re-write is in order to make it encyclopedic. I'm a bit reluctant to do that right now as I know the article contains spoilers for what I've seen and also is such a huge job I think someone with more detailed knowledge than me is needed to sift through all the stuff there already. Evil Eye 18:13, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I think that if this article was rewritten the right way, there wouldn't be enough information, nor a large enough split from the information in the Lost article, to consitute its own article. So putting it up to vote is probably a good idea, although it would be interesting to see it (or an "Others" section on the Lost article) evolve into something more informative. Juliamae 18:22, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

• I'd say the article should remain. While it currently may be a retread of material from the main LOST articles, "The Others" do appear to be a "group character" appearing with increasing regularity and importance to the series, and will likely have much more revealed about them soon— as a new plot-line has kicked off, with Jack apparently planning to "train an army" to go up against them. I agree that the article needs to be trimmed back to basics, to aim for a more "biographic" format, that discusses the Others' characteristics, and known members, as presented on the series. My personal speculation is that they are The Dharma Initiative's researchers (and children) who have "gone native." However, until such a link is revealed or referenced elsewhere, it wouldn't be appropriate to add. If no one else steps up to the plate, I may take a stab at a rewrite. —LeFlyman 18:50, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Even though the's little info on them, The Others are a vital part of the Lost mythos, and while article requires work. It shouldn't be discarded just because some people think there are too many Lost articles.--Gonzalo84 02:35, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

This article desperately needs a complete rewrite. The way it is now, this article is a synopsis of the episode synopses we already have. My suggestion is that we divide the article into these sections: Ethan Rom, Mr. Friendly, The tail section experience, and Henry Gale. In each section we describe the events The Others had in those particular story lines. For example, in Ethan Rom, we describe how he kidnapped Claire and Charlie. The lead should describe how they first came to learn about The Others through Danielle. If you have other ideas please post them here. Jtrost (^T | C | _#) 03:13, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Hear, hear! I don't even like making edits to it now in the form it's in, and do so only to remove the most glaring of issues/errors. As with the character bios, it appears that people have a driving need to summarize the episodes again and again. I like the structure you propose, in that it gets away from a chronological focus (Season 1, Season 2), and divides it into chunks related to the Others whom we have "met" so far. --PKtm 03:17, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I took a stab at rewriting the article. However, I would like someone to copyedit it. I think it's a huge step in the right direction, though. Jtrost (^T | C | _#) 02:01, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Henry Gale / Wizard of Oz

Why is there any doubt that Henry Gale's name is a reference to the Wizard of Oz? There's no "may" about it. I don't understand the hostility to including this information. We know that the name of the main character in the Oz books is named Dorothy Gale (her surname is revealed in the third Oz book, "Ozma of Oz"), and we know her closest relative is her Uncle Henry. We also know that off-course hot-air balloons figure prominently in Oz and that the Henry Gale character in Lost claims to have been blown off-course in his balloon. Do the producers have to beat us over the head with it? They don't make mistakes like that. It's obviously intentional, and it's worth including here because it is strong evidence that Gale is lying about something. Whether or not he's truly an Other, he's hiding something. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.175.61.17 (talk • contribs) March 2, 2006.

Everything that you just said is considered original research, which is strictly forbidden in Wikipedia articles. However, on the March 2 podcast, Damon and Carlton said that this is a reference to The Wizard of Oz. That doesn't necessarily mean that it should be included here, though. We must first decide if this information is encyclopedic. I will add this information to Henry's bio on the character page because we include name orgins for other characters, however I do not think it's noteworthy enough to include everywhere we mention Henry's name. Jtrost (^T | C | _#) 14:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but has it been confirmed that he is indeed an Other? I believe he is, but it's just speculation until revealed as truth. Duke Starhopper 19:32, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure why Henry Gale is listed here at all. The way the article is written, it takes the view that he is an Other, and somebody has added a comment that we shouldn't mention that he hasn't been confirmed as an Other...which makes no sense at all. If Gale is kept, it seems to me that the article should be broken into two sections: "Confirmed Others" and "Suspected Others". Thoughts? -- MisterHand 15:54, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

When I rewrote this article, I defined "The Others" as such: Danielle Rousseau coined the term The Others, which the survivors of Flight 815 have adopted to describe anyone on the island they have not previously met. In addition, the episode One of Them built up the idea that Henry is an Other, so unless that is disproven I'd like to keep him here. Jtrost (^T | C | _#) 16:05, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

In that case, why isn't Desmond listed as an Other? ~~

Desmond was never identified as an Other by anyone. An Other is identified by the characters in the show, whether they are correct or not. If they (Danielle, Sayid, Eko) think that this guys is an Other, then it should be assumed for encyclopedic purposes so far as any other fictional topic would be....... until futher notice. ~~

[edit] Zeke

Maybe we should add the fact that Mr Friendly is know as Zeke by some people e.g. sawyer —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.217.89.117 (talk • contribs) March 3, 2006.

This information is already on the Characters of Lost page. There's no need for duplicate information. Jtrost (^T | C | _#) 13:15, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Friendly is the "official" character name. Zeke is just a nickname, like "Shaft" for Eko or "Rambina" for AnaLu--Gonzalo84 02:28, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

The page explains Sawyer's choice of the name Zeke by saying it is the name of a stereotypical rustic. However, because Wizard of Oz has been referenced many other times in the show I believe that Zeke is a reference to the cowardly lion from the Wizard of Oz. I didn't want to go ahead and change it because I couldn't find any evidence to prove or disprove that Zeke is the name of a "stereotypical rustic", so does anyone know where that came from? --IAmUnimaginative 09:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Verb Tense

The verb tense in these articles are all mixed between present tense and past tense.. we should standardize a tense and stick with it. I say past tense, since its a part of a story that has been told already. Any objections?

Yes, many objections. See the discussion at Talk:Lost (TV series)/Present tense. Use of present tense is standard when discussing works of fiction and works of art in general. --PKtm 16:29, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

OK, I can handle that.. we are gonna have to make some edits here then...

[edit] An Other?

Just read this article and the phrase 'an Other' strikes me as extremely inelegant, surely 'one of The Others' would be a better way to go?

I agree. I think they should be referred to as "the Others" in plural form, and "one of the Others" in singular. -AWB

[edit] Michael?

Should we mark him down as possibly being one of the Others, or wait for more "proof"?

Any sign at all would be a good start. -- Happydrifter

How could he be one of the Others? Wouldn't Walt know? He may collaborate with them but it makes no sense that he would be one of them. My theory - the Others are the remains of the Dharma Initiative Operatives who have become a sort of crazy Neitzschean cult because of their isolation on the Island. We know the Dharma Initiative are a sociological-anthropological group exploring human behavioural patterns. That's why they have become obsessed with children and think they can judge people as 'good' and 'bad'. On the other hand, its possible I should just get out more. ThePeg 11.7.2006

[edit] Ms Klugh? Miss Klugh? Now it's Mrs

There is a continuity problem here between the Others article and the Season 2 episode synopses article. What is the correct character name?

Also, what evidence is there that she is the leader of the Others' camp? Mr Friendly called her over to Michael and he still seemed to be in charge.

The way Mr. Friendly asked Alex to go "get her". As if she was of importance. She is in charge and that is, though unsaid, very clear.

The correct character name is "Ms. Klugh", because that's the name that has been given on two ABC press releases. To infer that she's in charge is Original research. --Kahlfin 05:46, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Excess of Original Research

Slight rant:

This article, while containing much that is interesting, has become cruftified with Original Research— content that has no place on Wikipedia. For editors who are adding such material, please understand that while fans may enjoy reading theories and speculation, without verifiable sources, including such guesseses in encyclopedic articles can be a wasted effort: they'll eventually be deleted— if not by me, then by the many other experienced editors who are aiming to keep articles in line with Wikipedia policy. —Leflyman^Talk 06:24, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Theories and fanon should be kept on the actual Lostpedia website. That's what it's there for. Levid37 23:40, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Well I think some 'original research' should be included- its the entire point of lost. The most common theories should get a passing mention.--Josquius 21:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "The Others" or "the Others"?

This article is inconsistent in whether the word "the" in "the Others" should be capitalized or not. My own inclination is that it shouldn't be. Anyone disagree? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 05:06, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Upon reflection I'm just going to be bold and change all the superfluous capitals to lowercase. There's no need to capitalize "the good guys" or "the island" either. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 05:31, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anyone get this week's TV Guide?

There's a good picture of the Others posing that I think could be used for this article.--CyberGhostface 19:24, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Pic

I uploaded a new pic for the main article. I cropped and resized it a couple of times. I thought the picture was too wide so I removed the last guy who as far as I know isn't that big of a character. If you want to see the different versions, then check out the previous versions on the file.--CyberGhostface 02:20, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pala Ferry

Are we sure that the jetty that the captives are taken to is in any way related to the 'Pala Ferry'. And before we say 'what else could it be?', remember, this is Lost. DJ Clayworth 21:05, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

There's a sign on the dock that says Pala Ferry? Jon Hart 22:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Encounters with the others: Ethan Rom

Shouldn't the whole business with Ethan Rom be added to 'Encounters with the others'. Ethan was an other, and they sure as hell 'encountered' him. Should we add it?

[edit] Ethan in an Early Episode

I'm not skilled at editing wikipedia pages, but I think this deserves to be in the article. I am as yet unsure of its significance. In an early episode (I believe it is episode 4, or maybe episode 5) when John Locke is in the Australian walkabout tour office, the tour guide he is talking to explains that he cannot go because he is disabled. Ethan Rom then wheels John Locke out of the office.

maybe it would be best 2 delete encounters with the others and put the events in the chracters bio's, there are more encounters withe the others that aren't recorded. --82.36.192.224 15:05, 30 August 2006 (UTC) Cleveland

[edit] Add New Other

A Character that has been named on the future episode list her name is juliet --Maestr06 13:11, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

It has been confirmed in interviews that Juliet is actually a survivor of the crash that has just been ignored up to this point. I'm sorry, I don't have a source off the top of my head. But it doesn't matter, because even if what I just said wasn't true, we couldn't consider Juliet an "Other" until a source told us that she was an Other. --Kahlfin 20:24, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pickett and Walt's Blood

I cannot exactly recall, but didn't Walt's mother die from a blood disorder? If so that is worth mentioning in the section on Pickett where it mentions his unknown motives for taking Michael's blood. Atfyfe 20:17, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Him/He" statement removal

The following should be taken out:

""He/Him" is also mentioned directly by the current occupant of The Swan at any one time. When Locke first enters the hatch, he is confronted by Desmond who asks "Are you him?" followed by "What did one snowman say to the other snowman?". Likewise, when Desmond is rescued and taken in to the hatch by Kelvin, the first questions he is asked are the same, and it appears that "He/Him" is in a position of authority over the proceedings in the hatch."

Because it has nothing to do with the Others. I belive "he/him" in this case is mearly refering to the Swan's replacement, not a leader.

[edit] He/Him

Has "He" been confirmed as a character? because I was thinking that the dialogue from the episodes may have been miss interpreted. What I mean is when Ethan and Tom mention "him" they are actually refering to "Henry Gale" meaning "Henry" is "He". When "henry" was being held in the hatch and he says "If I told you about them, you have no idea what he'll do", and "he'll kill me" he may have been saying that as an excuse for not revealing any nformation about "the others".

Basically I can see two possible senarios:

1. "He/Him" is an as yet unnamed/unseen character and is the leader of the others or is at least someone that "Henry" fears and the current article is correct.

or

2. "Henry" is the leader of the others and the comments he made in the hatch were excuses.

I see no definitive evidence one way or the other so unless I missed something (completely possible) it seems that the "He/Him" section of the article is trying to pass off assumption as fact. Doc711 22:26, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Amelia

What's the source on her being Juliet's mother? There's nothing referencing this in the short scene in ATOTC; I presumed she was simply an elderly neighbour... Radagast 19:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Connection with the outside world

Isn't it likely that the others aren't at all isolated on the island? They probably make trips to and from the civilized world and clearly have communication (how else would Juliet have all that information about Jack?). I think the opener of this article should take that into account. -VJ 17:43, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

At the time of your comment, no, it would have been original research. But as of the airing of The Glass Ballerina, it's been confirmed, and yes, I definitely agree that we should add something to the beginning of the article. --Kahlfin 20:21, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

To say that they had contact with the outside world when Juliet had that huge file on Jack containing information that nobody on the island knew or talked about would hardly have been original research (no moreso than most of the content of these articles), but yeah, it's moot now. -VJ 04:52, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

It would be original research to say that they have "back and forth" contact with the outside world. All we know is that Juliet had a file on Jack, which could have been comprised of papers which were already on the plane (like the autopsy report would have been transported with his father's coffin). And as for the "modern" news, all that indicates is that they're able to receive U.S. television broadcasts. That's all incoming information, with no indication of anything outgoing, so I'd be uncomfortable with the phrasing "contact with the outside world," since that implies two-way communication. --Elonka 05:32, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Colleen

It has said that her and Pickett are romantically involved, but I recalled Colleen comming out of a building saying Daddy, and then Pickett kisses her on the check. Did I mis-hear something? Please answer thanks. Danny.

• I'm pretty sure it's Danny, although I also thought it was Daddy originally. Colleen doesn't look like she couldn't be his daughter, that would make Pickett pretty old though. I don't know. ShadowUltra 20:16, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
  • According to the closed-caption subtitles, she said "Danny", and was telling him about how she was to take the Galaga to go find the other boat. As far as being romantically involved, I'm not willing to signoff on that yet. Yes, they obviously have a "kiss on the cheek" connection, but that doesn't mean romance -- they might be family. --Elonka 08:36, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Karl an "Other"?

an official podcast as stated that Karl is one of them.82.36.192.224 14:26, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

actually it said the complete opposite of that?? Jwebby91 15:27, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mr. Friendly is pretty important...

i think at some point, he should get a page of his own. he's been on the show in many episodes, and at some point i think he should get his own page (he might get a flashback episode for example). not now, but i'm just putting the idea out there. Jwebby91 15:27, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Our consensus agreement is that characters get their own page if they are either main characters (per the ABC listings) or if they've had at least one flashback giving some insight on their backstory. This is why Danielle Rousseau doesn't have her own page yet. And neither of those criteria applies to Mr. Friendly/Tom at the moment. -- PKtm 16:49, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with PKtm, and would add that it's not just about whether or not a character "deserves" a page, but whether or not there's sufficient information that it needs to be split out separately. In other words, even if we moved him to his own page, we still don't have much more than a paragraph of information about him. If he becomes more important to the plot later, there will be more information, and then it'll make more sense to split it out to a separate page. --Elonka 20:42, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rousseau?

Should Rousseau really have a blurb on the "Others" page. It's pretty well established that she crashed on the island as well. If it turns out that she really is a spy for the Others, then she can be returned, but unless that happens, she should be removed from this page. Wackojacko1138 22:53, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Update

shhouldn't sum1 update characters like tom. Oh and in the 9th october podcast lidelof confirmed Karl is a "Legitamate Other" 82.36.192.224 17:26, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Villain group?

Should we have a category link to "villain groups"? They say that they are "the good guys", but I doubt it and I'm sure a lot of people will doubt it.

Also, on Lostpedia, they say that one of the nicknames for their village is "Mysteria Lane".- JustPhil 20:10, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

We don't know what the Others truly are and their intentions. I wouldn't go and call them villains just yet.

Also, Mysteria is a fancruft name and shouldn't be listed here.--CyberGhostface 00:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jason

I was watching Every Man for Himself on ABC full ep. streaming and I noticed another Other named Jason took part in Sawyer's "needle/bunny" torture scene. I'm pretty sure that he's the one who accompanies Pickett in the latest episode. Anyone object to me adding him in? YnoBluepages? 20:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm gonna revert because I found all that information on Jason on a legitimate source (the show). The actor I just Googled and the IMDB gave me his name. If anyone has a problem, please tell me before you change it again. YnoBluepages? 19:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, nev mind, I just added him to the "Less Important Others" section YnoBluepages? 20:01, 11 November 2006 (UTC)