Talk:Olive oil

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WikiProject Echo has identified Olive oil as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the Arabic language Wikipedia.

Olive oil is either included in the 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection or is a candidate for inclusion in the next version (the project page is at WPCD Selection). Please maintain high quality standards, and if possible stick to GFDL and GFDL-compatible images.

Olive oil was a central concept in Minoan culture of Crete, where it is thought to have roughly equated wealth.

Well. A central product, sure. And we can't read Linear A, so let's not get into 'concepts' of the Minoans. --MichaelTinkler

Oups! Sorry Michael! Just related what the people and exhibitions on the Knossos told me. Geez! --Anders Törlind

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I've noticed that canned sardines are often packed with olive oil. Should it be noted in the article that olive oil is useful as a preservative? --LostLeviathan 01:41, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• Canning is a preservative. Nach0king 23:55, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Neat trick? 2 Lots still needs to be done 3 A proposed outline 4 Olive oil in France 5 "Lucca Crown"? 6 Olive Oil Soap 7 Olive oil - used in cooking 8 Sydney Smith??? 9 The picture 10 Healthful? 11 Menorah 12 Canola Oil comparison 13 Herbs & Spices template 14 Density 15 Smoke point 16 Botulism 17 Conflict of Interest External Link

[edit] Neat trick?

How do you combine Extra Virgin with no more than 1% acidity with Virgin with no more than 2% acidity, and end up with Semi Fine with up to 3.3% acidity? Gene Nygaard 21:13, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Although I blew away some of the older verbiage--the words weren't in some very official-looking stuff--does the answer to your question come through? The previous error grew out of the confusion between 'virgin' as a manufacturing process versus 'virgin' on a consumer label, and the lack of the word 'refined'. Combining virgin oil with "olive oil refined from virgin oil" (in other words, not made from olive-pomace oil) gets you something you can sell with a grand label. The refined oil might have 0.1% acidity, which is how the arithmetic works out.

At least, that's my current understanding based on reading things written by marketing people, lawyer people, hybrid marketing/lawyer people, and authors of cookbooks. I may be confused.

I still don't think I've really captured some of these distinction in the main page, and I haven't put my citations in yet (which are mostly IOOC, the body that defines these things). Perhaps after I've been away from it for a few days, I'll revisit the language. Help is always appropriate.

DanielVonEhren 22:55, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lots still needs to be done

I re-arranged things (I still don't think the overall flow is right, but at least similar things are a little more grouped together, hanging out with their friends).

I (or whoever) still need to write:

• A paragraph on how olive oil is manufactured;
• A section on olive oil in history (it's more than the Minoans);
• A table on the grading and classification (I haven't put it in yet because I have to learn more about how make a table) (And Gene is right about the arithmetic absurdities);
• A table on the market for olive oil--where it comes from (Spain, as it turns out, even when it says Product of Italy), and what countries consume it (this information is available on the IOOC website, but I haven't gotten around to extracting it yet).

And I bet there's more. Thoughts?

DanielVonEhren 05:11, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] A proposed outline

I've tried to organize the knowledge about olive oil in way that's appropriate for an encyclopedia. Here's an outline I've come up with; feel free to beat up on it.

My organizing principle here is that if someone visits the olive oil Wiki, they most likely want to know what 'extra-virgin' means, then whether it's healthy, and so on. In other words, I've organized it around what visitors will want to read.

At the top, start with a link to the Wiki Cookbook for olive oil recipes.

1. Commercial market for olive oil
   1. Consumer classification. Similar to the current article, only better
   2. How olive oil is made. A narrative of the common way to manufacture olive oil
   3. The olive oil market.
      1. Marketing bodies. What organizations exist, and are they official, quasi-governmental, or self-appointed
      2. World-wide production. Who makes it
      3. World-wide consumption. Who eats it
2. Olive oil and health. Current research and thought on whether olive oil is good for you (or at least less bad than all of those other oils).
3. Olive oil in history
   1. Biological origins and spread of the olive tree. Probably a brief summary, and a pointer over to the olive tree article (which, by the way, needs work)
   2. Cultural significance of olive oil. It's more than just food
      1. Minoans. The Room of the Olive Press at Knossos, and so on
      2. Greeks. Athena, the Olympics, the City Olive, and so on
      3. Bible. The symbolism and imagery of olive oil in the Old and New Testaments
      4. Romans. The Imperial Olive
      5. Other cultures. Being a whitebread middle-middle-middle American male :-), I have no idea, but there are surely others. For example, do olives figure prominently in the Koran?

Thoughts?

DanielVonEhren 22:36, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

What about the saturated fat content in olive oil - I have found no reference to it and yet on my bottle it clearly states saturates 13g per 100 ml which is over the recommendation of no more than 5g per 100g.? Ian Lambert

[edit] Olive oil in France

Hello,

In the article, you say that there is no olive oil production in France, but we have, sorry ! I check the figures for production and let you know.

There is even an "AOC" (high quality standart label) for French olive oil.

--Penven 14:04, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Bonjour Penven

There are a few answers to your question. I think that I'm the one put 'nil' in, so let's see if we can make this better. The numbers in the table are just copied from the source--the IOOC has slightly different numbers. If you have a different source, you should "Be bold!" and adjust the table--with a footnote, of course. :-)

A second answer is that at least in my dialect of English, 'nil' isn't the same as 'none'. If we put in "less than 1%" is might capture it better. I live in California, not far from groves of olive trees, but the US is also listed as 'nil'. I was trying to say that we don't produce a lot, but we consume a lot.

The table tries to present 'big facts' without presenting too much detail. The line between those two goals could be drawn at a different place.

By the way, whether or not we make changes to the production table, if you could do the research on the meaning of 'AOC' classification, and how it relates to the IOOC standards, that would be a highly useful addition. :-)

DanielVonEhren 13:39, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Lucca Crown"?

Regarding this "second name" which is quite prominent in the first paragraph: 1) Is there *any* use of this name outside the poem/recipe mentioned? All google hits refer to that directly or indirectly. 2) Lucca is a specific type of olive (grown in Lucca, Italy), so it appears that "Lucca crown" means "finest oil made from Lucca olives" (or perhaps a typo for "Lucca grown", oil grown in Lucca?) in which case it can not be said that "lucca crown" is a synonym for "olive oil" any more than "bordeaux" is a synonym for "wine".

I propose that the reference to "lucca crown" be struck from the article, or moved to a position of less prominence. --Sysin 3 July 2005 21:12 (UTC)

Hey! Thanks for your message on my talk page. I'm not surprised that a Google search only finds references to "Lucca crown" which link back to the poem. Since the term was in use during the 19th century, it would likely not be properly indexed on the internet. "Lucca crown" is unlikely a typo for "Lucca grown" because the next line in Sydney Smith's poem contains the word "town", which rhymes with "crown" and not "grown". However, I will need to do more research on the etymology of that term before I can know definitively that it is used outside of the poem, and with significantly more prevalence. I've asked another Wikipedian who appears to be more familiar with gastronomy to respond here (give it maybe 2 or 3 days.) In the meantime, please feel free to move the reference to another place you feel is more appropriate. We can always change back to this version at a later time. --HappyCamper 3 July 2005 21:59 (UTC)

I agree, "grown" is an unlikely typo. Even if "Lucca crown" was a common term in the 19th century, did it refer to olive oil in general, or did it specifically refer to olive oil from Lucca?

Found elsewhere:

Re: crown as a verb - it just slapped me in the face when I reread the poem -

"Four times the spoon with oil of Lucca crown,
And twice with vinegar procured from town;"

in other words pour four spoons of olive oil and two spoons of vinegar over the other ingredients, the classic oil/vinegar proportion. "Crown" it with Lucca olive oil and vinegar. ... Mothperson 13:42, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

So I think that answers it. Noel (talk) 23:43, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Olive Oil Soap

Olive oil soap is tremendous stuff, it's dryer than other soaps, it cleans you without all the lather and supposedly it's better for your skin. I enjoy the sensation of it, once you go olive oil soap you don't go back. It can usually be found in middle eastern grocery stores.

• In Greece it sells for about 1€/kg; the same bars sell for $4/brick (about 200g I guess) in NYC "health food" stores. I know what I'm filling my suitcases with in my next trip.

[edit] Olive oil - used in cooking

When olive oil is used for deep frying, potato chips for example, how often can the olive oil be reused, how long can it be stored in a deep fryer, how can you tell if it needs replacing? --58.178.128.184 02:49, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

You shouldn't use straight olive oil for high heat frying. You can blend it up to about 50% with a more heat tollerant oil like soy, corn, peanut, or sunflower.

[edit] Sydney Smith???

Why is a link given to Sydney Smith's dressing? What make it more special, more worthy of a link than all of the hundreds of other salad dressing recipes containing olive oil? (or the thousands of recipes in general containing olive oil, for that matter...)

Its an remnant of the early history of the article, go a few edits back until you find references to "Lucca Crown". It's odd, but not very bothersome.Sysin 21:56, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The picture

What is the log-like thing in the bottom of the pictured container of olive oil?

I know what it looks like to me, but I have a Filthy Mind(tm). Perhaps a picture less suggestive of things scatalogical could be found?

I thought it looked like poop when I first opened the page.

See the high-res version at [1]. In front, I'm pretty sure it's a wedge of lemon or lime. Behind the wedge, I'm not so sure. At first I thought maybe it was a fish, but now I'm thinking it's something wrapped in a grape leaf...

[edit] Healthful?

Is healthful a real word? Shouldn't it be healthy? nick 17:15, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

To answer my own question almost instantly, it appears it is: [2]. I guess it must only be used in american english. nick 17:15, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Menorah

Are we sure that the hannukia has 7 branches? 8 nights of Channukah, plus the shammus really suggests 9 branches to me, and this fits my personal experience.

A hannukiah does have 9 branches. Bpsullivan 06:15, 18 April 2006

[edit] Canola Oil comparison

In the article, it says how Olive Oil's high monounsaturated fat content is considered healthy. Canola oil has nearly as much monounsaturated fat, along with more polyunsaturated fat, and a higher smoke point. I think that alternatives to this "healthy" conception of oil should be mentioned. Corn oil is similar as well, and maybe both articles should be expanded more throughly along with this one of course. 71.250.60.232 14:51, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Herbs & Spices template

I don't see what the Herbs & spices template has to do with Olive Oil. I understand that you can put herbs and spices into olive oil, but that's a pretty weak link imho.--Nicko 03:22, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm taking it out. --Dodiad 07:59, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Density

100 g olive oil = 90 ml??? It`s absurd! It means a density of 1.11 g·cm^-3, heavier than water, and olive oil would sink into! Olive oil mean density is more or less 0.92 g·cm^-3, so 100 g of olive oil = approx. 108 ml 212.51.52.8 22:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smoke point

From Smoke Point]:

The smoke point of an oil should be high when the oil is used for deep-fat frying or when it will be exposed alone on surfaces such as cookie sheets. [...]

Olive oil is particularly variable; higher quality cold-pressed grades have lower smoke points than cheaper solvent-extracted and refined grades. It is better not to use high-quality olive oil for deep frying—save it for your salads.

[edit] Botulism

From Botulism#Prevention:

Other origins of infection include garlic or herbs[4] stored covered in oil,[2] chile peppers, tomatoes [citation needed], improperly handled baked potatoes wrapped in aluminum foil [citation needed], and home-canned or fermented fish. Persons who do home canning should follow strict hygienic procedures to reduce contamination of foods. Oils infused with garlic or herbs should be refrigerated.

[edit] Conflict of Interest External Link

I didn't review the conflict of interest rules before I posted a link to a series of photographs that comprehensively document the journey of an olive through an olive mill from beginning to end on the "external link" portion. Please consider it. I'm the olive oil expert at Zingerman's Deli and photographed my time at an olive harvest in Paso Robles, CA. http://drygoodsnotes.blogspot.com

Solomonj 06:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)