Talk:Ohio

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Contents 1 Redundant table of facts 2 Region 3 Politics 4 Added Bellefontaine... 5 Date of statehood 6 Plaque on Wall Street 7 Ohio school districts 8 Bot for Ohio Townships Project 9 French and Indian War 10 Annual rain fall 11 Cities and towns cut 12 Naming convention 13 Important cities 14 Statistics in metric units 15 Featured article 16 Religion 17 Question: Amish/Pietist 18 State symbols 19 Mid west? 20 Climate 21 Unofficial motto (spam) 22 Senators 23 Vandalism 24 Speaking of vandalism 25 New Sports section added to updated Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format 26 Introductory Paragraph - midwest versus whatever

[edit] Redundant table of facts

There are two tables of facts here. One is redundant. -- Zoe 22:55, 31 December 2002

[edit] Region

On the issue of what region Ohio is in -- there are no hard-and-fast definitions of regions in the United States. Usually, Ohio is considered Midwestern, but there are plenty of people who believe Ohio is too far east to be in the Midwest. It's not incorrect to say that Ohio is in the northeast, well, because look at the map. And for some purposes Ohio has more in common with Pennsylvania than with Iowa. I'm not going to change this, but I just wanted to note that there is no definitive regional definition here. Acsenray 15:00, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I agree about the frailty of regional definitions. From my perspective, having spent the first 25 years living in Ohio--I always thought of the midwest as consisting of the states that were formed out of the Northwest Territory. West of that were the Great Plains states. I may be wrong, but I think it is a relatively recent U.S. census-driven thing to refer to the entire area as the midwest. While there may be affinities between Ohio and the northeast, from a traditional persepective, it just sound very odd to say that Ohio is part of the northeast U.S. Many of the said affinities are likely due to the fact that many of the early settlers (at least in northeast Ohio (now there's an ironic coincidence) were from the northeastern states. But the same could be said of Michigan and Wisconsin--the Town system in Wisconsin is quite similar to that of New York. older≠wiser 15:43, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure I'd say Ohio is in the Northeastern corner of the US! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 135.104.20.14 (talk • contribs). 17:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Historically "Midwest" certainly applied to the original states of the Northwest Territories, but as time moved on the concept of "Midwest" shifted much farther westward than the term originally meant. Further, in doing so, it picked up a very rural connotation, which is not applicable to a lot of Ohio. As for Ohioans themselves, their comfort level with the term "Midwest" depends on where they are from--as a native Clevelander I was raised in believing that Ohio was unquestionably a Northeastern state. I find that Cincinnatians, however, happily call themselves Midwesterners. Today I have an affinity for the term "Great Lakes" as well as my own term "near-east." In my mind, Ohio sits solidly in Eastern time, and is closer to New York and DC than the Mississippi. My experience is that New Yorkers and other Northeasterners are the most likely to think of Ohio as Midwestern, but people to the west of Ohio are less sure. Jimbobjoe 10:50, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I finally went crazy enough with the regional definition of Ohio to soften the "midwestern" concept and begin implying that a.) Ohio is multi-regional, or, regionless, depending on how you look at things, b.) "Midwest" is not really a well-defined concept anyway, c.) there's quite a lot of disagreement regarding this issue. I left the basic concept of Ohio being a midwestern state reasonably intact, but I did so more out of history than anything, since I didn't really attempt to justify it all that much.

In time, the few lines that are there will likely, and should, grow into their own section discussion on region and Ohio. To that end, I would ask that people who are considering editing that section, to add to this discussion and the different sides of it, as opposed to attempting to pigeonhole Ohio into a region based on definition X or concept Y. Locking the first line of Ohio's wikipedia article into a definition of Ohio as a midwestern state doesn't give this controversy the due time it deserves. Jimbobjoe 08:35, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I've always been comfortable with the decision to consider Ohio in the "Midwest", and really see no reason to debate the issue. The Northeast U.S. has colder climes, is generally a lot closer to the Eastern seaboard, and usually exhibits a more leftist (socialist) worldview than most of the folks in Ohio, so politically there are differences as well. Saying that the state isn't rural is a bit misleading as well. Sure, we have cities, but if you took anyone from China or India and tried to convince them that we were crowded, you would have a hard time convincing them in most of our counties. Just drive from Dayton up to Toledo along I-75, and you'll probably see more tractors than people along the way. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.88.221.97 (talk • contribs). 18:53, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I've lived in Ohio almost my entire life and in my experience Ohioans universally refer to Ohio as part of the Midwest. I have many friends and family in Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Columbus -- and have lived in these cities myself -- and I've never once heard someone refer to any region of Ohio as anything but Midwestern. After all, Pittsburgh is considered a Midwestern city and Buffalo is often described as being on the border of the Northeast and Midwest and both cities are obviously located a considerable amount further to the east than anywhere in Ohio. Furthermore, it may be true that Plains States such as Iowa, Missouri, or Nebraska have been referred to as part of the Midwest in recent years, but this is simply due to misuse of the word Midwest. Those states are the Heartland. And this is the problem -- people equate the words Midwest and Heartland when, in fact, they are two separate regions with distinctly different geography, culture, etc. The rule of thumb that I've always encountered is that the states at the core of the Great Lakes are the Midwest -- Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and Wisconsin. That leaves two "oddball" states that don't exactly fit into any category -- Minnesota which has characteristics of the Midwest and Heartland and West Virginia which isn't really Midwestern, Northeastern, *or* Southern. This is debatable (like I said, it's just a rule of thumb), but one thing is for sure -- to use the word Midwest to describe anything West of the Mississippi is just plain wrong. -- Stereoisomer 19:11, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

As a native Clevelander, I've never heard Ohio referred to as Northeastern, although when I first heard it, I could understand where they were coming from, at least in regards to the Cleveland area. However, after going to college in New England, I have to say that Cleveland is much, much, MUCH more Midwestern than Northeastern. If I had to compare it to any other city in the country, I'd say that we have a lot in common with Detroit (rustbelt, auto manufacturing,) which is definitely Midwestern. We may not have the feel of Chicago, but we're definitely more likek Chi-town than Boston or New York City. --Confiteordeo 19:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Politics

What about Ohio's status as a swing-state on the national stage, or the internal political tendencies of the state? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.29.222.241 (talk • contribs). 06:38, 29 August 2004 (UTC)

In the "Political Demographics and history" section it states that state politics are currently dominated by Democrats. I am not sure that this is an accurate statement. The information that I have been able to find says that Ohio's General Assembly is currently controlled by the Republicans and despite the election of a Democratic governor will remain in Republican hands for the 127th session. So perhaps the Ohio article should be changed to say that state politics are dominated by the Republicans. ClixTrek 19:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

The article used to say that state politics are dominated by Republicans, but following the election, somebody changed it to read Democrats. Since the two parties essentially share control now, I removed the statement. - EurekaLott 20:14, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added Bellefontaine...

...to list of important cities and towns. While Bellefontaine is certainly not among Ohio's largest cities, it is important in that the city played a role in many of Ohio's historical periods. From its founding as the Shawnee community of Blue Jacket's Town c. 1770, to the travels of pioneers Simon Kenton, John Chapman, David Jones, and the Zane family, Bellefontaine was an important site at the founding of Ohio. Bellefontaine's importance continued through the railroading era; it was the site of one of the largest railroad terminals in the Eastern United States. As Ohio and America took to the automobile, Bellefontaine was there: The process for paving streets with concrete was perfected at Bellefontaine. And now, Bellefontaine is at the center of Honda of America Manufacturing's extensive Ohio operations. SwissCelt 21:52, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Not to mention being the home of the highest point in the state of Ohio! That's significant! *ahem* Actually, I'm very fond of Bellefontaine, and I don't intend to protest its inclusion, though perhaps we should get someone who isn't from Ohio to comment. --[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 22:04, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I think my bugaboo is with the section heading, "Important cities and towns". "Important" should not be synonymous with "most populous". SwissCelt 23:07, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Date of statehood

The article currently state that Ohio was admitted to the Union on "August 7, 1953, retroactive to March 1, 1803" (in the table) which is explained somewhat in the text with

"Under the Northwest Ordinance, Ohio could begin the process to statehood once its population exceeded 5,000. On February 19, 1803, President Jefferson signed an act of Congress that declared Ohio the 17^th state. The current custom of Congress declaring statehood did not begin until 1812, with Louisiana's admission, so, in 1953, President Eisenhower signed an act that officially declared March 1, 1803 the date of Ohio's admittance into the Union."

I don't think this is quite accurate. First, Ohio was accepted as a State of the Union by the act of February 19, 1903 [1]. The act stated that Ohio had fulfilled the process set out in the enabling act of April 30, 1802, "whereby the said state has become one of the United States of America". Unlike Lousiana and subsequent states, no effective date was declared for this change of status and the language was not as explicit as for subsequent states. Yet there is no question that Ohio had fulfilled all the requirements set out by Congress and was legally recognized as a state on February 19, 1803.

The lack of an explicit declaration of a date of statehood only became an issue as the 150th anniversary approached in 1953. The issue was more a matter of PR and self-promotion than a matter of law, but Congress and Eisenhower played along with the Ohio congressman, George Bender, who introduced the legislation that retroactively recognized Ohio's official date of admittance to the Union. [2] [3] [4][5]

I am going to change the table to read "March 1, 1803, declared retroactively on August 7, 1953 and update the explanation in the text. older≠wiser 18:49, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

I don't have the citation handy, but the courts were forced to consider the issue of when exactly Ohio became a state. The issue came up for because as to when officers of the territory ceased to hold their offices and be entitled to pay, expense accounts, etc. The courts determined the date as March 1, 1803 because that was the date the Constitution entered into force and the General Assembly first sat. The first governor was sworn in either on the second or the third. This judicial determination was made circa 1807. PedanticallySpeaking 14:36, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Plaque on Wall Street

The photo of the plaque outside Federal Hall doesn't commemorate the Northwest Ordinance but rather the Ohio Company of Associates of Israel Ludlow et alia that bought a large chunk of southeastern Ohio around Marietta. (I corresponded with the New-York Historical Society on this issue a couple of years ago after I saw a photo of Federal Hall with the unmistakable outline of Ohio visible.) PedanticallySpeaking 14:38, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

The title is definitely about the Ohio Company, as you say, but the caption also describes the Northwest Ordinance and the Northwest Territory. -- Decumanus 17:57, 2004 Oct 23 (UTC)

[edit] Ohio school districts

I posted an item for discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. special districts#Ohio school districts on what to name articles on our school districts. I'd appreciate Wikipedians looking at my query and posting comments there. PedanticallySpeaking 18:38, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bot for Ohio Townships Project

I created Wikipedia:WikiProject Ohio townships yesterday after having gone through and manually created articles on all the townships in Butler, Warren, and Clinton counties, e.g. Oxford Township, Butler County, Ohio.
There is a wealth of data on each township in the Census data, which are also available more easily through Ohio State's site. Bots were used to create articles from this data on all of Ohio's villages and cities and I wonder if someone would be willing to create and operate a bot for me to add the Census data to the existing articles and to create new ones. I have some guidelines on the project page for how these articles should be set up. If someone's interested, please let me know on my talk page. And I'd welcome anyone to join the project as well. PedanticallySpeaking 15:20, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] French and Indian War

The war fought from 1756-1763 is known as the French and Indian War only in the US, and not all of North America, as the article states. In Canada, as elsewhere, the war is called the Seven Years War. Corrected to show this fact.--Simon.Pole 03:00, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Annual rain fall

I looked up Ohio to find out what the annual rain fall was. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.12.116.135 (talk • contribs). 23:17, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cities and towns cut

The following cities and towns were cut in the most recent edit:

• Athens, Ohio
• Chillicothe, Ohio
• Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
• Elyria, Ohio
• Euclid, Ohio
• Findlay, Ohio
• Lakewood, Ohio
• Lima, Ohio
• Mansfield, Ohio
• Marietta, Ohio
• Mentor, Ohio
• Middletown, Ohio
• Warren, Ohio
• Zanesville, Ohio

I think Athens, Chillicothe, and Marietta should stay. Chillicothe was the site of the Constitutional Convention and capital city for a few years. Marietta was also one of the capital cities, along with being the home of the oldest college in the Northwest Territory. Athens is the site of the first public university in the state. Rkevins82 20:15, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Naming convention

I've proposed a standard form for naming articles on Ohio school districts: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Ohio school districts), which could easily be extended to apply to districts in other states. I'd welcome some feedback on this. PedanticallySpeaking 16:37, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Important cities

I feel that Parma, Lorain, and Hamilton should be removed from the list of important cities. This is not due to them being unimportant, rather that they are part of a larger metropolitan area (Cleveland for Parma and Lorain, and Cincinnati for Hamilton). The US census bureau consideres these cities to be part of their MSAs, as they are geographically fairly close to the nearby major city. Bcirker 22:08, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Statistics in metric units

Why are all of the statistics for the state showing up in Metric Units? None of the folks I know here in Ohio use Metric units. In fact, most of them have no idea how long 355 kilometers is. I tried updating these to show both English and Metric, but someone deleted all of my work. It only makes sense to have the measurement used in the area in question shown on the page, when most of the folks looking up information on it will be from that area. They have a right to have access to the data in a useable form, without having to do a bunch of conversions. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.88.221.97 (talk • contribs). 18:57, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Featured article

I'm trying to nominate my home state as a featured article. Fellow Buckeyes, please help! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Leoberacai (talk • contribs). 04:00, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

Here's the Reform Judaism info I trimmed:

"Cincinnati was a hotbed for the American Reform Judaism movement in the 19th Century. Rabbi Isaac Mayer Wise, a Bohemian immigrant to Ohio, was a major contributor to this. Under Mayer’s supervision the Hebrew Union College -- the oldest Jewish Seminary in the Americas – opened in Cincinnati in 1875."

Interesting, but it seemed too detailed for the overview nature of the paragraph. The history of religion in Ohio should be a separate topic from the current religious demographic. I presume the same information is available under Reform Judaism; if not, it should certainly appear there. Carboncopy 03:27, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question: Amish/Pietist

The combination of "Amish/Pietist" seems very strange to me. As far as I know pietism is a Christian movement among Lutherans (and some other denominations) mostly in Germany. Does "Piestist" have another meaning here in context with the Amish? If so, what does it mean here? Does it make sense? (Sorry, if these questions seem silly to you. I'm not a native English speaker.) The combination "Amish/Pietist" was added to the article by a user with an IP-address on July 1, 2005: [6]. -- Mathetes Ger 09:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Not only is lumping Amish and Pietist nonsensical, but the numbers in that table are flat-out wrong. The best numbers on religious affiliation come from the Association of Religion Data Archivists, and they say that there are 5,101,169 religious adherents in Ohio. The census says that the state population is 11,353,140.

Apparently the census number was used in calculating the Catholics number. There are 2,231,832 Roman Catholics, which is 43.75% of the adherents, or 19.66% of the total population - but that table says that the baptists number 15%. By the time you add together all the churches that have Baptist somewhere in the name, you get 3.28%, and if you add together all the evangelical churches together, you only get 9.95% of the population.

According to Wikipedia:Verifiability, Any unsourced material may be challenged and removed. Given that there's not a single sourced statement in the entire Religion subsection, and the data doesn't even begin to pass the giggle test, I am removing the entire subsection.

I don't object to religious demographics being in Wikipedia's U.S. States articles. If someone wants to write a religion subsection based on fact instead of fantasy, and provide proper references for it, I would certainly encourage them to do so. A good place to get started would be the ARDA web page on Ohio religious adherents. (Note: if you highlight the table on that page, copy it to a text file, and then open the text file in Excel or other spreadsheet, there's a tab between the columns, making it easy to generate meaningful numbers from the 116 religious groups.) ClairSamoht 01:46, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer and for removing the unsourced contents making Wikipedia less false. -- Mathetes Ger 21:43, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] State symbols

I have an idea for converting the state symbols list to a more graphical view. See below. --Midnightcomm 04:17, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

State animal	State bird	State capital: Columbus	State flower: Scarlet Carnation
State wildflower	State insect	State song: Beautiful Ohio	State rock song: "Hang On Sloopy"
State tree	State fossil	State drink	State reptile
State gemstone	State motto: "With God all things are possible."	Unofficial Motto 1: "The heart of it all."	Unofficial Motto 2: "So much to discover."

• State motto: "With God all things are possible."
• Unofficial Motto 1: "The heart of it all." Used on Ohio's license plates between the years 1991 and 2001.
• Unofficial Motto 2: "So much to discover." Adopted as part of state bicentennial campaign.

--Midnightcomm 04:17, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mid west?

The start of the article quotes The Economist saying that Ohio is in the mid west of the united states. From the map it appears to be in the north eastern corner of the country. So how does one arrive at it being in the mid west? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.222.209.7 (talk • contribs). 15:17, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Ohio is part of the Midwest, which is a region of the United States, just like the Mid-Atlantic and New England. Please feel free to read about these regions and learn more! Also, please sign your comments on talk pages. Confiteordeo 22:13, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

The term "Midwest" is confusing not just to non-Americans but to many Americans as well. "New England" has a specific definition and is comprised of the six most northeastern states, no more and no less. "Mid-Atlantic" is rather intuitive and the major question would be if it went on down the Atlantic coast to Virigina or North Carolina (consenus would be that it does not). But Ohio and several other Midwestern states (notably Michigan, Indiana, and Illinois) are certainly not in the middle of the Western United States as currently constituted. The answer lies that they were such when the term first gained currency, which was well before much of what is now the Western United States was settled, or even part of the United States, and this historical term has carried over to the present even though it no longer makes real sense. Rlquall 00:46, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Climate

Does Ohio have a climate ;-) and if yes, what is it like? --62.134.233.93 19:12, 6 September 2006 (UTC) Found this pdf. Could someone include it into the article, please? My English is not good enough... Thank You! --62.134.228.22 20:51, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Other than your understanding of the word climate, I would say your English is pretty darn good.--65.16.61.35 15:57, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unofficial motto (spam)

Removed "Build Your Business. Love Your Life." from the list. It's nothing more than an advertising slogan for the Ohio Business Development Coalition, which is a consortium of corporations and chambers of commerce. One of the stated goals in their mission statement:

Develop a brand and messages to aggressively sell Ohio as a profitable location for business investment

This would seem to qualify the "motto" as spam. The article is better off without it.

I'm moving the link to the article provided by ConfiteorDeo, for reference. "Ads aim to lure CEOs to try Ohio" The Cincinnati Enquirer, September 14, 2006. Accessed October 31 2006.

Should any of the other "unofficial mottos" be included in this article? They don't seem like encyclopedic material. --KeithB 04:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Senators

Should the infobox be changed to replace Mike Dewine with Sherrod Brown for our senator, per the elections? Or has he not be sworn in or something? Just checking, seems like kind of a big fact to miss...same with governor, it should be Strickland now. DoomsDay349 17:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

No, they haven't taken office yet. (Well, Strickland hasn't taken his new office yet.) Taft steps down in January, but I don't quite know when Congress is sworn in. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 17:26, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Per Section 2 of the Twentieth Amendment to the United States Constitution, Congress must meet by "noon on the 3rd day of January". So I suppose the swearing in takes place then, or soon after?

The new governor is sworn in "on the second Monday of January next after his election", per O.R.C. § 107.01.. So the eighth of Jan, 2007.

I'm placing a comment in the article text to attempt to keep editors from changing the pols until then. --KeithB 22:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

It seems someone thinks changing everything on the page to variants of the "your mom" joke is funny. I'm only a novice at this wiki thing, could someone with more experience and authority please undo the damage that has been done? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.132.42.13 (talk)

[edit] Speaking of vandalism

Somebody should also remove "Ohio's main export is prostitutes." (It's up near the top.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.0.212.132 (talk)

Done. Confiteordeo 23:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Sports section added to updated Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format

The Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format has been updated to include a new Sports section, that covers collegiate sports, amateur sports, and non-team sports (such as hunting and fishing). Please feel free to add this new heading, and supply information about sports in Ohio. Please see South_carolina#Sports_in_South_Carolina as an example. NorCalHistory 16:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Introductory Paragraph - midwest versus whatever

IMHO, the introductory paragraph is far too focused on whether Ohio is or is not part of the midwestern states. Perhaps the debate could be moved into the Geography section, and a better introduction could be written for that first paragraph. Thoughts? JonathanFreed 19:21, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think there's any debate about whether or not Ohio is Midwestern, but I agree that a lot of the information is superfluous. What do you think of this intro, based on the Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan articles?

Ohio is the 17^th U.S. state and is located in the Midwestern region of the United States of America. With over 11 million residents, the state is the second most populous in the Midwest, and the seventh most populous in the nation. The name "Ohio" is an Iroquoian word meaning "good river," and refers to the Ohio River, which forms the state's southern border. In 1803, Ohio became the first state to be admitted to the Union under the Northwest Ordinance.

An alternative first sentence could be, "Ohio is a Midwestern state of the United States, and is located in the Great Lakes region of the country," which is more like the Michigan intro.

--Confiteordeo 20:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)