User talk:Oberst

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{welcome} -- Longhair | Talk 00:07, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Yellowknife 2 Frye 3 Open proxy block 4 Prin suspected socks 5 Origin of "democracy" 6 Direct Access Democracy 7 J. W. Smith 8 Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Raphael1 9 Request text on J.W. Smith 10 Emancipation 11 Cite your Quote? 12 user talk for democracy 13 Democracy (disambiguation) 14 the democracy "vandal" 15 thanks and sorry 16 IIM content per your request 17 IIM AfD closure 18 Wangi/RFA 19 What is your PROBLEM??? 20 Sockpuppet tag 21 In the information age, who has elected "Oberst" as wikiWatchdog? 22 Your goal 23 Logo 24 Good? 25 Fodder for your anti-spam campaign

[edit] Yellowknife

I have adressed things at Talk:Yellowknife, Northwest Territories. Thanks for your note. --W.marsh 13:05, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Frye

All about perceptions, connotations, etc - & some folks wanting to glorify reasonably mundane folks. Personally, I'm thinking of nominating this for WP:LAME, but have also seen this thin-edge-of-the-wedge thing in a few similar pages where eminent (or distinguished) becomes in short order 'the preeminent glorious world-renowned great......which proves the supremacy of......etc ad nauseum'.Bridesmill 20:08, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Open proxy block

I don't know why it didn't take... Jayjg ^(talk) 01:08, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Prin suspected socks

I noticed you created Category:Wikipedia:Suspected sockpuppets of Prin. There seems to be a current CheckUser request with a few more possibles. I noticed that the User:Ghajini account restored a rather juvenile vandalism edit originally by User:81.158.122.184 [1], and the User:Prince 06 account seemed to pick up a few hours after the now-banned User:Jath16 account stopped. I'm highly unqualified in the area of East Asian film stars, but the edit patterns are not dissimilar; perhaps some sort of fan club at least! - David Oberst 09:22, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Quite possibly. I don't think I'm in a position to do much about it, though. Stifle (talk) 00:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of "democracy"

LSJ's oldest citation for democratia is Herodotus. There is also an orator Democrates, who was an old man in 338 B.C., and may attest a slightly earlier usage. Solon described himself as following a middle way, and we do not know what the people to his left called themselves.

There is an argument in Athenian democracy that the word was originally negative, being derived from kratos not archê, and was coined by the oligarchs. Septentrionalis 21:26, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Direct Access Democracy

Have you seen the Direct Access Democracy Canada article? Certainly a type of democracy which is recently coined, and with only 133 votes it is very obscure, though perhaps a small notch above single person usage, being a tiny segment of the Canadian political scene. In essence, I think, the concept is to harness the Internet onto representative democracy. Perhaps this idea might develop more in the future. I don't feel strongly about this, but my luke warm feeling is that if it rises to the level of an article in Wikipedia, it should to be included on the disambiguation page. If the article gets deleted from Wikipedia, obviously, it should drop off the disambiguation page. BruceHallman 17:49, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] J. W. Smith

Concur. Merge those two? I think the gentleman in question is posting a vanity autobiography. V. Joe

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Raphael1

Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Raphael1. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Raphael1/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Raphael1/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Johnleemk | Talk 11:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request text on J.W. Smith

Hi,

I vaguely thought the gentleman might have been notable, but there was nothing in the threadbare text to gainsay an A7. Here is the text in toto:

J. W. Smith is an independent economist. He founded and presides over the Institute for Economic Democracy, which promotes Smith's economic theories and research. Smith has a Ph.D. from Union Institute and University of Ohio.

If and when you recreate, I will do a history undelete to satisfy GFDL. Best wishes, Xoloz 16:36, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Emancipation

Ah, thanks for the info. I really just scanned the block of text, and aside from seeing that it was in the wrong place, the content didn't really register in my mind. That's why I just moved it to the seemingly appropriate talk page instead of moving it and commenting on it, or just deleting it for being in the wrong place. I think you're right about removing that section from the Emacipation of minors article, though, as it's empty, so I'll go ahead and do that. --Icarus 23:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cite your Quote?

Would you mind citing the quote you added to "Politics of Noam Chomsky"? New content = good but it needs to be cited.

Thanks much.  ;)

Antelope In Search Of Truth 23:32, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

"If you look my note on the Talk page, the quote was actually added by another user (68.20.192.126, but actually User:Skovoroda)......."

lol. Oops.  ;) Nevermind then.....  ;)

Antelope In Search Of Truth 18:41, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] user talk for democracy

Thank you for responding to me and suggesting I do something about my user talk article. THis is my first day with Wikipedia. Just so you know, I resent your use of the word "idiosyncratic". My article on the defnition of democracy interprets the facts in a view that is not mine alone, nor is it unfounded.

[edit] Democracy (disambiguation)

Is now a good time to take the scissors to this page? Or do you need more time to work up the History of political parties in the United States article? IMHO, we've been letting the disambig page hang without appropriate cleanup for too long. —  Stevie is the man!  ^{Talk • Work} 17:40, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

My spare time for playing with Wikipedia has been limited lately. However, I did create a draft of a possible disambig page at User:Oberst/Democracy (disambiguation). It was designed so that the bottom part would be extracted to a separate List of democracy articles (or other suitable name). I've seen no other disambig page which lists such a large number articles as this one does, which are mainly [(some adjective) (main term)] and not the normal sort of wiki disambiguation. For instance, the freedom page doesn't list intellectual freedom or all the many similar articles. If you agree with this approach, we can may do any tidying necessary on the draft and drop it in, and I would hope gain consensus. People can then take any battles to the "List" page, create or improve the other overview articles, or whatever. My feeling is that this would make the disambig page fall into line with general WIkipedia practice. - David Oberst 18:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Looks pretty good. I added E-democracy to the list. I'm not sure of the formatting in the opening--perhaps start with a sentence, and then bold the top disambig terms? Generally, I like this and would support it strongly. Thanks! —  Stevie is the man!  ^{Talk • Work} 19:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I had toyed with a paragraph format for the main disambig links (see diff), but it seemed unsuitable. There is probably room for some sort of brief opening statement, if someone wants to craft one. Further discussion is probably best taken to the draft's Talk page. - David Oberst 19:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

From my comments on the talk page, you'll see that I agree with your edits to the page. I trimmed down another editor's result, although I prefer your version. BTW, I decided to withdraw from the fracas. I posted in the first place only to show that another editor supported the slimmed down version. --Usgnus 19:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

(I posted this to wangi's talk too, but slightly different) Thanks for working with me and others on this article. I have to say I'm flabbergasted at BruceHallman's repeating of the same rejected viewpoints, as if repeating them will make the viewpoints gain more currency. He keeps asking us the same questions we've already answered over and over again, and it's like it doesn't matter if his position is now obviously incorrect or not, he just seems to be pursuing this to a pyrrhic victory to achieve something he's not telling us about. I honestly don't want to take this to a next step, like an RFC regarding him, but it's starting to look like this will be necessary. Do you have any thoughts on how we might proceed? Thanks. — Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 22:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Frankly, it doesn't seem worth the trouble right now. I'll strongly defend the current page again major changes back to what it was, and I'll remove the NPOV tag if Bruce doesn't provide some sort of dab-examples or support that is external to his peculiar arguments. Until that changes I'm not going to bother with any long comments on the Talk page - the whole thing is silly. If it continues to be a pain after a couple of days, then maybe try bringing it to the community. The logic would almost certainly bring a horse-laugh from the dab-wonks - disambig pages would be unworkable on this basis, and all sorts of WP:POINT examples come to mind - adding all the "Parliament of xxx" articles onto the Parliament (disambiguation) page, for instance. - David Oberst 22:44, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I had already attempted to pull in editors from the Village Pump (policy) regarding this, but apparently, that hasn't been bearing much, if any, fruit. I agree this is all silly, and I'd love nothing better than to move past this. Hopefully, over the next few days, the issue will become increasingly clear (esp. via community involvement), especially to the lone holdout. :) — Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 23:08, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi there David. I just felt like signing up to this MEDCAB case. If you would like to provide your statement now, that would be appreciated. Thanks, Blnguyen | rant-line 02:18, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the democracy "vandal"

Did you read my entry? i am working in good faith i am not vandalising. if you disagree with me that's ok i undderstand but saying that i am vandalising that is unfair and hurtful. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.106.19.3 (talk • contribs) 2006-08-03T03:40:01 (UTC)

yeah the last little comment was from me. i'm not very technically proficient, yet.... but i just made an account and i'm NOT a vandal —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Esmehwk (talk • contribs) 2006-08-03T03:49:59 (UTC)

[edit] thanks and sorry

thanks for the heads up on the 3 change rule and sorry i didn't mean to be annoying just getting the hang of things, i love wiki and want to help it. chao

[edit] IIM content per your request

You asked for the content of the IIM page as it existed prior to my speedy deletion of it in January of this year. Here is the entirety of the content from that version of the article:
"{{wikify}} {{advert}} International Institute of Management (IIM) is an advanced executive education and development institute. IIM is known for its accelerated and online executive MBA programs and management best practices research. Other IIM services include the annual management conference held in Las Vegas USA, CEO club networking events, executive search, and the publishing of executive journal and its annual management papers awards. To learn more visit http://www.iim-edu.org"
--Durin 12:35, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IIM AfD closure

After careful consideration of the AfD and the evidence presented, I've closed the AfD as delete. This took more than two hours to work through. Uhg! :) I provided an extensive rationale at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/International Institute of Management. --Durin 14:15, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

David, thanks for the tip on quoting from earlier versions and for your cordial tone. I've found the Brits and Canadians on Wikipedia to be helpful in every case so far. Curious! FYI the link to a previous version doesn't work once the article is deleted. I went back to IIM today to add a link to my anonymous edits (due to the computer timing out my login) to my user page and couldn't find anything. Oh well. Guess I wasted time yesterday trying to improve the article.--Beth Wellington 16:43, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Durin, thanks, especially for taking the trouble on the closure. Beth, no problem, Canadians are required by law to be polite, courteous and well-mannered, or we lose the right to put those little maple leaf patches on our luggage and backpacks when travelling abroad. - David Oberst 01:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wangi/RFA

Thanks for your support on my RfA. Give me shout if I can be of help. Thanks/wangi 00:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

What if I were allergic or phobic to bees? Insensitivity is one of my retroactive RfA criteria. I will be petitioning for immediate revocation of new admin powers - prepare to be defrocked... - David Oberst 00:29, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

In that case there's the sting ;) (and let me tell you, it wasn't much fun being stung in the top of my mouth last month by a wasp!) ! /wangi 00:34, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What is your PROBLEM???

So, someone -- I don't know WHO --bioinformaticist or whatever -- votes KEEP on a woman's bio and YOU ACCUSE ME/HIM/HER of sockpuppetry????

GROW UP YOU BABY!!! MathStatWoman 18:22, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

You are correct, one of the parties in this conversation is indeed exhibiting childish behaviour... - David Oberst 21:01, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

And I also say - the Baby is YOU - Master Oberst. Please grow-up or please produce your evidence, if you have any? I bet it will prove you wrong- and I sugest you then say sorry to BOTH of us!!! And stop wasting everyone's time playing these stupid games. If you had any skill, you would see that our styles of writing was different, I am in the UK, etc, etc. Please Grow up!! Have a Nice day putting more silly comments on the net or playing with your other toys!! I hope you will ask for my and MathStatWoman's IP addresses to be checked? MxM Peace 11:30, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Sock or meat, it is still puppetry. Who is Punch and who is Judy isn't really of interest to me. - David Oberst 15:00, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

She's already been proven to have used sockpuppets in the past. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:24, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Please stop talking rubbish - I am NOT Ksingh20. I am a hairy monster in London. I know of Ksingh but he lives in the next district. So, please either get proof or stop playing these stupid games - Ask for IP addresses. Your link proves nothing. MxM Peace 02:59, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

You have been proven out by a person with the CheckUser capability. I do not doubt him. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:12, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Let's see the proof, if you don't mind. Just because he has the capability does not mean he is right as has been proven many times. I know this info is incorrect and so I would like to see the proof so I can highlight the weakness of your system - just saying things does not prove anything. Lets see the IP address numbers and any other research that you may have done. Obviously, if you have no proof or have not carried out a search of the background to the IP addresses than your words are meaningless and have no weight! --MxM Peace 04:28, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

CheckUser does not reveal the proof, this is personal information which they are not authorized to reveal. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:42, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Your IP address is like a number plate on a car - It's not confidential information. It's there for everyone on the net to observe and note down. Please be fair and treat everyone else in good faith as adults and not as kids. Data Protection Act only stops personal details like your real name, address, telephone number from being revealed. I have complained about this to Jimmy Wales and will be taking futher action --MxM Peace 23:12, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sockpuppet tag

I have marked this account as a suspected sockpuppet of User:MathStatWoman. On August 23, this (newly created) account created the article Elaine Louise Zanutto, which contained the same text as a previously speedy-deleted article Elaine Zanutto created by User:MathStatWoman, who has a previous history of sockpuppets. - David Oberst 02:19, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I have changed the tag to indicate that User:Ksingh20 and User:MxM Peace are the same person (per Fred Bauder, here). As this is the older of these two new accounts, I have given it the puppeteer template, although it is likely both are being run by someone else. At a minimum, this user somehow managed to recreate (with the same text) a deleted article written by User:MathStatWoman, as noted above. - David Oberst 02:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

"Somehow" is not a mystery. Text of deleted articles is readily available to hundreds (maybe more than 1000?) of Wikipedia adminstrators. The speedy deletion in this case was clearly improper. Those who wanted it deleted are now going through proper channels instead. Michael Hardy 20:45, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

It was a clearly valid speedy deletion as it doesn't even make any assertions of notability, unless getting grants and a PhD are notability. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:43, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In the information age, who has elected "Oberst" as wikiWatchdog?

We can all agree that Wikipedia is a wonderful tool. I don't know as much as some do about this website, but I do know that it offers a wonderful source of knowledge that is growing in popularity and usefulness. What makes Wikipedia so great is its ability to combine the perspectives of hundreds of millions (billions?) of people, the result of which doubtless gets us very close to the truth. All perspectives are necessary for the truth and so none can be discounted.

Some of the perspectives conflict with others, and so one might think that they contradict each other and cancel each other out. But if we ignore either perspective, we lose a valuable (necessary) tool in the pursuit of truth.

It appears as though you, "Oberst," have taken it upon yourself to cancel out things that conflict with your stance. It might be your intention to better the site by eliminating things that you think do not belong, but in the end, you are halting the truth. Articles and sections that you have recently vetoed were sources of much activity, proving that they were quite popular for one reason or other. Do you get to halt that flow of information? Who has chosen you for this role? Do we need anyone to perform your "duties?"

Instead of simply deleting, perhaps you can work with the author to come to some sort of common ground. Find out what the author wanted to accomplish with his piece--don't assume that it is a negative or useless aim--and try to mold it in a direction that also satisfies you. Ultimately, both perspectives will be shared and the truth will be more accessible.

Thank you for your time.

Ermorse 20:39, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Specifically, Eric Morse is referring to the deletion of this section from Young Republicans (Talk), and the AfD discussion for Wikitistics. As I wasn't aware I had a stance, duties, or a role, much less a veto, or that I was somehow damming the inevitable stream of truth, and since it would be unhelpful to attribute this to personal pique on the author's part, I'll just have to muddle on as before. - David Oberst 23:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Oberst--sarcasm doesn't traslate well over the Internet.

Also, thanks for attempting to clarify what I was talking about, but I fear you've misunderstood me. I wasn't referring to any specific article or AfD, but rather your behavior in general. Who are you clarifying for anyway? All your fans?

Ermorse 02:49, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your goal

Perhaps it would save me from a lot of pointless typing if you were to come out and explain your objective in 1) editing Wikipedia in general, and 2) targeting a number of my articles of interest in particular (Young Republicans, Young Democrats of America, Logo, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wikitistics, and 3) generally working to remove information from the site as opposed to add to the site (from most recent contribs):

05:17, 27 August 2006 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hardware Store (song) (Delete) (top) 02:28, 27 August 2006 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/George W. Bush Scotland bicycle accident (Delete) (top) 02:24, 27 August 2006 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of songs about the seasons of the year (Delete) 00:53, 27 August 2006 (hist) (diff) Logo (→External links - removed link) 21:54, 26 August 2006 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tom El Fuego (Delete) (top) 21:35, 26 August 2006 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wikitistics (Delete) 10:44, 26 August 2006 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ramp Meter Effectiveness (Delete) 06:31, 26 August 2006 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rocky Gordon (Delete (and fixed sig on "Bustapete"))

A brief explanation would be great. Thanks Joe 00:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

If all that is worrying you is my motivation, that should be easily solved. I've found Wikipedia useful, and have used portions of my spare time to contribute back to it. I certainly have no particular politcal or personal axes to grind. I recently came across some useful lists of ongoing AfDs, so have been particpating in a number of these recently. Mainly these are ones which have gone "overdue" past their normal 5-day course, where (if the subject is amenable to evaluation) my input might be useful. Since items at AfD are usually there for a reason, and since I'm more likely to catch on to something that seems to meet obvious deletion criteria (I don't make up the guidelines, you know), it is no surprise that most of these will be Delete opinions. The fact that these were nominated at all, and most closed as "Delete" would indicate I was hardly alone.

As for "your" articles in particular, I had never heard of you before stumbling across the Wikitistics AfD discussion. I will certainly admit to a dislike (shared by the majority, I would assume) for the use of anon IPs, new accounts, etc., for multiple voting and other attempts to mislead consensus, which is certainly a problem with some AfD and RfA areas I have come across. Seeing "morse" in a couple of the Keep votes and as the main site contributors (I did actually browse it to see what it was) certainly made me take notice and do a little further checking. As I mentioned to Eric, I'm willing to let it go that you didn't feel it necessary to mention this, but certainly the fact that all the keep votes appeared to be by the site owners or closely related was something I felt of interest to the closing admin.

I've posted a note to Eric in regards to Young Republicans and Veracity (magazine). I merely added the natural External Link for Young Democrats when I checked it as a comparison to Young Republicans, which has too many. Similarly, Logo I only came across via the AfD - I've posted there, and will comment further when I return this evening.- David Oberst 02:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Logo

Hi, I just wanted to say thanks for catching that the users adding the link to Logo are likely the same person. I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out. Keep up the good work! Wmahan. 01:15, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I'm envious of your talk page. Judging from some people's emotional responses to your removal of information, you must be doing something right. Wmahan. 01:23, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

wow- is that the goal? I must be missing something —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jsmorse47 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Good?

I bet your parents are proud of you for how much good you're doing for people. Your edits really help people stay ignorant of their health- good job! Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Evolution_Diet Jlangley3007 19:51, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fodder for your anti-spam campaign

This guy should be of interest to you in your crusade to rid the WP world of spam: User:Jkatzen Vendormate Logo_extraction_puzzles I'll be very interested to see how you respond to this. Joe 19:56, 22 September 2006 (UTC)