Talk:O Canada

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[edit] Date

I could be wrong here, but I have it written down that the anthem was adopted in 1967, not the written 1980.

Bumstead, J. M. The Peoples of Canada - A Post-Confederation History New York. Oxford Press: 2004.

[edit] Historical Lyrics

Weren't the lyrics changed around 1980? I believe before 1980, the lyrics were a little more towards the first verse of the poem (but not an exact match). Anyone know the details?

--Sdfisher 04:38, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Natives

From Anonymous, November 17, 2004

Hello, just wondering why some natives refuse to stand up for O Canada. I'm thinking it has something to do with the Boarding School scandals, but I don't know. I'm native myself, so.. eh.

Sorry if I did this wrong.

Couldn't tell you for certain as I'm not native, but I imagine it has to do with not recognizing the Canadian government's sovereignty, as a colonial power, etc. - Montréalais 06:05, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

For one thing, the line "our home and native land" is considered offensive. Natives feel it is native land - their native land, not anyone elses. Women also dont like "in all our sons command" People talk about changing it but that wont please everyone either. Kismet (ottawa)

"Our home" excludes people only staying temporarily, and "native land" also excludes immigrants. Scott Gall 10:20, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I can see many reasons why "native land" is objectionable. But I think it would be a bit much for any country to change to make their anthem to make it inclusive of temporary residents, who are presumably not citizens. On the other hand, it's entirely reasonable for new Canadians to view their original country as "home", as I'm sure I would in similar circumstances. --Saforrest 12:36, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other Verses

There are some additional verses but like those of other anthems they are poorly known and rarely sung.

Actually, this doesn't seem to be the case. The anthem has only one verse in both English and French. However, the poem that the English version was based on has several more verses; people sometimes use those as addition verses to the song, but they aren't really. --Stephen Gilbert

[edit] Mixing languages

In the 1980s it was common to mix the lyrics across languages, switching from English to French after the fourth line, then back to English after two lines in French.

I'm not so sure about that. I remember it going like this:

O Canada! Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter la croix!                  
Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.              
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

Two lines English, four lines French, last three English. --Stephen Gilbert

Correct. I was trying to remember how it went by singing it out loud at home -- good thing I'm single -- but now that I see it written down it's coming back. -- Paul Drye
I don't think switching languages mid-song has "fallen in disfavour" -- they do it at the Ottawa Senators games and I'm pretty sure they did it on Canada Day at Parliament Hill. (Personally, I really dislike switching in the middle. Toss a coin before the anthem to decide which language!). Dze27
Well, they stopped doing it at Toronto sporting events, and I understand that's also the case out west. Perhaps Ottawa is a special case. -- Paul Drye

[edit] Poem vs. Song

Moved to Talk:

SECOND VERSE

O Canada! Where pines and maples grow,
Great Praries spread, and lordly rivers flow.
How dear to us they broad domain,
From East to Western Sea!
Thy land of hope for all who toil,
Thou True North strong and free!

CHORUS

The anthem is typically sung without the second verse.

The Government of Canada confirms that the official version is just one verse. As mentioned above, the poem by Weir had multiple verses.

FYI, both the English and French lyrics and melody are in the public domain. - Montréalais

[edit] Link

Link dead as of May 2003: http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/ceremonial-symb/english/emb_anthem.html

This link works: http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/sc-cs/anthem_e.cfm Alex756
Great. Added. --Menchi 21:23 May 5, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] "Foi"

It's stretching it a bit to claim that foi could "just as easily" be a secular faith -- the lyrics were written in the 19th century in Quebec for a society named after St. John the Baptist. They talk about carrying the cross. My aged memory also recalls that the religious reference in the English lyrics was added later than 1968, but my memory is aged. Jfitzg

Nice NPOV-ing. --Menchi 12:15 21 May 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Sons Command vs. Sons' Command

Jfitzg, you've added an apostrophe in the second reference to "sons command" (beside the feminists criticism). I actually did the exact same thing to the first reference of "sons command" earlier this month. But it just didn't sit well with me and after some research online and in print, I reverted it. In all but one incidence (online), there was no apostrophe.

This is because "command" is used as a verb to mean "deserve" here, not noun. The reason why the verb is placed in an exceptional order (SOV) is to rhyme with "land" from the first line. --Menchi 12:15 21 May 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment above. Thanks for the explanation of "in all thy sons command," too. I suppose if I'd parsed the sentence I could have figured it out by myself, but there you are. Your interpretation is obviously correct when you actually think, so thanks for thinking for me. Jfitzg
A weird sentiment, though, eh? A political abstraction is supposed to command love in its "sons". I suppose it's no weirder than the idea of l'épopée des plus brillants exploits, though. Jfitzg
Well, a beautiful idea can command (inspire) respect/admiration, why not love? And aren't most epics composed of wonderful deeds? - Montréalais
You're right that command can mean 'inspire, and in a completely admirable way, but what were the plus brillants exploits Lavallée was talking about? Perhaps it was the founding of Quebec, but although it's nothing to sniff at it doesn't seem to qualify as brilliant. Thanks for clarifying command for me; perhaps you can clarify brillants as well. Jfitzg
After further thought I decided that since brillant can mean shining maybe that's what Lavallée meant by it. Well, I feel better about my national anthem now. If they'd just take the religion out of it everything would be perfect. Jfitzg
I always thought it was "all thy Son's command," and was referring to Christianity somehow...as in "there is patriotism in all the land ruled by Jesus," or something.

[edit] Unofficial French

Does it make sense to have the full version of the original French poem, which has no official status? - Montréalais

[edit] "la foi"

Since it is "la foi" , should it not be "trempée" not "trempé".

Could this typo have escaped your attention or am I misreading?

Grandson of Verchères.

trempé(e) modifies valeur, not foi ("ta valeur trempée de foi", otherwise put); but it's feminine anyway. I'll change it. - Montréalais

[edit] Oh vs. O

For the copy editors and fact checkers of the world, could someone please mention in the article that it's definitely "O" and not "Oh"--right? jengod 03:00, Jan 29, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] official version

An anonymous user put in the entire texts of the original poems under "official version." Those aren't the official versions of the anthem; merely two poems upon which the official versions are based. If they are going to be included (a measure whose utility I question), it should be in a separate section. - Montréalais 01:55, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Inuktitut Gloss

Can somebody provide an Inuktitut gloss, too? Circeus 01:14, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Moved from User_talk:Diderot

Hi, on the O Canada page there is the Inuktitut version of the national anthem there. I don't know if this is an "official" translation. Could you check it out as best you can and see if it is the same as the English or French versions, and if not maybe give an English translation? From what I can tell from the living dictionary it's seems sort of the same, but I couldn't find very many of the words.

O'Kanata nangmini Nunavut
Piqujatii / Nalattiaqpavut
Angiglivaliajuti sangijulutillu
Nanqipugu / O'Kanata
Mianiripluti
O'Kanata nunatsia
Nangiqpugu mianiripluti
O'Kanata salagijauquna

This version was probably taken from this web page.

I also found the first two lines in Inuktitut on another website, except they're very different =P.

Uu Kanata, Nunavut taimanngat
Najuqtavut, Ungagijaavut

--Ben 01:49, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ben,

I doubt that there is an "official" Inuktitut translation, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if more than one translation was extant. The one you found here looks like a medley of Inuktitut, French and English, which strikes me as the most likely candidate for "official compromise version used in state ceremonies" for officially trilingual Nunavut. I don't live in Iqaluit, but "Nunavut taimanngat" sounds familiar to me.

I'm kinda on an impromptu hiatus right now, and I want to warn you, my Inuktitut sucks ass. But I'll give it my best shot. I'm mostly using dictionaries and corpora to do this - not native knowledge.

For the two line Inuktitut section you quoted last, I'd translate it word for word like this:

Uu Kanata, Nunavut  taimanngat
O  Canada, our land always

Najuqtavut,  Ungagijaavut
our pride    the thing we are strongly attaching ourselves to

A more syntactically correct literal translation might be something like:

O Canada, our home forever
Our pride and what we hold dear

For the longer version:

O'Kanata nangmini        Nunavut
O Canada the very thing  our land

Piqujatii              Nalattiaqpavut
to its commands/laws   we listen good

Angiglivaliajuti sangijulutillu   (I think this should be Angiglivalliajuti sanngijulutillu)
its growth       and its strength 

Nanqipugu    O'Kanata (This should be Nangiqpugu. It's a typo.)
we stand up  O Canada

Mianiripluti 
to guard

O'Kanata  nunatsia
O Canada  beautiful land (nunatsia is the same as Nunatsiaq, the Northwest Territories)

Nangiqpugu   mianiripluti
we stand up  to guard

O'Kanata  salagijauquna
O Canada  overcome challenges?

The last word is really hard. The contexts where I find the root "saligi" refer to challeges, achivement and assistance, but I can't quite figure out the morphology. I'm not really sure about the morphology of mianiripluti either, but the root mianiri definitely means to guard, to watch over, to supervise and to manage. The rest I feel pretty good about. I warned you I couldn't speak Inuktitut.

So, you might put it as:

O'Kanata nangmini Nunavut
Our very own land

Piqujatii Nalattiaqpavut
To its commands, we listen closely 

Angiglivalliajuti sanngijulutillu
It's growth and its strength

Nangiqpugu O'Kanata 
We stand, O Canada

Mianiripluti 
On guard

O'Kanata nunatsia
O Canada, beautiful land

Nangiqpugu mianiripluti
We stand on guard

O'Kanata  salagijauquna
O Canada, to meet challenges

I corrected the Inuktitut typos on O Canada.

The lack of confirmation of the text as "offical" merits some note. However, the long version of the lyrics seems to have originated on a defunct page run by a teacher at the Leo Ussak school in Rankin Inlet. I suspect that it's therefore an authentic but informal translation. For the short version, it's plausible that it's in some way official, but I can't find anything about it.

You decide what to do about it. I'll write up the Inuktitut in syllabics if you want, but I'm not sure you should trust an amateur translation like the one I've given you enough to put it on the page.

Diderot 10:22, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Cool! Thanks Diderot! --Ben 21:41, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] South Park?

Why does South Park deserve mention here?

[edit] Original poem by Weir

The text there is repetitive of the opening. I think it should be shortened, maybe deleted. Lee S. Svoboda 02:29, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Official" Versions of O Canada

There appears to be some confusion regarding the "official" status of various versions of O Canada throughout Canadian history. To clarify the point, many versions were written and sung, and several changes were made. However, no version of O Canada was ever official until our constitution was signed in 1980. At that time, some changes were made (ex. "From far and wide" and "God keep our land").

For a full history of O Canada, visit Canadian Heritage (National Anthem: O Canada), which I have added to the External Links.

Brent Woods 01:06, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken, there is no direct connection between the adoption of O Canada as national anthem and the patriation of the constitution. In fact, the adoption of O Canada came first. HistoryBA 03:53, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
Oops! You are right. I researched this further and found that the National Anthem Act was in 1980, and the Constitution Act was in 1982. I stand corrected. Brent Woods 06:46, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Connection with Die Zauberflöte

When I came back here and discovered the claim about Lavallée having been inspired by Die Zauberflöte, I was pretty confident it was garbage: if such a link could really be shown, I'd have heard about it.

Then I listened to March of the Priests, and aftr hearing it is pretty easy to believe that could've been Lavallée's inspiration. Very interesting.

That said, a piece of interesting speculative trivia like this probably shouldn't be featured so early on, and it would be nice to get a reference to attribute this idea to as well. (I don't consider either of these bad enough to justify the claim's removal, however.) --Saforrest 12:28, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

The beginning four-note motif is the same, and 7 out of the first 8 notes are the same note-for-note. The melody structure is similar. I'm not sure how many professional composers in the 19th century had not heard of Mozart's popular opera. Shawnc 12:10, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Note: Today, I heard Liszt's Festklänge, a symphonic poem (S.101, R.418) on NPR that very clearly had the "O Canada" theme in it throughout. It is note for note identical through "o canada, my home and native land" and stays close for another line or 2. It can most clearly be heard at the end. I think that this is the inspiration.

German version:

Ach Kanada! Unser Heim und Nation! Echt patriot Liebe in all dein Sohnen command. Mit glowing hearts wir seh dich rise, Das Echtes Nord strong und frei! From far and wide, Ach Kanada, Wir stand on guard für dich. Gott keep unser land glorious und Frei! Ach Kanada, wir stand on guard für dich! Ach Kanada, wir stand on guard für dich!

I have started attempting to create German lyrics for this ol' anthem of Canada's (Kanada) but I could complete it, could someone else? Myrtone@O Canada.com.au

[edit] to whomever removed 'The Simpsons' details

Aarrrgh..! Yet more time spent inputing work at the website undone and not for the better. Who ever removed the quick mention of 'O Canada' being used in an episode of 'The Simpsons' has really ******* me off. The episode in question most certainly DID NOT spoof the anthem but used it is a highly respectful and deeply touching manner. So whoever you are who did this revert or just simply undoen my work with your own interpretation.. you are 100% wrong. I have ***** had it with this site.. not this page.. this site. The only reason i dont delete my account right now is I cannot be ******* bothered inputting 2 more minutes of my spare time here. The ******** who populate this place are ***** legion. Dirk Diggler Jnr 02:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

  • It takes much less time to revert than to rant. Don't get mad, get even. 0:) Wahkeenah 02:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
  • A tirade does not accomplish anything. It would be helpful if you could review the policies at Wikipedia:Assume good faith, Wikipedia:No personal attacks and Wikipedia:Civility. If you strongly disagree with an edit made by another user, revert the change and leave a (civil) note explaining your action on their talk page. If the two of you continue to disagree, seek consensus on this discussion page. --Skeezix1000 12:43, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
    • What I can suggest is move the information to the article on that specific episode and perhaps link it to here. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 02:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] translation of the french version.

"Il sait porter l'épée." Il sait porter la croix."

This was translated incorrectly, I think. The nuance doesn't suggest "can carry", which makes little sense, but that Canada "has carried our 'sword', and has borne our 'cross'" in the repeated defense of our 'new' nation. Think 1812 and WWI. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 156.34.13.246 (talk • contribs) .

I read it as: "It (Canada) knows (how) to wield the sword, it (Canada) knows (how) to bear the cross." Jonathan David Makepeace 20:29, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TV Show

Should there be some kind of comment regaurding the O Canada TV show? Here is more information (I barely know how to edit wikipedia, otherwise I would do it myself)

O Canada IMDB listing

I remember the show, but I am not sure how to tie it in. I am thinking about making a page listing the various meanings of O Canada. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 17:02, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Native?

When they say native in the national anthem, are they referring to the descendants of European settlers or are they talking about the actual natives, the people who were here first?

Methinks the author was using "native" in the strict sense of "the land in which one was born," whether one be big-N Native or not. Jonathan David Makepeace 20:27, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Artists

A list of artists who have recorded it, and the albums it appears on would be useful. Tim Long 19:18, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

We have some, but there are plenty of artists who have sung it, recorded it, been on CD's, that the list will be too hard to maintain. I do not think this is a good idea at all. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] O Canada

Can someone email me the French lyrics of the SECOND verse to O Canada? Thanks! Labk1@hotmail.com —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.251.145.195 (talk • contribs). of 06.11.06 - moved from top of the page to the end

I am not sure. Perhaps you may find them here: O Canada. I am sending you the e-mail. --Bhadani 15:48, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Copy of my e-mail

hi

French version.

The 1st verse is the official anthem of the french-speaking canadiens.

O Canada! Terre de nos aïeux, Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux! Car ton bras sait porter l'épée, Il sait porter la croix! Ton histoire est une épopée Des plus brillants exploits. Et ta valeur, de foi trempée, Protégera nos foyers et nos droits Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.

Sous l'œil de Dieu, près du fleuve géant, Le Canadien grandit en espérant, Il est né d'une race fière, Béni fut son berceau; Le ciel a marqué sa carrière Dans ce monde nouveau. Toujours guidé par Sa lumière, Il gardera l'honneur de son drapeau, Il gardera l'honneur de son drapeau.

De son patron, précurseur du vrai Dieu, Il porte au front l'auréole de feu; Ennemi de la tyrannie, Mais plein de loyauté, Il veut garder dans l'harmonie Sa fière liberté. Et par l'effort de son génie, Sur notre Sol asseoir la vérité, Sur notre Sol asseoir la vérité!

Amour sacré du trône et de l'autel Remplis nos cœurs de ton souffle immortel. Parmi les races étrangères Notre guide est la foi; Sachons être un peuple de frères, Sous le joug de la loi; Et répétons comme nos pères Le cri vainqueur: «Pour le Christ et le Roi» Le cri vainqueur: «Pour le Christ et le Roi».

perhaps it is ok - I am not sure as I do not know French.

--Bhadani 15:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Official Lyrics

Under the heading "Official lyrics" there appears to be some unecessary ranting. If it could be removed and replaced by the actual lyrics that would be spectacular. Thanks.

Jordan

I do not see the ranting at all, unless it was removed earlier. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 05:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks its cleared up now. It was just needless anti-canadian pro-american nonsense. Jordan

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