Template talk:Nutritionalvalue

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Contents 1 TfD nomination of Template:Nutritionalvalue 2 What do you think? 3 English language version 4 Nominated for deletion

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:Nutritionalvalue

Template:Nutritionalvalue has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. --Mike Sorensen 00:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

There is no such word in English language as "nutritionalvalue" and therefore the concocted word "nutritionalvalue" is not verifiable, not notable and flat out nonsense. Additionally, this is just an incomplete template that servers no purpose and it is misleading in its current state as any nutritional amounts are only "recommended" and not absolute amounts and as such should be supported by sources and references and should indicate if they are RDI for male, female, child, infant, etc. In the "Example" herein the amounts have no reference and they are fictitious and incorrect. --Mike Sorensen 00:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What do you think?

OK, enough playing for tonight. Let's see whether people start using it in articles. I can think of many refinements, such as

• nicer layout and color scheme;
• things like vitamins as a percentage of the recommended daily allowance;
• enable right as option instead of right=1,

but all this is of no use if the template isn't used. I wonder why this idea isn't already in wide use. Is it against wikipedia policy? There are two other templates which are used in very few places:

• Template:Nutritional information
• Template:Nutrition Facts

I think they look nicer, but this one is more flexible. Han-Kwang 23:42, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I notice this just got added to Butter, a featured article. I have several issues with the addition:

• Its appearance is pretty unattractive right now. Columns don't line up, some text is rammed together, etc.
• It doesn't specify a source. This is a crucial problem.
• An overall US-centricism, using US facts and US RDAs.

For these reasons I am removing the template from butter; I would suggest these issues be resolved before the template is widely applied. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:57, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments.

• Re source: For all boxes I added so far I used the USDA database. Would you suggest adding a line in the box with a link to this database?
• Re US-centrism: do you have an alternative? Are there large differences in RDA values between US and other countries? I don't think the numbers for various food products themselves are particularly US-biased, but the RDA values might. The alternative would be to just list quantities in mg, but even after adding some 20 of these boxes to various articles I can recall the numbers for only a few of the vitamins and minerals. At least RDA values should give a rough indication. One could make an article with the RDA values for various countries and link to that from this box, how about that?
• Re appearance: this is a relatively minor issue. The idea of having non-aligned columns is that the numbers in the middle column add up to numbers in the rightmost column. The nice thing of a template is that you can change the layout independently of the data.

Han-Kwang 20:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Re Source: I'd suggest a template param that let you specify an URL to the source, or something like that. Re US-centricism: Did you know that butter has a higher percentage of fat in Europe than in the U.S.? Significant regional differences in even basic foods exist. Compound that with recommended values like RDAs, and I'm quite uncomfortable that this template may encourage an oversimplified, region-centric view. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:04, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English language version

Could an English (as opposed to American) version be made, with fibre in place of fiber? The current American version looks very incongruous on pages that are otherwise in British English (e.g. Common Hazel) or Commonwealth English (e.g. Banana) - MPF 16:23, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I never thought of that, but yes of course. I changed the template and the two articles you mentioned. Han-Kwang 20:28, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks! There'll be a few others as well - basically, any crop with Old World origins is (or should be!) at UK, Commonwealth, etc., spellings - MPF 22:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nominated for deletion

There is no such word in English language as "nutritionalvalue" and therefore the concocted word "nutritionalvalue" is not verifiable, not notable and flat out nonsense. Additionally, this is just an incomplete template that servers no purpose and it is misleading in its current state. Any nutritional values should be supported by sources and references.

Disagree. The name of a template, in this case "nutritionalvalue", does not necessarily have to be a real word in itself. The name should be concise and easy to remember as well as meaningful to the function of the template. Since this template serves as a way of providing nutritional information on articles relating to food or whatnot, and the name of the template conveys that purpose well, I do not feel it needs to be changed. Furthermore, if you have a problem with the name of the template, discussing a new name for it in this discussion page (rather than suggesting the template be deleted) is the proper way to get it changed. As for the template being useless or misleading, I fail to see your reasoning behind such a claim; the template is neither useless (it provides useful information in relevant articles) nor misleading (the usage of the template is clear by reading the annotations on the actual template page and the template itself is easy to interpret). --Fnar^(talk) 21:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

This is encyclopedia and not "Make-it-yourself pedia"

If we go by your guidelines then we will open doors to more spam, as it will allow people to create their own nonsense words and then claim that they should be in wikipedia because they are "concise" and "easy to remember".

As far as being misleading the template contains info such as "Riboflavin (Vit. B2) 2 mg - 133%" which is a nonsense because it is at best a recommended nutritional amount as stated by some regulatory or advisory panel or group. As those guidelines vary from country to country and from one research paper to another, (not even mentioning from one human being to another) stating any numbers in a template about nutritional values should be supported by references . The word "recommended" , that is not even mentioned here, is rather important in this case. Therefore in its current state the template is misleading and useless. Furthermore there is nothing wrong with English words "Nutritional Value" and there is no need to create some concatenations of those words. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mike Sorensen (talk • contribs).

Disagree - I wouldn't mind if the template is moved to "Nutritional Value" with a space and/or capitalization, or "Nutritional information", or something else within reason, if that makes Mike more happy. But he will also carry the burden of updating all the referring articles, because I won't be doing that. The footnote mentions that it is "US RDI for adults". I was assuming that the R in RDI stands for "recommended" as in RDA, but it actually means "Reference". I'm willing to change the footnote text into "US recommendations for adult males" and update the values (they are now averages of adult males and nonpregnant females). You may not agree with the USDA recommendations, but the source of the numbers is clearly mentioned and verifiable. I think it is rather inappropriate to propose a deletion for a page that could be modified to alleviate your concerns. Han-Kwang 21:21, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

This article can not be modified because in its title there is a word that does not exist in English language. I have no problem with moving the content, assuming that it is updated and corrected, but please refrain from making statements such as: "...he will also carry the burden of updating..." . I is not your business to assign any burdens to me. You created an article with an erroneous title in the first place, so if you want it to be moved or preserved than it is your burden to move it and not somebody else's.--Mike Sorensen 23:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Um... use the move tab at the top of the screen to move it...? -Amarkov ^blah_edits 00:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Mike, the template name is only visible to editors, not to someone who just reads an article, so the name isn't that relevant IMO. I personally don't see the need to spend a lot of time in changing this, but if you see it as a problem, then be bold and fix it. Again, if you want to move the name to a proper English name, and update all referring articles, then I am completely fine with that. After that, you can also open the discussion on other templates with non-English names such as {{prod}} (the one you used to start this discussion), {{test2}}, {{inuseuntil}}, {{TotallyDisputed}}, {{tl}}, {{dabneeded}}, {{otheruses2}}, and so on. Han-Kwang 10:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)