Talk:Number Twelve, Grimmauld Place

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Contents 1 Kreacher 2 White sheep 3 The Street 4 Owner 5 Outside appearance 6 Knight Bus?

[edit] Kreacher

Does Kreacher still count as a permanent resident? Sonic Mew | talk to me 19:41, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

Point. I'll add a note of that.

[edit] White sheep

It eventually passed into the hands of Sirius, the "white sheep" - I get the joke, but is it a good idea? Slobo 11:35, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Why wouldn't it be? "White sheep" is an existing term for the opposite of a black sheep. --Kizor 14:58, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I didn't see that. My fault. Slobo 15:05, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Street

Grimmauld Place is the name of the street that Number 12 is on. The house itself is NOT called Grimmauld Place, or Dumbledore would have only written "Grimmauld Place, London" on the piece of paper. The name of the house is, like Number 4 (Privet Drive), Number 12.

I'm going to take it upon myself to reflect this. PantherFoxie 17:21, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, even I thought of the same thing. The title of the article should be Number 12 (or 12), Grimmauld Place, London (well london may be optional...) Jam2k 09:54, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

M'daughter (not named Merope) noticed that "Grimmauld" sounds like Grimaldi, the name of the wealthy, hereditary ruling family of Monaco.

[edit] Owner

In the code it shows Harry as the owner, but this isn't shown on the page, can someone sort it? Gary Kirk 16:17, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

The current template doesn't have provisions for the "owner" variable to be used, so therefore it isn't displayed. I'm going to leave the "owner" definition in there for now, to allow for the potential future expansion of the HP Place template, though I have no real objections if someone else chooses to remove it from the code. --Deathphoenix 18:30, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Outside appearance

The article says that the house appears small to Muggles. I didn't think anyone could see it at all because of the Fidelius Charm. I thought that the house was not visible at all until Harry read the note from Dumbledore. Can someone point out to me where in the OotP it says that the house appears small to Muggles?

And while I'm mentioning the Fidelius Charm, I don't understand the reasoning of the third sentence below:

"After Dumbledore's death, the Fidelius spell may have broken. Unless a new Secret-Keeper is installed by the Order, Grimmauld Place could be again uncovered. This is, however, unlikely, seeing as Snape used the Fidelius spell as a excuse for not being able to reveal the location of OotP Headquarters to Voldemort."

Snape used the Fidelius Charm as a reason before Dumbledore was killed, so that doesn't indicate that the Charm would continue to work after his death.

I'd like to change these two sections, unless someone can help me understand the reasoning behind them. Thanks! Kam Tonnes 00:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

As revealed yesterday by JK Rowling at http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_poll.cfm when a secret keeper dies, the secret dies with them. So I edited this section to include this. However, I do not know how to include footnotes, so if someone can please add the footnote with the link directing it to the proper page. Billvoltage 01:12, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Everyone who they told still knows, and because the Fidelius Charm is no longer, the people who know are now able to tell others. Thus the house is less than "forever safe". Noneofyourbusiness 13:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, that's not true. Only the secret-keeper can reveal the secret behind a Fidelius charm, and the charm is still in effect even though the secret-keeper is now deceased. Therefore, the secret cannot be revealed by anyone and only the people who currently know the location of 12 Grimmauld Place will be able to find it. Jwkpiano1 18:38, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Re the house appearing small to muggles - if they'd been able to see it before the fidelius charm, I'm not saying taht it would have appeared small and modest to muggles, but the chances of there being a relatively opulent house, let alone mansion in that area of London (especially if it's also slightly east of King's Cross - the area is not a pleasant one and still looks like a slum in places) are small, as things tend to get vandalised, windows broken etc etc quite a lot. If it is a mansion or something, then it's unlikely to looklike it from the outside. Starryeyedguy 22/10/06

[edit] Knight Bus?

How was Hermione able to take the Knight Bus to 12 Grimauld Place? She couldn't have told the location to Stan Shunpike, because she was not Secret-Keeper. ---Ransom (--69.111.109.108 00:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC))