Talk:Nu, pogodi!

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents 1 HIPPOPOTAMUS 2 Sexual orientation 3 OK, may Russian lesbian who enjoed to watch this cartoon in her childhood join to discussion? 4 New episodes in December 2005? 5 Sexual Innuendoes?! 6 Hare is not female

[edit] HIPPOPOTAMUS

The captain of the ship is not a hippo, but a WALRUS, watch the ship episode again!

[edit] Sexual orientation

So what if the Woolf is gay? (And what if he is not?) What is important, is that he IS, for many people, a positive hero, see the wiki article, or just watch the entire series, and get to know more about the USSR (i guess you are not even from Eastern Europe). He is always on the "wrong" side in everything, against the entire system, he is the main character, intelligent, talented, but officially bad. We should not emphasise the word "bad", but rather "officially". The woolf facing the movie tank when looking for the rabbit is telling a lot, just like when the rabbit is marching with his little drum while the woolf is playing the guitar.

An other important thing is that children don't understand it in the way as some adults might do. I know it, i saw these cartoons as a child several times, i loved them, and to me, just like to all the others i know, it was about a little rabbit (a child) running away from the big and scary (grown up) woolf, and i knew it also, by the way, that woolfs do eat rabbits sometimes, if the rabbit doesn't manage to run away. I also didn't always know if the Rabbit was a girl or a boy, but even that didn't matter. For children other things are important, than for grown ups. Seeing them now i do have some funny impressions, but everyone can understand it as he or she wants, that's why it is so wonderful.

And yes, if you want all tales have something like this in them: Little Red Riding Hood and the Woolf, Snow White etc etc... but it depends only on how YOU look at them.

Uff I spoke.

P.S.: About Tom and Jerry compared to Nu pogodi: Tom and Jerry have less personality, in my opinion, they are less human, and even less animal like. In No pogodi the Woolf has real woolf characteristics, the Cat Magician is really like a cat, and the little rabbit is rabbit like. Tom has nearly no cat characteristics, just look at the way he moves for instance. He is catish only when he appears in the beginning of the cartoon in the letter "o".

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 160.114.136.205 (talk • contribs) 19:35, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] OK, may Russian lesbian who enjoed to watch this cartoon in her childhood join to discussion?

OK, may Russian lesbian who enjoed to watch this cartoon in her childhood join to discussion?

(I'm sorry for my really bad English. I hope you'll be able to understand at least half the meaning.)

Wolf wears pink shirt because he's "styliaga" - mod, if you like. Mods were unsuitable role models for Sowiet children.

Hare is male. Though some very young children really thinks sometimes that maybe he's a girl. He's not. (But three or four years ago I've heard on TV that the creators themself had heard about this misconception and even wanted to make sequel about Wolf's intelligent son and Hare's rebellious daughter. I don't know what happend to this idea.)

And I'm sure that cartoon creators didn't mean nothing "gay". There was no sexual subtext. Wolf, being antisocial person, disliked clean and nise Hare, that's the only reason why he chased the boy. Hare impersonated Alla Pugachova just for audience's laughs... But there always are some gay or just slash-minded viewers (and I was slash-minded long before I've heard the word "slash"... and long before I understood my own preferences) who like to think there is something "intriguing" in characters' relationships. And, well, there always was some anecdotes, in my adolenscence at least (I've heard those mostly about Winnie-The-Poo, but some about Wolf and Hare too). So it's strange to assume that russian and even Sowiet viewers never-never-never!saw it that way. I even had read slash about Wolf and Hare on russian slash-site, so I know I'm not the only one who have such strange ideas about children's cartoon. But I'm just playing with this idea - i don't really think they are (or any single one of them is) gay. it's not Sowiet Ai No Kusabi - it's Sowiet Tom and Jerry. Are Tom and Jerry gay?

Well, that's all. Thanks for trying to read this. Your Redcrow.

[edit] New episodes in December 2005?

So is suggesting this article: http://www.cotidianul.ro/index.php?a=6199&shift=1 (in Romanian) bogdan ʤjuʃkə | ^Talk 21:25, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sexual Innuendoes?!

What the hell? Visiting somebody with flowers is considered a sexual innuendo? Americans are completely out of their minds. I'm sorry for making such generalizations, but it seems to me that there are major cultural differences here. I'll change that part slightly to reflect this.. Esn 08:29, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I just saw a clip on Google Video of Nu Pogodi and it DID seem like the wolf might have been intended an analogy for homosexuals and pedophiles (which are the same thing to people... ugh). I came here to see if that was something that had been discussed here. I do have to acknowledge that, it's coming from another culture, but here (Canada) the pink shirt, the effete behaviour, the limp wrist, and the pinky finger sticking up all imply a homosexual, not just an artsy type. The wolf's continuing attempts to get the young hare alone did seem like the cartoon might be trying to compare a wolf trying to eat a young rabbit to a man trying to get a child alone. Like perhaps it was teaching children to be wary of men in pink shirts with limp wrists and their pinkies in the air. That was, in fact, my immediate impression, after only halfway through one skit. (Only three were in the video) Mr. Cat 02:54, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Th cartoon is from different epoch, 60s. Coincidence. By the way, in Russia, a male homosexual is called goluboy, i.e., "sky blue". `'mikka (t) 03:00, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm too young to say for sure, but I think a North American cartoon from the 60s with a guy in a pink shirt, a pinkie in the air, and a limp wrist would still be implying he was a homosexual. So I don't think the era itself could be all 05:30, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, the only thing I can say is that I have not met anyone from the former USSR who interpreted it in that way. We must remember that homosexualism was really not a part of popular culture as it is in the West right now. It was simply a subject that was not familiar to audiences, so why would the creators put it in there, especially since everything had to get past the Soviet censors who would certainly not approve anything that they thought implied homosexuality (which was illegal in the Soviet Union)? I think it would be more accurate to say the the Wolf had a "feminine" side (as also shown by his many artistic talents). But one doesn't have to be a homosexual or a pedophile to have a feminine side - and besides that, there is some evidence that Wolf had an eye for women in the cartoons (such as in episode 3 where he had that painting on his motorbike) Esn 06:58, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll accept your assurances that it wasn't a common perception. Have you talked about the cartoon with any homosexuals who grew up with the cartoon or perhaps were 'in the closet' when the cartoon was airing? I'm still curious to know from that perspective. Mr. Cat 07:38, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

No, I did not. Anyone who fits that description, feel free to comment. Esn 03:57, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Esn's right, the show was pretty enjoyable and innocuous. Any interpretations that there were sexual connotations and innuendos in this show are just plain false. I don't know anyone who could have seen the film's details in such a manner. I think its just a matter of culture. In the USSR it was alrite for two men to kiss each other on the cheeks as a form of a greeting but in the United States, anyone would interpret those same two men as homosexuals when they weren't at all. Also, the article refers to "Hare" as "him", the rabbit was clearly a female character in the cartoon. --MarshallBagramyan 04:27, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Umm... no. If Hare was female, why did Hare wear the clothes of a boy? And in episode 17, both the wolf and the hare wore gentlemanly clothes in the opening sequence, and had white beards. I can't believe anyone could think that the Hare was female, that just seems so bizarre... yes, the hare was voiced by a woman, but it was common in Russian cartoons to have young children of both sexes voiced by women. Esn 15:58, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes there was also an episode where the wolf brings roses to Hare and even decide to drink something like champagne together. However, I find it bizarre that someone would consider the rabbit for a male. Maybe Hare was a male...--MarshallBagramyan 23:19, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it would be hard to find such person, since in USSR homosexuality was considered a major mental disorder and on top of that was as much despised in public, as (for example) pedophilia. Also that is why there were no common signs or gestures etc that could help identify a homosexual (and even if they were, they probably existed between very small groups of people), and that is why acceptible borders of man-to-man relations were broader than the ones in the Western countries.Pdfourteen 21:02, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

The perception of a particular scene, notion, or imagery really depends on the culture that is perceiving it, so it almost makes no sense in arguing whether the "sexual innuendoes" existed in this cartoon. I can confirm that, from the point of view of culture in which the film was created, it was absolutely clean, as much as anything can be, and that no representative of that culture, sensible or otherwise, would imagine any sexual content in it. It's not even that the evidence is needed; the standards for state control of media at the time were such that it was completely unimaginable for any movie with sexuality to be admitted for viewing, much less for a cartoon intended for children. Note that whether the themes presented are viewed as sexual or not by the contemprorary Western audience almost doesn't matter, since it's makes little sense to attempt to evaluate the more subtle points of a cartoon made in one culture from within a completely different one. IgorSF 06:01, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Good point - but the references to "sexual innuendoes" were already there when I came across this page, so I edited it to make it clear that they were NOT innuendoes of any kind in the culture in which the films were made. One could remove the references alltogether I suppose, but someone would probably just add them back in... Esn 02:54, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hare is not female

A response to MarshallBagramyan: The roses were an attempt of reconciliation on Wolf's part - obviously, it never came to anything. It wasn't romantic at all. Also - episode 6 (I believe) when Hare is a "pioneer" (equivalent to "Boy Scout" in America) along with the other lads on the plane. Quite simply: Hare does not look female to me. I'm looking at a picture and trying to picture him as female right now, and it's creeping me out. And for a final piece of proof, I scanned an image from a "Nu Pogodi" book that I bought in Russia some time ago. If you can read Russian, you will notice that it talks about Hare in the male tense. [1]

I do believe that this constitutes conclusive proof. --Esn 00:10, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually "pioneer" is not a boyscout and both boys and girls were "allowed" to join.
Anyway, Hare is male simply because the word "Hare" itself has a masculine gender in Russian (Zayatz). A female hare is called "Zaychiha". Pdfourteen 20:23, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, but at the start of the article it says "she" and at the end it says "he", someone should make it all one or the other, or just keep it vague ;) Dan Carkner 15:20, 17 August 2006 (UTC) PS. I also thought it seemed like the rabbit was gay in various ways and that the wolf was trying to fight against it, but I fully admit that is my current bias speaking ;P

Actually, the question of whether the Hare is male or female is an interesting one. I'm not entirely convinced he's male, as per discussion above. Just the name itself can't be used as a proof, since in Russian it's acceptable, if at times considered a colloquiality, to call a thing by its male version if the gender does not play a role in the discussion. I can completely imagine that the Hare's gender was not an intended thing for the readers to discover or discuss, and as such it was left undefined. IgorSF 06:10, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[2] - look, notice how the book refers to him in the male tense? Can't we put this issue to rest already? *sigh* Yes, hare was voiced by a woman - it was common in Russian cartoons for young boys to be voiced by female voices. Esn 02:43, 21 September 2006 (UTC)