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[edit] Homophobic Che
he even on one occassion ridiculed a gay batista official on their rebel radio in the seirra meastre. John Lee Anderson. Che Guevera: A Revolutionary Life. New York: Grove Press, 1997.
In Allen Ginsberg's biography he claims that he was kicked out of cuba because he said Che was cute and he wanted to sleep with him. Also as far as Che not knowing about homosexauls being sent to work camps, in the mid sixties, in cuba at that time there was very little that che didnt know was happening in cuba he knew he probably just didnt care beacuse it was no secret.
Jorge Castaneda's Companero:
"It was he [Che] who set up Cuba's first "labour camp" in those months, in Guanahacabibes. He spent a few days there, establishing one on the most heinous precedents of the Cuban revolution: the confinement of dissidents, homosexuals and later, AIDS victims."
Bruce la Bruce claims: Che once walked into the Cuban embassy in Nigeria and, seeing the books of Virgilio Piñera, the most important Cuban playwright of the 20th century, swept them to the floor, asking, “What are the books of that maricon [faggot] doing here?”
http://www.blackbookmag.com/Public/index.asp?Page_ID=19&AQ_Magazine_Date=Current&AQ_Magazine_ID=827
[edit] Gender variance
[edit] Bayard Rustin
In 1936, a young Bayard Rustin was active in the Young Communist League, USA, before shifting toward pacifism and the civil rights movement in the 1940s when he joined the socialistic Fellowship of Reconciliation. There, Rustin worked closely with black labor organiser A. Philip Randolph, and together they developed a belief that the labor movement offered the best hope for Black advancement. However, in 1953, Rustin was arrested during a casual homosexual encounter, and executive director A. J. Muste forced him out of the fellowship.[1] He Slowly rebuilt his career, in a less public role, and became an adviser and organiser for Martin Luther King in 1960. However, King broke publicly with Rustin over fear that Rustin's homosexuality would be used against the movement. In 1963, working again with Randolph, Rustin organised the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, but was denied any public recognition of his role by NAACP chairman Roy Wilkins, and the title of "director of the march" went instead to Randolph. Ironically, the FBI's J. Edgar Hoover claimed to have a large file detailing Randolph's own homosexual activities, but Randolph wasn't publicly known to be gay as Rustin was. Rustin's biographer John D'Emilio argues that Rustin apparently turned to the Right in the 1960s in part because of the homophobia that denied him a place among progressive social movements of the time.[2] Rustin became an advocate of gay rights in his later years.
- Classic works by black nationalists Frantz Fanon and Eldridge Cleaver identified homosexuality in black men as a mental illness symptomatic of the totality of their subjugation by whites. President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe has blocked organization for gay and lesbian rights in that nation on the grounds that these efforts are the work of white agitators who present a neocolonial threat.
[edit] Harlem renaissance, LGBT writers and the Left
Claude McKay's 1922-23 pilgrimage to the Soviet Union, for example, usually recalled as a lighthearted adventure in radical tourism, actually jumpstarted the Comintern's controversial nation-centered program for Afro America. Breaking from studies governed by Cold War investments and pivoting on the Great Depression, Maxwell argues that Communism's rare sustenance for African-American initiative—not a seduction of Depression-scarred innocents—brought scores of literary "New Negroes" to the Old Left. [3] In Home to Harlem (1927), Jamaican-born Claude McKay (1899-1948) openly discusses Harlem's black experience with lesbianism and even has a significant black gay male character.
- Men: Alain Locke, Countee Cullen, Langston Hughes, Claude McKay, Wallace Thurman (bisexual socialist), Richard Bruce Nugent, and even the famous white sponsor Carl Van Vechten.
- Women: Angelina Weld Grimké, Alice Dunbar-Nelson.
Another "independent radical magazine" to appear on the scene was the Modern Quarterly, launched by V.F. Calverton in 1923.[4] Calverton was an avowed marxist, although disctanced from the Left for his support of black politics. As a good radical, Calverton argued for an open attack on this economic system, and was thus aligned with other radicals in the "class warfare" mentality as a way to end racial oppression (Genizi 244). Between 1925 and 1929, at the true height of Renaissance achievement, Modern Quarterly was a forum for the thoughts of DuBois, Alain Locke, and E. Franklin Frazier among others. It was also a forum for the voices of many prominent Harlem Renaissance writers, especially those who engaged, however sporadically, in proletarian literature, e.g., Zora Neale Hurston, Langston Hughes, Claude McKay and Rudolph Fisher. By providing room for exposition of thought, he supplied the black intelligentsia, and especially the leftist literati, a powerful and influential forum, one that was significantly lacking in the white press and Communist Party publications.
A small group of Left intellectuals around the Modern Quarterly, seeking to integrate sexology into a heavily anthropological "science of society," had little short-run impact upon the Left political movement. They did, however, help to keep alive a sexual element in the radical attack upon American racism. While Leninist workerism forbade the open return of the free love subject, a subterranean connection had already been made between interracialism and the principles of free love. Further connections with jazz, poetry and anti-war sentiments flourished in the bohemian and Beat movements of the late 1940s to early 1960s, with free love (including homosexuality) a measure of cultural bravado and a practical arrangement for transient lifestyles.
James Gilbert accurately notes that the concept of bohemianism was denounced as bourgeois by the New York crowd and seen, therefore, as a competitor to the radical movement (96). Certainly much of the Harlem Renaissance literature was bohemian, especially after the publication of Carl Van Vechten’s Nigger Heaven. Indeed, Harlem was in vogue mostly because of this bohemian appeal. Due to this, much of the literature of the 1920s was denounced as apolitical exotica.
- Refs:
- ^ A. J. Muste wrote to Rustin: "You were capable of making the 'mistake' of thinking that you could be the leader in a revolution...at the same time that you were a weakling in an extreme degree and engaged in practices for which there was no justification."
- ^ D'Emilio, John. "Homophobia and the Trajectory of Postwar American Radicalism: The Career of Bayard Rustin." Modern American Queer History. Allida M. Black, ed. Philadelphia: Temple University Press, 2001. 79-99.
- ^ William J. Maxwell. 1999. New Negro, Old Left: African-American Writing and Communism Between the Wars. July, 1999. Columbia University Press. ISBN 0-231-11425-7
- ^ http://www.rlc.dcccd.edu/annex/COMM/english/mah8420/HRandRadicalLit.htm
[edit] works in progress
User:Ntennis/Sign language, User:Ntennis/alt media
[edit] Notes
John Addington Symonds was in the forefront of the "bourgeois radical" men and women with socialist ideals who were destined to reform public opinion in the 1890s. He was a dynamic member of that remarkable group of men concerned with art who worked towards a revival of culture, often in conjunction with politics: John Ruskin, Walter Pater, Dante Gabriel Rossetti, William Morris, Edward Carpenter, Oscar Wilde. His specific contribution to the regeneration of society was as a pioneer in the field of gay rights; he was the first modern historian of (male) homosexuality, and the first advocate of gay liberation in Britain.
[edit] To Do List (old)
[edit] General
- upload images
- Get images of manual alphabets around the word and expand fingerspelling and manual alphabet pages
- Linguistics of sign language - eg Pro-drop language, Topic comment syntax
- deaf page : history, communication methods, deaf people in tv, film and literature, etc
- forest blockade
- La Regla Arara
- swoon hypothesis - add "The man who became God", Gérald Méssadie
- Nicolas Notovitch, The Unknown Life of Christ (1894)
- Jesus in India
Barbara Thieringadd buddhist perspectives to the ordination of women article.Manually Coded Language- Signed Indonesian: Sistem Isyarat Bahasa Indonesia (SIBI), distinct from natural signs (isyarat spontan). Total Communication was used in schools from 1980; Indonesian was spoken and accompanied by signs taken first from local sign languages and then in some cases from American Sign Language. Karya Mulia school in Surabaya introduced ASL signs). The Indonesian Department of Education soon began to study the development of a standardized system of signs that could be used nationally (‘‘isyarat yang baku yang dapat digunakan secara nasional’’) (Departemen Pendidikan dan Kebudayaan , ix). Work began in , stopped in , and was restarted in . SLB-B Ziannia produced an Indonesian Language Sign Dictionary in that was ‘‘improved on’’ by the Working Party on Special Education from the Institut Keguruan and Ilmu Pendidikan (IKIP) Jakarta in .In, the Department of Education and Culture set up committees to produce the standardized dictionary that had been recently published (ibid.). Total communication in Indonesia is thus overtly monolingual, given its focus entirely on signed Indonesian; moreover, it is national in its orientation and attempts to make oralism more effective. Signed Indonesian is, however, a strange camel, the product of a committee, and consists of nothing more than a collection of frozen signs plus signs for suffixes and prefixes; tied to the written, formalized form of the language, it has none of the fluidity and flexibility of natural sign languages. Signed Indonesian: SIBI Signing has in the last few years been brought to the attention of the general public by its presence on television, as part of the Indonesian language news broadcast, which uses an interpreter to sign the news. The interpreter uses SIBI, the manually coded version of Indonesian mentioned earlier, which developed from the earlier ISYANDO. The signers are teachers from the school for deaf students in Jogjakarta in central Java. None of the students at the deaf schools in Bali or any of the other deaf people in Buleleng can understand the signing. Only one of the teachers in Singaraja is trained to use it.
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- This Indonesian Language Sign [Gesture] System Dictionary [Kamus Sistem Isyarat Bahasa Indonesia] contains signs including signs for affixes and numerals. The data for the Indonesian Language Sign System Dictionary was collected from a number of resources, such as the Sign Dictionary developed by the Institute for the Development of Total Communication, Zinnia Educational Foundation, Jakarta, the Dictionary of Indonesian Language Signs developed by the Working Party on Special Education (KKPLB), IKIP Jakarta, the Sign Dictionary developed by the Karya Mulya Foundation, Surabaya, American Sign Language (ASL), British Sign Language, Sign for Singapore, plus signs developed by our own Dictionary Writing Team. The word list for the Dictionary was taken from the Indonesian language syllabus for the Elementary School. (Departemen Pendidikan dan Kebudayaan. . Kamus sistem isyarat Bahasa Indonesia, edisi pertama. Jakarta: Departemen Pendidikan dan Kebudayaan.)
[edit] Sexuality/gender
- Reed Erikson, Virginia Prince, Helene Stöcker
- Margaret Mead's role advocating the normalcy of homosexuality
- biology stuff like parthenogenesis talking about the "male" role and "female" role, "fake" male etc.
- lots of moralistic tone on articles about paraphilias, the category Category:Sexual and gender identity disorders with language such as "The cause of fetishism is often complex, but frequently includes doubts about the patient's own masculinity or potency and feelings of inadequacy. Treatment is normally long-term counselling and/or drug therapy"
[edit] Language
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fix tenor into dabfix register to more than formality- see Universe of discourse- field
- style
- Genre
- Affect
Diatype
- and categorise them all
note Christianese, Polari, Leet etc
make Australian Aboriginal sign languages page- Sign languages used by both deaf and hearing in communities with high incidence of hereditary deafness: al-sayyid, kala kotok, MVSL, OKSL, Rennellese Sign Language (Solomon Islands), Village of Nohya (Yucatan Maya), Gran Cayman Islands, Surinam(e), (new) Guinea, Ghana
[edit] List of deafness-related topics
[edit] Syndromes associated with deafness
- Waardenburg syndrome
- Usher syndrome
- CHARGE syndrome
- Maternal Rubella syndrome
[edit] Reference
- Wikipedia:Topical index listing of all pages in Wikipedia namespace
[edit] FAQs
[edit] Editing in Wikicode
- Cascading_Style_Sheets
- X11_Color_Names
- HTML color list
- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template
- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Inputbox
- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template_names%2C_variable_names_and_parameters_depending_on_a_variable_or_parameter
- Help:Table
- Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax
- templates
- Wikipedia:Footnote3
- → ← small text
- Template_talk:Divbox
[edit] Wikiness
[edit] Proposals
[edit] Glory box
[edit] Diplomacy
- [edit wars] WP:EW
- [dispute resolution] WP:DR
- Wikipedia:Requests for comment
- Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts
- Wikipedia:Vandalism
- Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress
- Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress/Long term alerts
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR
[edit] Other
[edit] Fun
[edit] Bookmarks
[edit] Reference
[edit] Spirituality
[edit] Radical Xtians and Heretics
Community-based, anti-heirarchical, anti-materialist, pro-women christians and christian movements from history. Many of them advocated an un-mediated/direct relationship with god (often a mystical thread) and were naturally supressed by the church.
- Jesus - ;) Jesus was against rich people and mixed with social outcasts. A (nonviolent) rebel against the Roman occupation of Judea (for which he was executed). Hyam Maccoby attributed the blame for the death of Jesus on the Roman authorities and their Jewish collaborators from the Sadducee party, whose members included most of the Jewish high priesthood. He considered the Gospel accounts of the hostility between Jesus and the Pharisees as an invention of the Pauline Church, and even claimed that Jesus himself subscribed to some form of Pharisaic Judaism. He believed Judas Iscariot was an invention of the Pauline church, and used as an archetypal Jew (betrayed Christ for money).
- In Ebionite belief, Jesus's blood relatives included his mother Mary, his father Joseph, his unnamed sisters, and his brothers James the Just, Joses, Simon and Jude; in Pauline Christian belief, Mary is counted as a blood relative, Joseph only as a foster father and the rest as half brothers or cousin. see this.
- Acts of the pinkos: The community of believers were of one heart and one mind. None of them ever claimed anything as his own; rather, everything was held in common. With power the apostles bore witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great respect was paid to them all; nor was there anyone needy among them, for all who owned property or houses sold them and lay them at the feet of the apostles to be distributed to everyone according to his need. (Acts 4:32-35; see also 2:42-47)
- James the commie (Epistle_of_James) states that "faith without works is dead" (James 2:26 KJV). also: "Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you." (James 5:1-6).
- Nazarenes — early Jewish followers of john the baptist and jesus in Jeruslaem. They were appalled at paul's invention of christianity, and were slaughtered by the Romans in the Roman-Jewish War of 66-70 CE, and the Gentile Church founded by Paul emerged as the winner. The Ebionites may be an offshooot of the Jerusalem sect, and probably have sayings more faithful to the original teachings than Paul had. The Ebionites emphasized the humanity of Jesus as the mortal son of Mary and Joseph, who was 'adopted' as a son of God when he was anointed with the Holy Spirit at his baptism. They didn't beleive in his ability to perform miracles. The Ebionites revered the Desposyni (a sacred name reserved only for Jesus' blood relatives), especially James the Just, as the legitimate apostolic successors of Jesus, rather than Peter. Their ideas may have been in conflict with the gnostics.
- Peter Waldo and Waldensians — 12th century anti-heirarchical anti-materialist heretic, prominent leader of a group that allowed women preachers. Following Matthew 23: "All of you are brethren", the Waldensians believed that the Pope and bishops were guilty of homicides. They believed that the land and its people should not be divided up, that bishops and abbots ought not to have royal rights and that the clergy should not own possessions. They believed that none of the sacraments, including marriage, were of any effect. They became victims of the inquisition. Papal representatives continued to devastate towns and villages into the mid 16th century as the Waldensians became absorbed into the wider Protestant Reformation.
- Gnosticism — some of these early christian churches were community-based and resisted the church heirarchy, allowing all members (including women) to preach. However some made the elitist disctinction between those with knowledge (pneumatics) and those without, and some beleived that the worl was evil. They were also brutally persecuted and defamed by the church establishment. Orthodox Jews and Christians insist that a chasm separates humanity from Its creator: God is wholly other. But some of the gnostics who wrote these gospels contradict this: self-knowledge is knowledge of God; the self and the divine are identical.
- Gospel of Thomas — 'sayings' gospel often associated with gnosticism.
- Montanus (mid-2nd century) travelled the countryside preaching with two women, Prisca/Priscilla, and Maximilla, speaking in tongues, having a gnostic-like "direct experience of god", branded a heretic by the roman church. The first christian writer in latin, Tertullian (ca. 155–230), who converted to montanism later in life, stated in De Monogamia 3, speaking about Jesus, “...He stands before you, if you are willing to copy him, as a voluntary spado (eunuch) in the flesh.” The term spado used throughout this treatise had traditionally be translated “virgin”. It is, however, a term typically used for “castrated”. The Skoptsy (18th-20th century) also believed it to be true and castrated themselves. Tertullian also wrote that he knew, personally, the author of the Gospel of Matthew, and that he was a eunuch.
- The Cathars believed that souls would be reborn. The way to escape was to live an ascetic's life, and to be not corrupted by the world. Those that did live this life were called 'Perfects' (Parfaits). They had the power to wipe away a person's sins and connections to the material world, so that they would go to heaven when they died. The Perfects themselves lived lives of unimpeachable frugality, in stark contrast to those that lived within the corrupt and opulent church of the time. They did not perform any rite of marriage, as procreation (bringing more souls into the world) was frowned upon. It was as a result of this particular belief that the term "buggery" was coined (after the 'Bulgars', or 'Bougres') since if they were to give in to sexual temptation, this would at least ensure that no children resulted. Most Cathars, believed that Jesus had been an apparition, a ghost, that showed the way to God. They refused to believe that the good God could or would come in material form, since all physical objects were tainted by sin. This specific belief is called docetism. Furthermore, they believed that the God of the Old Testament was the Devil, since he had created the world. They also did not believe in any sacrament except the consolamentum, which was another major heresy. Women were treated as equals, because their physical form was irrelevant; their soul could have been a man's soul before, and it might once again become one. Cathar Perfects were also vegans. They were required to avoid eating anything considered to be a by-product of sexual reproduction, including cheese, eggs, milk and butter. Having said this, they were allowed to eat fish, as little was then known about the mating habits of marine creatures which were generally believed to simply appear spontaneously in the sea. The Inquisition was established in 1229 to root out the Cathars. For a few hundred years they were slaughtered, burned at the stake, and hid to escape persecution.
- In the same region, peasant revolts in later years by the Camisards carried on the tradition
- David of Dinant (12th century) - A Belgium-born pantheistic philosopher
- The Brethren of the Free Spirit (Brüder und Schwestern des Freien Geistes) was a medieval heretical pantheistic movement form around 1200AD. Also slaughtered by the inquisition. Later adherents rejected the Christian concepts of creation and redemption, saying that since all was God, there could be no sin, and any action whatsoever was permitted. They taught the "Freedom of the Spirit" in the sense that the human soul, like God, was considered beyond and above the concepts of Good and Evil, an argument similar to teachings of Tantric Buddhism. They also referred to themselves as illuminati. During the 14th century, the heresy spread widely across the Champagne, Thüringen and Bavaria. The Beghards of Cologne celebrated masses naked. It was a time of great social unrest, and there were other movements such as Catharism and flagellantism. Meister Eckhart's teachings were precariously close to those of the Brethren, but he escaped excommunication by retracting 28 incriminated theses in 1327. They disappeared by the end of hte 14th century.
- Radical Reformation peasant groups opposed to the old (catholic) and the new (lutheran) world order. To them, the Church only consisted of the tiny community of believers, who accepted Jesus Christ by adult baptism, called "believer's baptism". Many Anabaptist groups were spawned, such as Mennonites, Amish, and Hutterites. Thousands were tortured and killed by both catholics and protestants, which is one of the reasons they fled to america.
- Drummer of Niklashausen — Hans Boehm, peasant leader, executed 1476. The virgin Mary came to him when he was a shepherd and called him to be a prophet. Taxes were to be abolished, no one was to have more than another, and all men were to live as brothers. His fame soon spread throughout central and southern Germany, and crowds of pilgrims, put as high as 40,000, thronged to hear him. He seems to have intended to lead them in an armed uprising, but Bishop Rudolf of Würzburg had him arrested on July 12 1476, and warded off the danger of a great peasants' war. Two days later, 16,000 of his followers appeared to rescue him, but were dispersed; and on the 19th, a recantation having been extorted from him, he perished on the scaffold as a heretic and enchanter.
- Jakob Böhme - German christian mystic
- The Skoptzy (Скопцы), who practiced castration of men and removal of breasts from women in order to enforce sexual abstinence (!)
- Anti-establishment christian communities, often pacifists, non-heirarchical, strong communities, simple living, anti-materialist, some vegetarian, most very sexually conservative:
- 17th century british radical communities: Seekers (believed all organised religion to be corrupt), Ranters, Quakers, Shakers (eschewed marriage and sex, adopted children, strong gender segregation), Diggers and Levelers (secular), Muggletonians
- Russian diaspora communities: Doukhobors, Molokans, Freedomites
- Radical Reformation Anabaptist groups: Mennonites, Hutterites, Amish, Church of the Brethren, Brethren of the Free Spirit (13th century)
- Peace churches
- liberation theology
- Elaine Pagels — scholar of early christianity.
- http://exchristian.org/
[edit] Conservative Xtians and peddlers of predudice
- Thomas Aquinas held that heresy should be punished by death, in ST II:II 11:3. He also maintained the intellectual inferiority of women and their subjection to men on that account (ST I:92:1), which is why he opposed the ordination of women (ST Supp. 39:1). He also said masters have the right to strike their slaves to punish them. (ST II:II 65:2), and preached that the Jews were damned because they had slain Jesus, and the only way they could be saved was to renounce their faith and be baptized as Christians. Though he did say that (unfair) profit from trade, charging interest on loans etc, constitued theft and was in defiance of the golden rule, and that it was immoral to gain financially without actually creating something (see Just price).
- Paul of Tarsus — misogynist, anti-semite, apologist of slavery, supporter of the Roman empire and Architect of Christianity. According to Maccoby, the founding of Christianity as a religion separate from Judaism was entirely the work of Paul of Tarsus. This gentile christianity was consolidated in 312 when emperor of the Roman empire Constantine I adopted Christianity as his imperial cult, then in 325 with the First Council of Nicaea which set the orthodoxy in place and finally when it became the Empire's sole official religion in 394 under Emperor Theodosius I. Christianity and the will of God gradually came to be identified with the will of the ruling elite. Paul argued that women should remain silent in the churches. "They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. -1 Cor 14:34 NIV
- John Knox — Presbyterian who wrote The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstrous Regiment of Women in 1558
- any of the Popes.
- Augustine of Hippo — anti-semite and apologist for the Roman Empire and it's support by christianity.
- Martin Luther — In his book "On the Jews and their Lies", he wrote that Jews are "venomous beasts, vipers, disgusting scum, canders, devils incarnate. Their private houses must be destroyed and devastated, they could be lodged in stables. Let the magistrates burn their synagogues and let whatever escapes be covered with sand and mud. Let them force to work, and if this avails nothing, we will be compelled to expel them like dogs in order not to expose ourselves to incurring divine wrath and eternal damnation from the Jews and their lies."
- Luther and John Calvin defended the practise of usury which laid the groundwork for modern capitalism.
[edit] Mysticism and theology
- Metatron
- Immanence — (also pantheism) god in/is everything. god=nature/the universe.
- Hieros Gamos — ancient sex ritual of coupling with (a) god.
- Category:Entheogens, Entheogen
- "To say that a thing is imaginary is not to dispose of it in the realm of mind, for the imagination, or the image making faculty, is a very important part of our mental functioning. An image formed by the imagination is a reality from the point of view of psychology; it is quite true that it has no physical existence, but are we going to limit reality to that which is material? We shall be far out of our reckoning if we do, for mental images are potent things, and although they do not actually exist on the physical plane, they influence it far more than most people suspect." —Dion Fortune
[edit] Other stuff I like
readymade links
- Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page
- Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style
- Wikipedia:Special_characters
- Wikipedia:Find or fix a stub
- Wikipedia:Most active Wikipedians
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My political compass: Economic Left/Right: -6.88, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.13
testing my IP number :)
- --61.68.167.38 10:19, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC) (bigpond)
- --61.68.169.210 01:11, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC) (dodo)
- --60.240.165.91 00:13, 21 October 2005 (UTC) (TPG)
- --60.240.165.91 08:14, 21 October 2005 (UTC) (TPG)
bugger - hoping it was 61.68.25.73 so i could get attribution for at least a couple of previous edits.