Template talk:NS Uni

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[edit] AST - private

It doesn't make sense that Atlantic School of Theology should be designated differently from the other universities in Nova Scotia (ie. private) when other universities containing theology schools are not categorized in the same manner. I can think of several off-hand which do not receive this treatment: Acadia, with its Acadian Divinity College; Toronto with its School of Theology; McMaster with its McMaster Divinity College, etc. If AST is private, why shouldn't these institutions also be designated as private universities on their respective provincial templates? Plasma east 06:18, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

They already do. Look at Template:BC Uni for example. Ontario's doesn't list one because when I went to do it, I couldn't find any with Wikipedia articles. And only the main school is on the template. If for example McMaster Divinity College is part of McMaster University (which I don't know if it is or not, it's an example) then it's not listed. Only the main article is. Why not instead create a template for all the Bible colleges instead? --Spinboy 06:24, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

U of T is a public University. It's Board of Governors is appointed by the Queen in right of Ontario. --Spinboy 06:28, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It may well be that boards down here are also appointed by gov't, just like U of T, although I don't really know the particulars for every institution's governance. McMaster Divinity College, like Acadia's, is a baptist seminary affiliated with their respective universities, which were founded by that church, although they are affiliated with different conventions. They are still theology schools at public universities, just like AST.

A separate template might be an idea for theology schools & bible colleges, but I think where a university like AST is publicly funded, it should be in the NS Uni template and regarded in the same fashion as the rest of the institutions included which are publicly funded. Any bible colleges, etc. which are not accredited (even if they have a degree granting charter) could just be included in the NS Colleges & Universities category. I'm really not very familiar with bible colleges and what these institutions provide in terms of education, but I definitely think a theology school's education is much different.

All I know is that AST is included, with all "publicly funded post-secondary institutions in the Maritimes" (so is STU), as per the Maritime Provinces Higher Education Commission's website (http://www.mphec.ca/english/about.html#stake). You'll note that several universities in the Maritimes are not members (ie. ABU & St. Stephen's in NB), since they must be publicly funded and accountable, therefore having a private/public distinction in the NB template is correct. PEI also has a second degree-granting institution in addition to UPEI - the private Maritime Christian College, although I don't think 2 schools is enough to warrant a template for that province. The B.C. template is correct Trinity Western etc. are private and not accountable to government.

At any rate, I'm still not clear on what is being proposed for the exact definition of private vs. public for Atlantic universities. The majority of what are regarded as public universities in the region were not founded by the state and most of their boards maintain at least a tentative link to their heritage through whatever church was involved in their founding. From reading AST's website and knowing several grads, AST is ecumenical and not identified with a particular denomination and it is publicly funded and describes itself as a public institution, despite having church affiliations (just like Acadia's theology school, McMaster's, UofT's, etc.).

I won't be an appologist for STU which obviously describes itself as a Catholic university with an emphasis on a Christian education and teaching environment, but I've heard the same from MSVU, Saint Mary's, St. F.X., etc. so it's difficult to hold it to a black & white standard - I've also heard Acadia still described as a Baptist university (no idea if they emphasize this in their propaganda though). These are all regarded as public institutions in this region since they are publicly funded and publicly accountable to their respective provincial governments, regardless to what extent their founding churches are involved. Anyway, it's an interesting debate - I'll do some more digging or ask friends at other universities in the Atlantic region what they know about the subject. Cheers,Plasma east 14:54, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

If the institution is part of a larger public University (ie Acadia U or Dalhousie U) then the main article is in the template. If like AST it isn't part of a larger institution, then it is probably private. If it provides religious education, no matter the denomination, it's private. It can be Christian, Jewish, Pagan, it doesn't matter, it's private, even if they receive public funds. --Spinboy 19:25, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Let me make it simpler: If Maclean's Magazine ranks it, it's public. Last I checked, Maclean's didn't rank private Universities in Canada. --Spinboy 19:28, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

While I would still argue about AST being considered "private", I have no problem with this institution being included with other seminaries. But if you're using Macleans for your criteria, you're ignoring several Quebec universities, Athabaska U., etc. You'll also notice St. Thomas University is #10 this year under the "Primarily undergraduate" category and would need to be reinstated to the NB_Uni template under "public". BTW, St. Thomas is not a seminary - it has no grad programs (seminaries usually offer MDiv, MTheo, PhD degrees).

Also the only 2 private universities in the Maritimes, St. Stephen's and Atlantic Baptist, had their start as private bible colleges and have been redesignated as private universities and would be considered in a similar class to Trinity Western, etc. They are not seminaries, nor were they ever classed as seminaries, as they do not offer the above degrees for training ordained clergy. The accreditation body for the Maritimes, the Maritime Provinces Higher Education Commission, only accredits public universities. Plasma east 22:54, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)