User talk:NoelWalley

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).

Welcome!

Hello NoelWalley, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Dunc|☺ 21:00, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi Hi, I see you are interested in Great Orme and railways. Nice to see someone new. John

Contents

[edit] L Class?

L Class
Enlarge
L Class

Noel,

Know anything about the L class? I know about the four built 1923 by the LMS (like No. 2 here). Originally numbered 2 taken into LMS stock July 1923, LMS 2271, withdrawn 1937, subsequently sold to Manchester Collieries, presumably then to the NCB and then preservation. But those built prior to 1923 by the NSR are a bit of a mystery. Dunc|☺ 08:07, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Reverting

Yeah, if an anon's messed something up just revert it. You can always rewrite it and it looks like it might have been pinched from somewhere. Dunc|☺ 20:38, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Chester and Holyhead Railway

Greetings to you, too. Not sure I get the point of your comment, though. I just changed [[Romans]] to Ancient Rome, to make it clear that you were talking about the folks who were hanging about two thousand years ago and not the modern city of Rome. Is this a problem? --Russ Blau (talk) 20:28, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Cymraeg

Dim problem Noel! I added the link assuming the interwiki page existed, but obviously not. Cheers for letter me know doktorb | words 10:12, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Porthmadog

I do apologize for that; I've reverted myself so the incorrect pronuncation is no longer there. I pulled the trigger a bit too fast since the edit came from an IP with a long history of vandalism; so I naively assumed it was more vandalism. I'll know better to check the talk pages first now... Again, my mistake, and I am sorry for it.Gershwinrb 05:37, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks much for your reply! Glad that could all be sorted out. Gershwinrb 06:41, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Boston Lodge

It was an honest mistake. That specific edit summary was meant for this edit but it seems that I continued to CTRL-V that summary into a few unrelated articles.

—-- That Guy, From That Show! (esperanza) 2006-04-23 16:01

[edit] Gosh, Carstairs!

Carstairs got its colour change heading north from Euston across the border. You might have better luck getting someone to pay attention if you leave a message at Glasgow Central or Edinburgh Waverley. I doubt that too many people have a a watch on Carstairs. --Concrete Cowboy 19:33, 28 April 2006 (UTC).

No worries. It seems pretty obvious that the two Carstairs articles should be merged - it doesn't need a big discussion! Be bold, just do it. I will! --Concrete Cowboy 20:15, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Carstairs Junction

Interesting that you should say that. I'm not confident that I'm right but the original wasn't right either. After I made the first correction (to put Carstairs correctly on the Glasgow branch), I decided that maybe that was a mistake, that I had sacrificed clarity for accuracy. The line does split at Carstairs Junction, not at Carstairs and the route to Edinburgh is just as much WCML as the route to Glasgow (or as little, if you use the route numbers). So that is why I felt that Carstairs Junction needed special mention. Carstairs itself really is a very minor stop and would be an "italics" station if it were on the way into London. It certainly doesn't belong on the {{WCML}} template of major stations.
If you feel strongly about it, change it back. --Concrete Cowboy 23:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wembley Central

Noel, if you look at the Network Rail definition of routes (see Network Rail's strategic plan) and route map, you will see that Wembley is certainly in the WCML management domain, but it is very clearly not on the main line. From Watford into Euston, there is a parallel line for local stations - it shares the same cuttings, embankments and tunnels, but it is not the same line. The Watford Junction to Clapham Junction via Olympia leaves WCML management and goes into Chiltern management just after Wembley Central. So I think we have to have a separate Watford Junction to Euston local line article and take Wembley C off the main WCML article and put it there. Problem is, it seems to be almost the same as the Watford DC Line, but Central Trains don't use the middle rail for power. Is it multimode? --Concrete Cowboy 20:21, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I know it doesn't go off into the hills. But in Network Rail's areas of control, the Olympia line is in the Chiltern Network. Look at the link above, route 2. But mainly look at route 18 WCML, which shows that Wembley C is not on the main line. --Concrete Cowboy 17:14, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
I understand your point - the NR document describes the Euston to MKC stretch as the busiest in the country. The problem about WC is this: if you put it in, how do you justify leaving out all the others - for example Willesden Junction is far more important because of the North London Line crossing at high level and the Olympia line pulling away. I accept that the WCML goes through WC, but only because it has to. The aerial pic on google maps (here) is very detailed but if you follow the line down to Stonebridge Park railway station (here), you'll see that the line is distinct. (Though to be fair I don't remember the Olympia line going that way). So I'm wordering if the solution is to treat it like the Manchester loop - put it on the WCML page but not on the main track. Otherwise you have to justify including WC and excluding all the others, especially W'den J. --Concrete Cowboy 19:27, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
I meant like a loop, parallel with the main track but not on it.
By the way, I've personally taken a Silverlink County train as far as Harrow & Wealdstone and changed to a Silverlink Metro train to Willesden Junction, then changed again to high level to go round to Highbury and Islinton. But nowadays it's easier to go into Euston and take the tube back to the Angel. Ok, it doesn't really matter that much to me so have it your way. But I still don't see how you can include WC and exclude all the others. I'll leave it to somebody else to argue the toss. --Concrete Cowboy 20:08, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Route 18

Noel, if you feel like writing it, the Route 18 table could do with an explanation of what it is and where it comes from, citing the source. I wonder if shouldn't also come out a level (to be section 3 rather than section 2.2)

Maybe there is a case for a whole article on the Network Rail routes? Their use of the word "route" is strange - it is really an "area managed". --Concrete Cowboy 19:54, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

That's exactly what I thought! --Concrete Cowboy 12:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stoke-on-Trent

Thanks for seeing the peer review! If you can update it so it gets to featured article status, that would be great! --Sunfazer | Talk 13:26, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ffestiniog Railway

Hi Noel, just wanted to say "thanks" for the good work you're doing keeping the Ffestiniog Railway article in order. It looks like you know a great deal about the line - are you a volunteer? I'm a member of the society but sadly live too far away to be actively involved. Anyway, thanks again for your work. All the best, Gwernol 15:04, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Noel, I see that you have just been awarded a star for your contributions to the FR page. I dropped in to say much the same thing! Your (time consuming) input has been superb! It makes a good article even better! By the way, a thought crossed my mind - whilst the FR is by no means unique in its use of (and dependency on) volunteers (& a couple of projects on the page mention them), is it worth mentioning the general contribution of volunteers somewhere? Hogyn Lleol 19:55, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re Stoke - Derby

Only noticed the pages at http://www.dudleymall.co.uk/loclrail/loclrail.htm and more specifically http://www.dudleymall.co.uk/loclrail/stokederby.htm where it is expressed so - when i have time I'll redo my edits (and i don't object to you or anyone else doing so). Obviously with the detail on the website a lot of work could be done on the various midlands rail services, but despite my 3 years at uni up here in the north I'm no expert Pickle 21:53, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your message on my talk page. I got involved in this with the edit to Derby Station and I'm not sure how Nottingham and Skegness became involved, even though there may be a modern service. I was really only pointing out the difficulty if one were later to write histories of the various bits, as has been done with the Crewe to Derby Line Having seen your note on Pickles page, trains from Crewe don't stop at Peartree either. I realise now, however, that you're referring to the infobox at the bottom of Derby station, however. Chevin 11:44, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
"one train daily in each direction between Derby and Crewe that calls at Peartree. . . . .no calls at Peartree on the so called Cardiff to Nottingham Line" Interesting. It used to be the other way around :-) Chevin 18:06, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
"Balfour Beatie in their patent concrete slab track" I wonder what their idea is! BR were messing about with it in the sixties. You can still see a length betwen Duffield and Derby. The first attempt was a failure. As someone said "Here we have a mile of whatever shall we do with this?" It is used nowadays in tunnels where access is restricted. Otherwise it is more expensive and noisy than ballast and not so easy to repair when it does fail. Chevin 04:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
See response on Chevin, mine and the line's talk pages (i cna't keep ctrl+c and crtl+v all day LOL)

[edit] Re: Stoke-on-Trent Old Peer Review

The peer review at Wikipedia:Peer review/Stoke-on-Trent was not archived because it was old (whatever old means) but because there had been no new comments within the peer review for two weeks. This is the second criteria for archiving listed in the Peer review removal policy and the criteria is applied fairly evenly to all peer review requests. You are welcome to resubmit the article using the instructions in the header of Wikipedia:Peer review. It should be noted that PR has had a poor record of attracting new editors willing to perform significant additions to a listed article. --Allen3 talk 21:27, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] WikiProject Piers

Hello, NoelWalley I noticed your interest in piers by your contributions to the Llandudno Pier article. You are cordially invited to join WikiProject Piers, which is an attempt to better organize and unify articles relating to piers. If you would like to participate you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. --Paul E. Ester 06:46, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Bangor, Wales Piers

Try http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bangor%2C_Wales&action=purge it refreshes the page. I see all the pics. Write if that doesn't help. feydey 20:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

That is one weird problem, You might wanna present this to Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance) or Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) as there are more people who might assist on this. Best, feydey 20:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Minton

I suggest merging Minton into Thomas Minton. There are several Mintons around. I do not think that one of them should hog the bare surname. Maybe there is a case for a 'Minton family' (or similar) article. Maias 11:53, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

Hi Noel, glad you liked the barnstar; you deserve it for the wonderful work you've done to the Ffestiniog Railway article. Very happy to hear about your friends Elwyn and Dilys. 60 years together is indeed exceptionally nice. My wife and I celebrated our 10 year anniversary a little earlier this year. I can't wait for the next 50 years. All my best, Gwernol 21:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ffestiniog Railway Category

Hi, I see you have created Category:Ffestiniog Railway, however I am not convinced is it appropriate to include RhE in this. Surely there should be a separate Welsh Highland Railway category to cover the Porthmadog to Caernarfon activities (which then could also include the Gelert's Farm activities, and the constituent companies of the trackbed - PBSSR, Creosor Tramway, and the old WHR. It was an attempt to bring all the stations together that resulted in the Category:Heritage railway stations in Gwynedd. I know from personal experience on the ground it know this can get very messy. Pencefn 11:22, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually I created the category, not Noel. I have no problem with their being a separate Category:Welsh Highland Railway. However the Welsh Highland Railway article should be in both categories (as, for example, should Porthmadog) since the FfR plays a significant role in WHR history (and vice versa). Gwernol 12:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Good idea to create Category:Welsh Highland Railway. I think it would be more appropriate that Category:Heritage railway stations in Gwynedd. Yes there is an overlap due to the roles each played in their development. This would also allow issues like the Blaen Quarries to be tagged to the FR, whilst lines like the Nantlle Tramway could possible be tagged to the Welsh Highland Railway, along with Creosor, etc. An interesting selection would be where the line to the Prince of Wales Quarry above Penmorfa would go. -- Pencefn 12:33, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I totally agree, though we should beware of the subtelties. Croesor is an interesting case since at least the Rhosydd quarry did indeed ship slates out via the Ffestiniog in its early days [1] so an article on the quarry ought to be in both categories! The history of the two companies is inextricably linked right back to the earliest days. Gwernol 12:39, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I do appreciate and understand these various views. However, the fact is that the WHR, its track and stock and all its stations are owned by the Ffestiniog Railway Company and are managed by the FR. No train moves on the operational Welsh Highland Railway without explicit permission from the duty train controller at Porthmadog Harbour station who also controls all train movements on the FR. Many of the train operating volunteers working on the Ffestiniog Railway also work on the Welsh Highland Railway (having correctly learnt both routes) and in many cases allow the management to decide, on a day to day basis, which railway they will work on. At the time the WHR was formed in 1921, it and its constituent companies together with the FR were under a common majority ownership and that continued until after the WHR was closed in 1937. When the original WHR was opened in 1923, the first through trains from each end were hauled by FR locomotives.
The two railways have always been linked by ownership and management. There is a precedent for linking the two together symbolically. It is the existing coat of arms comprising a red dragon on a green and white ground with by a garter bearing the wording "Ffestiniog & Welsh Highland." and surmounted by the Prince of Wales feathers. I propose a single category: Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland. Regards NoelWalley 13:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Here's why I like the idea of two categories, for historical and organizational reasons.
While its true that the FfR and WHR are closely tied, its also true that the WHR was once a separate entity and even today the WHR(P) continues to exist as a separate but co-operating group to the FfR. Wikipedia needs to cover history as well as the present. The WHR category would be a good umbrella to cover earlier railway activities like the NWNGR, PB&SSR, Croesor Tramway and even the Gorseddau Tramway(s). These smaller operations probably don't need their own categories and wouldn't fit within the scope of the FfR but do make sense to under the WHR. Categories do not need to be strictly separate, so articles can exist within multiple categories. As I mentioned, Porthmadog would be under both categories, as would both railway articles. Best, Gwernol 13:45, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
I must now declare an interest. I am one of those volunteers that works on both lines (I am a Guard and a Controller). I can however indicate a preference, and the FR Management has stated that no-one will be forced to work on one line or the other when they do not want to. There is then the case of ensuring that those who volunteer at Gelert's Farm do not feel alienated. In fact once the Trawth Mawr extension of WHR(P) is open, the FR controller will have to allow access onto the line at the beginning of the day. There are however a sizeable minority on both lines who have no interest in the other and feel that the distinct identities should be retained.
Enough of the politics, given that the FR was built primarily as a slate railway, and the WHR as a tourist/general freight line (the only sizable slate traffic appears to have been from Glan-y-afon and Creosor) I believe that two separate categories are appropriate to recoginse the two different heritages - yes I know the FR Heritage Group is very incestious in the this respect(I contribute to that).
Rhosydd is an interesting case - I was walking up there last Monday whilst seeking out the link between Cwmorthim and Creosor (of which more another time).
In conclusion, I think two categories - one for Welsh Highland and the other for Ffestiniog - are in order, and the other category Category:Heritage railway stations in Gwynedd I created a few days ago should be removed.
-- Pencefn 14:14, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

This is a broader discussion that we can't conclude between just the three of us. I propose copying this to the Welsh Highland Railway talk page so we can hopefully reach consensus there. Any objections? Gwernol 14:26, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed -- Pencefn 14:32, 1 September 2006 (UTC) Fine by me --NoelWalley 16:47, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Done, moved to Talk:Welsh Highland Railway with a note on Talk:Ffestiniog Railway too. Thanks, Gwernol 16:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ffestiniog Railway

Hi Noel!

I'm currently working on a german language article about the FR. (de:Benutzer:Herbert Ortner/Baustelle) I recently uploaded some pictures to Commons, maybe there's something of interest for you: commons:Category:Ffestiniog_Railway

best regards from Austria (some nice narrow gauge railways there!) --Herbert Ortner 13:10, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rhiw Goch, Cae Ednyfed and other stables, Control, et al

Hi Noel,

[edit] Rhiw Goch

Are you aware of the current project to re-build Rhiw Goch. When I was working the box in August, the extensions to the slab had been poured and the junction boxes on the walls were being relocated. The box is now closed for the Winter to allow the old structure to be removed and new structure erected. It will even have a toilet plumbed into the septic tank! However as a FRHG member you will know an awful lot more than I do.

[edit] Cae Edynfed

As personal friends of the current occupants of one of the Cae Ednyfed cottages (and having stayed there from time to time) the history has interested me. For example, No. 3 was extended (doubling its size) in 1988. Some of the pictures I took during that May 1988 Gala has the building work in progress. When the owner of No. 2 died several years ago, the onwer of No. 1 bought No. 2 and combined the two cottages. One of the upstairs bedrooms in No. 3 was the hay loft to the stables.

[edit] Control

An interesting thought. The basic detail goes back to an article in FRM many years ago when Tery Turner was the Operating Officer and the counter top and inclined desk was installed. It was still in situ when I trained, however the Control Office has gone through many mutations subsequently to reach its current layout. Not forgetting that it now is responsible for twice the length of line is had ten years ago.

[edit] ....et al

The location of my username is probably no mystery to you :-)

-- Pencefn 14:13, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Welsh Highland Railway

Hi Noel

Sorry I wrote the new infobox with a few incorrect facts, I'm probably not the best person to be writing it however I thought there should be an infobox on that page as the Welsh Highland is such an important project, and have filled it in as best I can. Please feel free to correct any anomalies.

James

[edit] Image:P1042428.JPG listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:P1042428.JPG, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in its not being deleted. Thank you. —Nv8200p talk 03:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Noel - I cannot see any reason why this has been listed for deletion. -- Stewart 06:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Its been listed because its an "orphan" i.e. it isn't used on any articles in Wikipedia. Generally images that have been uploaded for more than a few weeks without being used in articles are listed for deletion to prevent Wikipedia being used as a free picture hosting system. Best, Gwernol 06:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I have now sen what has happened. the Colwyn Bay railway station article is using an editted verion of this picture Image:ColwynBayStation1-P1042428.JPG. -- Stewart 16:54, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Garratt

Hi Noel, thanks for your edits to Garratt, you have definately improved the article. Do you have a reference for the visit by BP to the Ffestiniog Railway? I hadn't heard of that before. Cheers --Michael Johnson 12:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that. When you get time, it would be great if you could add them to the article. I notice you have also been doing some good work on Herbert William Garratt. I have only one question, and that relates to his time (or lack of it) in Australia. I have placed a note on the talk page, and am interested in your comments. --Michael Johnson 23:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../n/o/e/User_talk%7ENoelWalley_7681.html"