Wikipedia talk:No disclaimer templates

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Comment There is a Request for Comment currently going on at Wikipedia:Spoiler warning/RfC about spoiler tags and if they should be used or not on Wikipedia. Please see there for the on-going debate about these issues.

Contents

[edit] The obligatory "what do you think about this proposal" poll

(the exception is not included in this poll)

[edit] Disclaimer templates should not be used

  1. --cesarb 23:57, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
  2. Frazzydee|✍: I'm a subscriber to a completely opt-in system that wouldn't affect other users. I think that disclaimer templates are redundant and often unnecessary (like the goatse warning). -Frazzydee|✍ 02:03, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
  3. IMHO disclaimer templates used on any selection of articles are inescapably POV as well as redundant with the general disclaimer. Thryduulf 13:13, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
  4. Such templates are inherently POV because different areas of the world have different standards. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 06:21, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
  5. Excellent idea. I think we should flag this as semi-policy at least, given the amount of times this appears on TFD. Radiant_* 11:13, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
  6. They seem pretty redundant to me. Moomintrollmania 09:40, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
  7. Redundant IMHO. This could be moved to Wikipedia:No disclaimers once it becomes policy. Zocky 17:01, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
  8. Angela. 13:34, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
  9. as per above. DES (talk) 17:56, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
  10. --tasc 11:16, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
  11. --Jannex 08:41, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  12. Packet of Peanuts, Use: Open bag, eat nuts. WARNING: May contain peanuts. -- Sfnhltb 07:04, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disclaimer templates can be used

  1. Look, I'm against censorship. But I don't see the harm in flagging pages containing content such as nudity or graphic violence so that users who prefer not to view such content can avoid doing so. That's not censoring users, it's empowering them. Furthermore, some users may be surfing or editing Wikipedia in contexts such as workplaces where such content could cause difficulties for them. Firebug 05:22, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
    See Wikipedia:Content labeling proposal for a whole range of counter-arguments to this. Thryduulf 13:14, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Neutral

[edit] Other

  1. Point #4 on the main page suggests that we should get a lawyer's opinion on this. --Carnildo 00:11, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Comments

This seems to be pretty uncontroversial. If substantial opposition is demonstrated, it should be put on a formal poll, otherwise this should be enough. Zocky 17:01, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps someone could tell me what action this proposal intends to take. Are such templates CSD's? Are we going to ban or block someone for creating them? I'm being cynical, but there is no action statement anywhere on this page. The thought doesn't seem fully-formed. -- Netoholic @ 17:15, 2005 May 18 (UTC)

This looks like a write up of a long-standing wikipedia content convention which in short terms states "Do not use disclaimers". If that's covered elsewhere, this can go, otherwise we may as well make it a guideline or policy, since attempts to introduce them have met relatively little support over the years. Zocky 13:01, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Exactly. --cesarb 23:56, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Renaming

What do you think about renaming this from Wikipedia:Disclaimer templates to Wikipedia:Disclaimer messages or something like that? While disclaimer templates seem to have stopped showing up, people are still adding redundant disclaimers to articles. --cesarb 02:30, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I like the current version with "no" in the title, but moving to no disclaimer messages instead of templates would be fine. Angela.
I like Zocky's Wikipedia:No disclaimers which could be pointed to whether the disclaimer in question were a template or a message. Double duty with one time work. I see no reason to add "templates" or "messages" Redirects are cheap, if indicated. KillerChihuahua 13:57, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
This seems most reasonable to me, falling under the principle of least astonishment in article naming. -- nae'blis (talk) 17:46, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
No, the title "No disclaimers" by itself negates the "Disclaimers" at the bottom of the page! --Blainster 07:34, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal that some disclaimer messages should be kept

I recently composed a how-to on piloting the Hawker-Siddeley Harrier and copied the disclaimer from the Helicopter Pilotage article warning that the information given is no substitute for proper training. An issue was raised with this by User:Clawed who pointed me to this project page. I have asked a third party with experience of pilotage for his opinion. I propose that disclaimers that discourage people from acting on 'how to' articles/sections provided only for information purposes that could be dangerous should be considered. More generally, perhaps a standard set of disclaimer templates that are official policy could be created.--ChrisJMoor 03:22, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Template:HurricaneWarning seems a clear cut counter example here. Fast moving news event and if people aren't warned, bad things can happen. Yes, standard disclaimer applies but I think an exception is warranted. ++Lar: t/c 11:02, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A rationale for disclaimers in articles

Most of the debate's been from the point of view of "us us us". Wikipedia has disclaimers elsewhere... wikipedia should or shouldnt X...

But surely the major use of a disclaimer is to inform. A person who looks up a legal page needs to know, its not definitive, and *thats* what a disclaimer on the page is for. Call it "Standard information for legal pages" or whatever... the main thing is, that a disclaimer has a 2nd target audience -- those who look up one article for information, and one page only. For such people, the information in that disclaimer is essential background info they need on interoppreting that page.

Maybe it should be less dramatic: "This page contains specific information of a legal, medical or XYZ nature. Before relying on it please read the appropriate disclaimers HERE"

FT2 (Talk) 01:51, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Exceptions

If this is a wikipedia guideline, what are good exceptions? One of the exceptions presently in place seems to be the Pornography portal's Not Safe For Work notice: Template:NSFWArticle. Thoughts? Vectro 17:09, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Danger

Hi, I created a danger template for articles such as Ghost riding-I think they are still okay concerning the no disclaimer rule. I created the template to be posted on articles where the dangers associated with the subject matter might not be obvious. In other words, the template is to advise those who are not aware, that the subject matter of the article might cause them injury. IMHO this template falls under the same exception rule as the spoiler warning which is meant to prevent the user from "ruining things [for him or herself]" by reading on. The same applied to articles such as Ghost riding-the template warns the user that if uses the article as a set of intrsuction he might "ruin things" for hom or herself. Regards, Signaturebrendel 22:02, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe this is such a good idea. We're likely to end up with tags on things like anal sex and Scientology. -- nae'blis 22:24, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Wrong. Reading the article isn't ghost riding. Ghost riding is getting out of your car while it's running. You can safely read about ghost riding and choose whether or not to try it after reading about it. But a reader can not decide to not read a spoiler after reading it. If there really was a joke that killed people who read it, then this template might be appropriate. (See fatal hilarity) I suggest you include more information about those who have died from ghost riding rather than having a danger template. --GunnarRene 23:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Here's a template that doesn't exist, but would be allowed with the reasoning of the current exception. --GunnarRene 00:42, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Fatal hilarity warning: At least one person has laughed to death upon reading the following

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:Danger

Template:Danger has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. GunnarRene 23:29, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] legally frivolous

There's a whole huge debate going on about {{legally frivolous}}, which is currently on its 2nd TfD nomination, and that looks like it's going to stall into no concensus just like the first one. I stumbled across this while browsing TfDs, and got sucked into the debate for a little while. I honestly don't care about the template, except insofar as it seems like a blatant violation of this guideline, which I do care about. The "keep" arguments seem to boil down to 1) it's really important on the (three) articles where it's used, and 2) it's not a disclaimer, it's a "fact". The first strikes me as so completely irrelevant that I haven't even bothered to look at the articles in question. The second argument, though, really scares me. It seems like it could completely undermine this whole policy, if warning templates are reworded to present "facts" (it's a fact that many people are offended by nudity, various religious beliefs, etc., etc.). I'm not canvassing for votes (the TfD is already so lengthy and confused that I can't imagine any conclusion other than "no concensus"). I'm looking for clarification. If this template really is acceptable, how can we clarify this policy to distinguish why it's acceptable when other it's-a-fact templates wouldn't be? And if the template isn't acceptable, how can we make this clear to its adamant supporters? I'm really befuddled, and deeply sorry I stumbled across this mess, but very worried about the precedent that might be being set. Xtifr tälk 11:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

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