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[edit] Documentation

[edit] Purpose

{{news reference}} (now deprecated in favour of {{Cite news}}) provided a way to structure references to news articles as sources for Wikipedia articles.

[edit] Usage

Please use {{Cite news}} in place of this template. See the Cite news talk page for instructions how. This template is deprecated (for details, see the {{tl|cite news}} section below).

{{news reference
| firstname = 
|  lastname = 
|    author = 
|       url = 
|     title = 
|       org = 
|     pages = 
|      page = 
|      date = 
|   urldate = 
}}

• title is required, rest is optional. pages overrides page
• Specify firstname and lastname or author if applicable
• By default, no wikilink is provided for the author's name. One can be specified by writing author=[[John Doe|Doe, John]] instead of lastname=Doe firstname=John
• By default, no wikilink is provided for the organization. One can be specified by writing org=[[Organization]] instead of org=Organization

[edit] Example

{{news reference
| firstname=John
| lastname=Doe
| url=http://www.url.com/
| title=News
| org=News corp.
| pages= 37–39
| date=[[2005-11-21]]
| urldate=2005-12-11
}}

{{news reference
| author=Staff writer
| url=http://www.url.com/
| title=News
| org=News corp.
| pages= 37–39
| date=[[2005-11-21]]
| urldate=2005-12-11
}}

{{news reference
| author=[[John Doe|Doe, John]]
| url=http://www.url.com/
| title=News
| org=[[News Corporation|News corp.]]
| date=[[2005-11-21]]
| urldate=2005-12-11
}}

{{news reference
| url=http://www.url.com/
| title=News
| org=News corp.
| date=[[2005-11-21]]
| urldate=2005-12-11
}}

{{news reference
| firstname=John
| lastname=Doe
| title=FooBar
| page=1
}}

{{news reference
| title=FooBar
| page=1
}}

[edit] See also

• Template:cite web
• Template:cite book
• Template:cite journal

[edit] History

Created

_→AzaToth 21:26, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

[edit] Conversion from {{Web reference}}

• Presumably a goodly number of uses of {{Web reference}} should now be converted to use this?

Oh boy! —Phil | Talk 16:33, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

• Hehe :), otherwise we could create a template "reference" containing for example:

{{if
  |1={{booleq|{{{type}}}|web}}
  |2=web reference code
}}{if
  |1={{booleq|{{{type}}}|book}}
  |2=book reference code
}}
...

This template was made for instead of the citenews templates --AzaToth ^talk 16:40, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Impersonal authorship required for Press Releases

We need to add the capability of an impersonal "author" for Press Releases. I'm just adding a couple by the SciFi Channel to The Dresden Files, and using {{Web reference}} because I can't immediately think how to code the "author" for this template. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 09:36, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

• What do you mean by impersonal "author" and how should it look like? _→AzaToth 11:39, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Don't link the journol's name

I don't think this should link the journalist's name. I can't give you a stat on it, but I doubt many journos would have a page here. And I don't really think they need one, just because we cite one of their articles. Keeping in mind WP:LIVING and all. pfctdayelise 14:04, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Suggested modification to address this:
[code snipped for readability; see [1] for code]

This adds the parameter authorlink:

{{news reference
  | firstname=
  | lastname=
  | author=
  | authorlink=
  | url=
  | title=
  | org=
  | pages=
  | page=
  | date=
  | urldate=
}}

If the authorlink parameter is blank, there's no wikilink to the name. If the authorlink parameter has a value, the template outputs a piped link to the wikipedia article specified by authorlink: [[authorlink|lastname, firstname]] or [[authorlink|author]].--Muchness 17:44, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Um... sure. I don't know much about this "esoteric" syntax so I can't comment on the code. But it's kind of annoying if the editor now has to check if the author has an article on WP or not. Are we really losing that much if we just leave it off altogether? pfctdayelise 09:01, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

We'd be removing some functionality, so we should try and get some consensus before leaving off the links. Under the suggested change, the editor doesn't have to check, since the authorlink parameter is optional. In my opinion, it's an improvement over always creating a wikilink or removing the ability to link. --Muchness 16:34, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Incidentally, I notice the example using 'author' instead of 'firstname' and 'lastname' parameters [cultural bias, if I ever saw it - how about Chinese names?] doesn't have a link. Is this always true? To avoid the redlinks, should I just use the author parameter instead? pfctdayelise 09:07, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the author parameter doesn't have a link unless you manually add one: author=Name adds a name with no link; author=[[Name]] adds a name with a wikilink. --Muchness 16:34, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't know why the author's name in the original had a wikilink. As few of the huge number of authors are likely to have WP entries, it makes sense to not wikilink them by default. Actually, I consider the identification of the author in the template to be the important task; the name information can then be easily manipulated in the future. (SEWilco 05:00, 4 January 2006 (UTC))

What solution do you favor? Removing default wikilinks and adding the optional authorlink parameter, or just removing all author wikilinks and letting the editor add a wikilink via the author parameter? --Muchness 05:49, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I vote for the latter. This distinction just needs to be explained further up this page. pfctdayelise 10:26, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Ok, removed. --Muchness 21:14, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Change org link?

How can I change the org wikilink when the name of the publication goes to a different article on Wikipedia? I want to link a publication called "Irish Music" but that's already the title of a different Wikipedia article. I tried pipe in the name, but that doesn't work correctly. I also tried an explicit link, but that doesn't work right, either. --Craig Stuntz 17:41, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

It appears that there's no article on that publication on Wikipedia. I've created a stub for it here; feel free to move it to a different title if I've gotten the name wrong. (Should it be Irish Music Magazine?) The ref should work now. --Muchness 19:27, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

You just changed the redirect for "Irish Music!" I don't think that's such a good idea! The general subject of Irish music is something which will be much more commonly referred to under the heading of "Irish music" than that particular magazine.

Perhaps you're right; I didn't think changing the redirect was too much of a problem because with case sensitive searches "Irish Music" would be a comparatively rare reference. By all means, revert it if you feel this was a mistake. --Muchness 20:26, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

It probably is, but I elected to just go to all four articles which linked that and disambiguate them instead. --Craig Stuntz 20:59, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

What I was wondering was if there was a way to change the wikilink text. For example, in normal text (as opposed to a template) I could write: [[Irish Music (magazine)|Irish Music]]. But I can't figure out how to do it with the template. Oh, and no, I think "Irish Music" is the correct title; the site has it both ways but the magazine itself has "Irish Music" (sans "Magazine" on the masthead). --Craig Stuntz 19:50, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately you can't do it without changing the template code. The alternative would be to link to the disambiguated title in the reference, i.e., org=Irish Music (magazine). --Muchness 20:26, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

If the template code could be changed to just accept an explicit link if that was specified for org that would be a good thing IMO. --Craig Stuntz 20:59, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and done. --Muchness 21:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

So now are you going to go around all those articles and re-link all those organisations which that change unlinked? —Phil | Talk 16:54, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

SEWilco made the following observation in the discussion about author links, and I believe that the same logic applies to organizations:

I don't know why the author's name in the original had a wikilink. As few of the huge number of authors are likely to have WP entries, it makes sense to not wikilink them by default. Actually, I consider the identification of the author in the template to be the important task.

--Muchness 17:08, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

My feeling in the matter is that we are supposedly trusting these organisations to give us reliable information: how are we supposed to do that if we have to jump through extra hopos just to find out who they are? We should be creating links for all sources of information: if there are sufficient red-links to show up on Special:Wantedpages then the article really ought to be created: if we're depending on someone to give us straight information, we should have an article on them to show why they are trustworthy. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 08:04, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

That's a fair point, if an org is reliable it's unlikely to be redlinked. But it doesn't address the practical considerations of disambiguating titles and including piped links – issues that will possibly become more of a problem as WP continues to grow. I'm happy to relink existing templates if optional wikilinking is the consensus preference. But there's clearly no consensus for this change at the moment, so if you feel strongly about this feel free to revert it. --Muchness 11:15, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Minor nitpick

The name of organisations is italicised, yet the following comma is not (typographically incorrect behaviour). I came here to fix that but am not familiar with the new selective parsing if‐then‐else system it's using and how I would go about including the comma. It should be included in the same run (i.e. producing <i><a>CNN</a>,</i> and not <i><a>CNN</a></i><i>,</i>) so that the renderer can do correct kerning. — Nicholas 04:41, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Date link?

Why is the {{{date}}} parameter not wikilinked? Doing so would format it, just like the {{{urldate}}} is formatted. — jdorje (talk) 02:10, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I wondered the same thing, and since nobody answered here in 2 weeks I was about to change it. Then it occurred to me that because it has not been linked, many people will have used this template with a date syntax that requires two wikilinks, not one like the ISO date format. Therefore I leave it to someone who understands the detail to either fix or give an authoritative response here. --Scott Davis ^Talk 11:33, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

This would be because it is not always possible to know the precise date when something was published: it might be sometime within a given month with no day listed, or even just a year, and auto-linking partial dates would be disastrous. You should always know when you checked the URL, however, or else your clock is broken . HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 09:31, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] multiple authors?

Is there any way to use this template to cite a newspaper article written by multiple authors? Or a good work-around? --W.marsh 04:26, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

You can use the author parameter to cite multiple names:

• author=Name one, Name two, and Name three

Note that you can add wikilinks as needed to the author parameter's text. --Muchness 04:33, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] {{cite news}}

Any reason not to move this to {{cite news}} to consistencyize the style in other citings? ... aa:talk 01:41, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Please do it. --Adrian Buehlmann 08:16, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I presumed it was just "going to happen", all in due time, since the others are being changed. Support. --Scott Davis ^Talk 10:06, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Could we change some param names as well when moving? I would propose to map as follows:

old names	new names
{{news reference | firstname= | lastname= | author= | url= | title= | org= | pages= | page= | date= | urldate= }}	{{cite news | first= | last= | author= | url= | title= | org= | pages= | page= | date= | accessdate= }}

This would then correspond with the param names of {{cite book}}. --Adrian Buehlmann 10:40, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the param names are pissing me off. However, I'm already using the "old" params. If you'd like to change them, that's a great idea, except how do we ensure the currently-using articles don't break? ... aa:talk 18:30, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

It's moved. ... aa:talk 18:42, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Moved back. This is not what was intended. We should not have the same template under a new name if we want to change params. Look what we have done on {{book reference}} → {{cite book}}. We need both the old and the new template at the same time in order to be able to change parameters names. There was obviously a misunderstanding for which I apologize. I shouldn't have been using the term move. It is rather a migration. --Adrian Buehlmann 18:54, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Oops. Apologies. ... aa:talk 19:25, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I have changed the parameter mapping on {{cite news}} to do org → publisher (idea by Phil Boswell). This in order to conform with the param names in {{cite book}} and {{cite web}}. Phil also aked me to add a work parameter as in {{cite web}}. --Adrian Buehlmann 09:18, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm an editor who relies heavily on crib sheets to get my reference citations right. I especially rely on Wikipedia:Template messages/Sources of articles/Citation quick reference, which suggests {{news reference}} and not {{cite news}}. I'm going to change that documentation. I also rely on the doc for this template, i.e. this Talk page, which gives the instructions on how to use this template but doesn't say it's deprecated. I'm going to add a note to that effect. --Jdlh | Talk 06:41, 18 April 2006 (UTC)