Talk:New tribalists
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This reads really well now.
Maybe should make some mention of the idea of the "noble savage" which the new tribalists revived?
However, there's a sociological basis for these tribal models if you look at Daniel Quinn's work. I believe at one point the book "Ishmael" won some major contest or award for alternative social evolution models (alternatives to "eat the rich" that is). I can't find the reference - I'll look for it.
This article does not read well because it does not explain what "leavers" and "takers" are; it does not provide any context for these terms (e.g., who uses the terms and why, who does not use the terms and why).
By the way, although a clever and thoughtful writer, Quinn ignores most anthropology, sociology, geography, and human ecology of the past twenty-five years; it is not by any means authoritative or accurate SR
No one said Quinn was authoritative or accurate - this is just a description of what "new tribalists" are. As to "leavers" they are defined more or less as Quinn's followers, while "takers" are defined as those from "Mother culture" - Quinn's name for the nation-state society of capitalism and representative democracy and etc. I think this is quite clear in the entry.
It's a bit terse, though, and if you think it needs more space, give it more.
I think the terms "leaver" and "taker" are confined more or less to Quinn's followers - and that trying to ascribe them more broadly than that may not be accurate. But if you can find for example instances of Greens or Quakers or Sufis or indigenous peoples using them to self-describe, by all means, quote 'em.
I'd say that if you find more than a couple of these, make a new entry for "leavers" and describe their own idea of what "takers" are there... as I doubt anyone voluntarily describes themself as a "taker"
I've edited this heavily. Much of the information in it was not entirely accurate, and I have expanded each of the criticisms from a single phrase to a full sub-section exploring the nature of the criticism, and new tribalists' response to that criticism. I also worked on some information about the "Noble Savage" The usage of the terms "Taker," "Leaver" and "Mother Culture" were entirely wrong. These terms are, indeed, entirely confined to Quinn's "followers" (for lack of a better word), but then, so is the term "New tribalist," though I've never heard this usage outside of this article. Quinn's "followers" use the term, "New Tribal Revolution," or more commonly, the abbreviation, "NTR." In fact, most of Quinn's "followers" do refer to themselves as "Takers," not out of pride, but to acknowledge the stumbling blocks of their acculturation.
Ishmael won the Turner Tomorrow Fellowship in 1998, recieving the single largest cash prize ever awarded to a work of fiction. That's probably the award you're thinking of.
I also need to disagree with "SR" on Ishmael's accuracy; I've studied anthropology, sociology, geography and human ecology intensely for several years specifically to put these claims to the test, and while I've found several details that were off, the central tenets still seem to be sound. At worst, we can only say that Quinn's accuracy is ... contested.
I agree with Jason, I too have studied anthropology, sociology, geography and human ecology -mostly in regards to the ideas directly discussed in Quinns works- and have found his works to be, as Jason said, sound. I have not edited this page, but I feel strongly that someone needs to re-work this sentence "Quinn's willingness to accept wide-spread starvation..." Quinn has made it perfectly clear that he does not have a solution to the food race, and while people love to put words and ideas into his mouth, here is a link to a response he himself has to this accusation here: http://www.ishmael.com/Interaction/QandA/Detail.CFM?Record=23 and here: http://www.ishmael.com/Interaction/QandA/Detail.CFM?Record=449 Because this is such a common misconception among people who read ishmael, as a joke my friends and I once begged Quinn to write, "Let Them Starve" in a copy of The Story of B. Quinn refused to do this even as a joke. That's how serious he is about this issue.
Urban Scout
