Talk:New Wave music

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[edit] New Wave of British Invasion?

I remember being told at the time (circa 1982) the New Wave refered to the 'next wave of the British Invasion'. Of course many bands that came to be known as New Wave were American, and some were from other places. Anyone else heard of this explanation? user:ike9898

There are various explanations - but the term seems to have already existed around 1978/79. I don´t think your explanation is false but it is the same with every cultural trend - later on, scientists, priests, philosophers, today journalist try to explain it and nobody knows what really happened ;) Rabauz 09:40, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I've always defined new wave as having as having a modern type sound- the Cars, the Fixx, Joy division Devo ect. A lot of the bands listed on the page I don't consider new wave like INXS, Cindy Lauper among others. CLAT1@aol.com

I can not call a thirty year old music modern anymore. Even the term modern sounds ironically quaint. I would say Punk and New Wave made a break from rock's R&B, rural roots. The music evolved from London,New York and other urban areas. It is also a singles oriented music. EK June 25th 2005
The Problem in my view is that you have actually total different sounds - there is modern rock like The Police, REM on the one hand and there is synthpop on the other hand. I quite agree with your term "modern type sound" - the punks learned their instruments and developed an interest in a new aesthetical sound, away from conservative Rock´n Roll - punk music is actually a back to the roots movement. So one part like the rockbands mentioned above began making sophisticated rock, others like The Stranglers, OMD, Depeche Mode tried something different, leaving the Rock´n Roll tradition, sometimes more oriented to pre war music. Around 1986 New Wave as movement ended up in mainstream pop.Rabauz 09:40, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
By the way, I really debate the inclusion of a few bands as "New Wave", particularly R.E.M. and a number of post-punk bands (Joy Division, The Fall, etc. Many of these bands were either in reaction to or had nothing to do with New Wave.WesleyDodds 19:13, 1 October 2005 (UTC):: I understand where you are coming from but as it was actually happening it literally sounded and felt like a New Wave EK 2:17 11 October 2005
I know what you are talking about. How about creating a list of key artists that most would agree are very New Wave? We could also keep the full, more inclusive list, explaining that some of the artists are at the edge of category. Who are your candidates for the list (not necessarily your favorites, just the most typically New Wave)? Here's my (user:ike9898) first few picks...
  • Thomson Twins
  • Devo
  • Flock of Seagulls
  • Haircut 100
  • ....

[edit] Hall & Oates

Hall & Oates?!? Really? ike9898 15:30, May 19, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Mike Oldfield

Mike Oldfield? Really? In my opinion Oldfield tried to make "modern" music, and he still tries (Ibiza Trance). But he is not really a typical New Wave artist. By asking the oracle of google, I got two Interviews in german, in which he expresses his diregard to New Wave and also Punk. Maybe his attidute changed around 1983-84, but Oldfield ist acutally a progressive or artrock musician. Rabauz 13:32, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Removal

The sound of 'New Wave' is open to much interpretation. It is doubtful that a definitive New Wave band ever existed. Is it New Wave? Is it No Wave? New Romantic? Synth Pop? It appears to be more a sub-cultural movement stemming from the end of popular disco and DIY punk than a categorised music genre.

I removed this becaue the rest of the article already covers the most important part (i.e. that New Wave is vague) but in a more cohesive and informative manner. No Wave, New Romantic and synth pop should all be described and incorporated into the text. Tuf-Kat 22:27, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New Wave's 4th incarnation

The article is completely off base in saying New Wave ended in 1992. Since the late 90’s due to the dour nature of alternative rock and gansta rap and the dour post 9/11 era there has been a nostalgic look back at New Wave. The era with its poppy sound and funky hair and clothes look like innocent fun today. Go listen to internet radio,satellite radio or 80’s lunch hour and New Wave dominates despite the fact the heavy metal and rap were just as popular in the 1980’s. This nostalgia has led to the 4th incarnation of New Wave music. I agree basically with the article up to 1992. New Wave’s first incarnation 1976-1978 was as a marketing ploy for punk. People forget or are to young to remember how deep the resistance was to the music in the U.S. The Sid and Nancy fiasco turned off the public and maybe even more importantly a drunken Elvis Costello calling Ray Charles a “blind ignorant nigger“ during and argument with Bonnie Bramlett made the U.S. rock world very hostile to the music. The second incarnation (1978-1981?) and third incarnations (1981-1988?) are explained well enough above. I would add the influence of MTV for third incarnation. The 4th incarnation I would say began in 2001 with the so called “the bands” witch mined to varied degrees 2nd second incarnation New Wave and electro clash and underground dance music movement influenced by 1980’s techno pop. The last 2 years have seen success of such bands such as The Killers,Modest Mouse,The Bravery etc which mine heavily 2nd incarnation New Wave. These bands are having even more commercial success then their 1980’s counterparts consistently at the top of both the singles and Album charts. These groups have been referred as "New New Wave" and increasingly just "New Wave". which is really what they are. Somewhat to my regret I have concluded that New Wave music may not solely be associated with the late 1970’s thru 1980’s of my young adulthood. EK June 26th 2005

Thanks for using this theme for the last line of the New Wave article and if this was the inspiration for the post punk revival article you really did a good job building a house out of my foundation EK October 11th 2005

[edit] død over new wave!

[edit] hater new wave

ka ska æ me d? d e jo ushekka! vi har oppgave om d i skolen å æ hate d allerede som pæstn!!!!!!

[edit] æ heite Lars Birger Kverndal ferræstn

== Growing up during the early 80's == My interpretation of New Wave as a genre involved a particular use of the synthesizer as an instrument, but not the main instrument. Bands such as Eddie Grant, Sly Fox, Depeche Mode, Kim Wilde, Devo, and Tears for Fears mostly represented the New Wave sound whereas Yaz was the quintessential Techo sound. In the mid 80's, most New Wave bands simply moved away from the quintessential New Wave sound. Bands such as Talking Heads, Thompson Twins, The Pet Shop Boys, and Kim Wilde simply fell out of the limelight, while bands such as The Cars, and Duran Duran moved away from the New Wave sound and into more of a pop sound. Depeche Mode made a conscious decision to concentrate on House music. Starting in the mid 80's the discotech was making a comeback - especially in Europe. During the late 80's and well into the 90's there was something of an underground movement that was simply called "New Music" that kept the genre alive until it's minor resurgence in the early 2000's. "Sex" by Berlin is an example of the later style New Music sound to hit the charts from the underground scene. I did notice that many of the most successful New Wave bands of the early 80's ended up living and performing in Europe long after they were forgotten by Americans.

With all due respect, I would say your 'interpretation' is incorrect. The article explains where the term came from and what it applies to. I think some of those bands you're referring to are usually considered 'New Romantics', others just pop. It's always tempting to categorize bands, so we know how to pigeonhole them when we first hear them - "oh, they're like so-and-so" - but usually good bands try not to just copy others, but to be original. It's art. They also tend to evolve and develop, so the category we try to fit them in might change over time. Usually it's us doing the categorizing, not the band "deciding" to move into such-and-such an area. Combine that artistic sensibility with the fickleness of public taste, and the idiots in the music industry, and you end up with a constantly shifting, changing pattern which defies labels. So in other words, labels such as 'New Wave' might be a handy tag but are always only ill-defined terms that different people rarely agree on. In the meantime, the artists just do their own thing.Graham 23:59, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually, you're quite right, I ran out of time and had to leave before I could complete it. But saved what I wrote for later edit as I expected to change computers. I did not expect anyone to respond so quickly. My error. Since your contribution, I'll forgo editing and start anew to prevent confusion. You hit upon my major editing intent - to talk a bit about the blurred lines between categories. For instance, late Berlin is as easily categorized as House as New Music. In the case of Depeche Mode, they actually announced their intent to head into the club scene - thus we know it was a conscious decision. But as for the others such as The Cars, they simply progressed into a more mainstream sound over time. We actually agree on the major points you made. I also see your point about the New Romantics subgenre. That it lists nearly everything I mentioned is not lost upon me. The list given is quite across the board when it comes to the sound, though. Many bands did not use synthesizers but still had a peculiar sound that was clearly New Wave. Plus, Prince could be considered New Romantic in the way he dressed and perhaps in the way he acted. But many would classify his music as Alternative, rather than New Wave.

However, in my mind, there was more or less a definition of the genre that one could use at that particular time. For instance, in 1981 through 1983 the popular band Duran Duran was clearly New Wave. But I considered Sly Fox and Haircut 100 as also New Wave even though they were completely different. This despite the fact that I was not cognizent of what was on the producers minds at the time - we had no real internet with which to easily look up such things. The fact that the producers and I both agree on what was clearly the New Wave sound would be an astounding coincidence if it were just coincidence. But it is not coincidence - there was a definite sound to it, no matter how difficult it may be to clearly define it. Many of the bands attributed to New Wave were equally considered Punk or Pop. The Cars' first three albums could be considered both Pop and New Wave, but their Heartbeat City and subsequent albums saw them move away from the New Wave sound, or at least as I defined it circa 1981 when the genre hit it's stride (so to speak). We cannot define where the the edge of one genre ends and another picks up, but perhaps we can define the quintessential center of a genre at a particular time; knowing that the center will drift is some direction from year to year. Consider; my own preferences tended to drift towards the Pop side of the New Wave spectrum while someone else's preferences may drift towards the Punk or the Techo (or synth, if you prefer) sides of New Wave. All the music could be considered part of the New Wave genre but all three of us could be listening to completely different bands. In a way, one could argue that New Wave put the three genre's together similarly to the way Fusion did with world music. And that just because I may not like the punk side of it did not make it any less New Wave.

Perhaps you are correct and I'm trying to define something that can never be clearly defined or agreed upon. As you can see, it being "merely impossible" did not stop me from trying, though. But if you think I'm mangling this Wiki, I shall desist and give permission to edit or delete any and all of my contributions ;) 0945 EST, 8 February 2006

A perspective from someone who is a bit older. I am different then you in that my pre teen years were in the latter part of the AM Top 40 era and my teen years were the "Classic Rock" era thus the years in question here were my early adult years. The "New Wave" felt and sounded like like a New Wave. From long to short hair (until grunge) from rural roots to urban orientation from Album cuts back to singles and also the beginning of videos and computers everything seemed to change overnight. Every song was the best ever until the next one I heard. Back to your point people did have a tough time trying to describe the varying types of music going on. Remember Dance Oriented Rock or DOR,Modern Rock Oi,and some people by the mid 80's started to use "alternative rock". But emotionally to me all of it even punk fell under the "New Wave" umbrella. 3:23, 7 March 2006 EK

The discussion above is very interesting, but i'm not sure I agree with either one of you. I grew up in the 80's and we (my friends and I) liked many different types of music - including what we termed 'New Wave". When we used the term "New wave", we were speaking of bands like Depeche Mode, Erasure, New Order, Morrissey, Yaz, The Cure, Gary Neuman, etc... We never considered bands like The Cars to be new wave. In fact, The Cars first album is really a rock album and where I grew up (NYC) they were constantly played on Classic Rock Radio and never on New Wave Radio (WLIR). As far as Duran Duran is concerned, I would say we considered them Pop. As far as 'Modern Rock" or "Alternative Rock" is concerned, we reserved that for the bands that came out in the 90's. I guess the main problem is that this article doesnt really explain "New Wave" to the way many of us who grew up in the 80's think of new wave. I noticed that Wiki has an article on Synthpop and that category seems to fit more with what I remember New Wave to be and Synthpop is an expression I nor my friends growing up never used.


I fully agree with these WPs, this article has not been written by someone that "lived" the new wave era. Brian W 12:00, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

There's different interpretations of what New Wave is and isn't, even at the time. In England, post-punk was clearly defined and the Smiths were certainly not considered a New Wave band. The Cars are generally considered a New Wave band, although I can see why some people wouldn't think so. Nowadays people are trying to make serious attemtps to delinate the genre, and so certain things in retrospect will and won't be considered New Wave. WesleyDodds 22:34, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Like New Wave this discussion came back from the dead. The Cars are a very interesting subject. At the time they broke they were described as "New Wave" and also criticized for "selling out". They were named best new rock band of 1978 by many people. Before then here in the U.S.A. unlike in England and Europe our understanding of “punk” was through negative sensational newspaper and television stories. The Cars were the first New Wave group we actually heard. As a New York area resident like the poster above I will give what I remember of Cars airplay. WPIX-FM had a New Wave format for a brief period in 1979 and played The Cars constantly. The two prominent college radio New Wave programs at the dawn of the 1980’s were New York University’s “New Afternoon Show” and Hofstra University's “Post Punk Progressive Pop Party” (Still love that name). The Cars were played on neither. From 1971 until 1982 WLIR was a progressive rock station that stayed that way even while the other rock stations became more commercial. In this regard they were the only ones to play Punk and New Wave Bands on a regular basis. I do not remember if they played The Cars. In 1982 they switched to a full New Wave,Synthpop singles oriented format which is what I believe you were describing. They did not play The Cars. Today The Cars are a staple of Classic Rock Radio. They are not played very much on New Wave nostolgia formats making a good case that The Cars are not New Wave. However unlike some bands such as The Police or Cheap Trick and U2 who were considered New Wave circa 1979-1981 but which I do not consider New Wave today I do consider The Cars as belonging to the genre. They had the look (remember skinny ties) associated with the New Wave of the period. The sound used synthesizers, they were urban oriented and the lyrics had a cynical edge. Looking back the analogy I make is that The Cars to New Wave were like AOL was to the Internet in 1995. The opened the door for you to go in as deep as you wanted. 14:06, 11 June (EK)

[edit] Dark wave

In the late '70s and the early '80s there were european bands with a dark sound... the cure (faith), joy division (closer), later depeche mode (black celebration)... they were called Dark wave. That's definitely a part of the New wave history... don't delete this term!

Judging from the Darkwave article, it seems more a broad term and doesn't become a proper genre until the 90s. Those bands you mentioned are more accurately classified as post-punk or gothic rock. WesleyDodds 07:36, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Exactly! Folkor 04:51, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
the classical Gothic rock is a part of dark wave. Dark wave isn't really a genre of music... it is an umbrella term like New wave and describes the dark thing within the New wave movement. After the new wave movement was over, dark wave survived in the underground until in the '90s. It's defintiely a term from the '80s used for DM or Joy Division and later mainly used for german Wave music groups like Deine Lakaien.
In the US, darkwave became popular through the label Projekt Records. they used the term for their mail order service. You must know, Projekt Records was cooperating with the german label Hyperium Records in the early '90s. Projekt borrowed the term Darkwave from germany in the middle or the end of the '90s...
BTW: Post Punk isn't a musicstyle. It was a term used in the early '80s to describe different kinds of music developed in the UK after the Punk era (Two-Tone Ska, Oi!, Mod, Positive punk, etc.). There's a book from 1984, called "Who´s been sleeping in my brain"... read it.
Post-punk is more of a music style than Darkwave, because I can go to a bookstore or a magazine stand, pull something out, and find a lot of material on the genre. And of the styles you listed, post-punk only covers Postitive punk, which quickly became gothic rock. The problem with Darkwave is there's no real set idea or description of it until the 90's; the 80s bands classifed are a hodgepodge that at the time were already classfied under a varitey of genres including post-punk, New Wave, goth, dream pop, and so forth. It's certainly valid as a generic term, but not as a genre term, especially in relation to New Wave since a lot of Darkwave bands aren't New Wave. WesleyDodds 23:28, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proto New Wave that had nothing to do with Punk

As the article said in the beginning punk rock and New Wave were interchangeable. Even today it is hard to imagine New Wave occurring without punk rock turning the music industry upside down. But an look back shows that major glam acts such as David Bowie and T-Rex to an extent as well as Sparks,Roxy Music and Kraftwork produced music that was singles,urban an synthesizer oriented and predated the punk rock explosion.. Both Roxy Music’s “Love is a Drug” and David Bowie's “TVC 15” fully New Wave however you want to look at it landed on the charts on both sides of the Atlantic in 1976 months before The Sex Pistols went on the Bill Grundy Show. 01:47, 16 June 2006 (EK)

The comments above seemed to be an inspiration to change the overview from "born out of the punk rock movement” to "born out of the punk rock movement however taking little or no influence from punk.". This is a misinterpretation of what I was saying. My reason for those comments were to point out the largely unrecognized fact that there were elements of new wave that had little inspiration from punk. I was defiantly not saying that new wave had little or no influence from punk. Indeed punk strongly influenced new wave. New wave took from Punk its urban orientation, singles format, cynical attitude, fast beat and some fashion elements. Some punk rockers criticized new wave for being a watered down version of punk. 01:54, 14 August 2006 (EK)

[edit] Tom Petty

Does the paragraph about Tom Petty really belong in here? What did Tom Petty have to do with New Wave?

[edit] Sasaki Problem

moved from wikipedia talk:contact us

As a new user, I made some changes to the pages. A so called Expert keeps on changing them. Ok maybe he is correct, but I added Info to the New Wave music page which was a well known opinion by Nu Metal fans. But Sasaki deleted this, who is he/she to continually make changes to my contributions for no reason. So basically this is a complaint about him/her Sasaki, I will stop making contributions from now on. What is the worth of me investing time in Wiki, if some know-it-all wants to control all the information. This is a problem with Wikipeadia that some users are continually deleting peoples effort. This is a complaint against Sasaki basically. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.10.93.147 (talk • contribs) .

"a well known opinion by Nu Metal fans", do I really need more than WP:POV to explain my actions? Sasaki 20:33, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

You are continually targeting what ever I do, what do you have no life. Whenever a change is made you are there? There is plenty of opinions in Wiki and if it was just plain fact then half the articles would not exist. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.10.93.147 (talk • contribs) .

Again, may I direct you towards WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL? Sasaki 20:40, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I know the dam rules, but you cannot deny that to make a page opinions are needed. Firstly I doubt you understand western music, so why are you editing these type of pages. Wow the rules, the rules are being followed, the problem is that you feel, you are the only Information source. You are ruining Wiki, this is a serious complaint. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.10.93.147 (talk • contribs) .

Where to start? Well firstly I take great offence to your thinly veiled racism. Someone's location or ethnic background does not preclude them from having knowledge of any given subject. However, for the record, I am white, live in the UK, and grew up listening to new wave. While I do not consider myself an expert, I consider myself sufficiently knowledgeable to judge whether your contribution was a valid one. If you really want to know what ruins Wikipedia, it is when people with limited knowledge insert irrelevant, inaccurate and unnecessary information into an article, thereby compromising the integrity of Wikipedia. Sasaki 21:58, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I'm trying to start a new WikiProject on New Wave music

and I sure would appreciate your support with this project, not only in the proposal stage but also with the actual execution of this proposed WikiProject, should I manage to get enough support for it to go live. If you have any ideas, suggestions, etc., that would be lovely and I would love for more people to participate and make this WikiProject, like, totally awesome, dude. (Krushsister 03:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Urgh! A Music War airs on VH1 Classic

I happened upon the last thirty minutes or so while channel flipping. I added a mention in the article for that movie. If only I knew beforehand . I had not seen the film since the 1980's. Some incredible but forgotten gems. I hope they air again it better yet a the DVD of it is released. 69.114.117.103 07:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC) (EK)

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