Talk:Nevil Shute

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After initially getting a 404 Not Found for "The Nevil Shute Book Page," I fixed the URL. I then took a closer look at the site, and and it appears to be not much more than an ad for someone selling second-hand Nevil Shute books. I could find very little information or material on Nevil Shute at this site.

I believe the link ought to be removed and will remove it in a day or so unless someone can give me a good reason why it should stay or point to something I've missed at the site. Dpbsmith 03:21, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

• I agree. Kill it. DavidWBrooks 14:06, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Contents 1 Great link, thanks for adding it 2 No book-seller links, please 3 "libertarian" viewpoint? 4 Little bit of plagiarism 5 Trustee from the Toolroom 6 Vinland the Good 7 Round the Bend

[edit] Great link, thanks for adding it

That Mr Norway site is very interesting. Great stuff. Thanks for adding it. -- Dpbsmith (talk) 12:36, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• Re the link: My pleasure. You may find other items of interest on my site - go to http://delarue.net/. You can also contact me via the site. -- kdelarue 03:22, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] No book-seller links, please

I removed one. - DavidWBrooks 19:01, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• I have to say that the actual page linked to was informative and advertising-free. And the site itself is not the site of one particular dealer selling books. The real objection is that as nearly as I can tell, it added nothing to the article—it contained no information that was not already there. So I think your call was a good one. However, I'd hope we'd accept a link to a commercial site if it were genuinely useful and informative. We should watch and see if this anon tries to systematically add more links to the same site. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:10, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• • You're right, my comment was overly brusque; the site wasn't as grossly buy-my-books as many are. External links can be tricky, of course, and your rule is good: The link has to add something that isn't there otherwise, and commercial sites can certainly do that. But there is a large gray area - discussion forums about an author are a perfect example. Or take a look at the various links that have come and gone on guinea pig - at what point does an ad-supported site selling pet supplies that also has some information make the cut? Tough one. - DavidWBrooks 20:24, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "libertarian" viewpoint?

An anonymous editor removed the section discussing Shute's portrayal of capitalism and individuality in his books. I have undone that removal - the discussion could be edited, but it's a legitimate topic. - DavidWBrooks 23:23, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• I am that anonymous editor, and I have some things to say / a couple of points I would like to discuss.
• 1) I realise that just deleting a whole section seems like vandalism running counter to the wikipedia ethos, especially if it is politically contentious and the editor is anonymous.
• 2) The section is politically contentious. I have only read On the Beach and am not a Nevil Shute scholar - there may be independent evidence that he actually did hold libertarian views (interviews, etc). However, the text I deleted suggested that he disapproved of charity and that he approved of "bribery and questionable financial dealings", basing this on the viewpoints of his characters. The first one (which "flashes by almost as an aside") seems to me rather like Shute is ridiculing the "young woman". In fact, I would challenge anyone to read the paragraph I deleted and deny that it was written by someone grinding a libertarian axe. Just try it.
• 3) I now have personal experience that intrusive edits are dealt with quickly and harshly, and that the Encyclopaedia Britannica flunkies have gotten it all wrong about vandals messing wikipedia up.
• 4) Dpbsmith, who wrote the paragraph I was trying to delete, and the meddling kid DavidWBrooks, are actually both - unlike me - serious contributors to Wikipedia, so it's kind of hard for me to brush them off.
• 5) Why is it that libertarians are always in the forefront of free culture, like wikipedia and linux, when this actually means you're ruining the market for Microsoft?

Not a libertarian here, bub - just somebody interested in articles that accurately describe interesting and important aspects of the subject matter. I've read almost all of Shute's novels, and the "noble individual doing great things by sticking to moral certainties and ignoring the herd" is a very common theme, well worth discusing. Don't allow your feelings about libertarianism (or anything else) to drive your edits.

The fact that the section is politically contentious doesn't mean it should be heaved out the window. If you think it grinds an axe, rewrite it. Improve it. Make it better, don't just kill it! (breaks into song) "That's the wiki w-a-a-a-ay!" - DavidWBrooks 20:10, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

P.S. No, there isn't a wikipedia song ... just kidding.

Hi! Sorry if I'm harrassing you about Nevil Shute... but wouldn't it be reasonable to produce some actual evidence (quotations, etc.) as to his actual political views here, instead of just riffing on what people in his books happen to say? He seems to have been a pretty public persona in Australia - he should have said something political somewhere.

A) No harrassing seen - this sort of back-and-forth is the whole point of wikipedia. Why don't you create an account so your posts can be timed? Then people know if a comment is from days ago or just a few minutes ago. (Also, without your account I can't answer notes you leave on my Talk page) B) The article seems to me to talk about the themes and styles in Shute's books, not his life. "Riffing on what people in his books happen to say" is a fairly common way of writing about an author's works, it seems to me! C) This portion of this article is not well-written and needs work, which I may do one of these days, although any and all are (of course) welcome to do it first. I think good NPOV editing could solve most of your concerns, Mr. Anonymous! - DavidWBrooks 22:15, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I thought it was clear that these portions of the article deal with recurrent themes in Nevil Shute's novels, not personal beliefs of Nevil Shute. I think the statement that Shute's novels "present money and private enterprise as sources of moral good" is almost as obvious as the statement that Shute's novels often involve aviation. If the phrase "they always have [it] as a subtext" is mine—and I'm afraid it is—well, yeah, that's going a bit far. But the examples are specific and the quotations are accurate.

Not to discuss these themes would be like failing to mention the Christian background in the work of J. R. R. Tolkien or C. S. Lewis.

I think it goes without saying that one should not assume that the words of Nevil Shute's fictional characters reflect Nevil Shute's own views.

Similarly, please do not assume that if dpbsmith writes "Nevil Shute's novels ... have, as a subtext, a firm belief in money and private enterprise as sources of moral good," that it means that dpbsmith holds that firm belief himself. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:26, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Little bit of plagiarism

Looks like some of the materials is derived from this link http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Nevil_Shute

PeaSea

It's the other way around. Congratulations, you've found a Wikipedia mirror. Scroll to the bottom of the page at your link and you'll notice it says: "This article is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License. It uses material from the Wikipedia article "Nevil_Shute".

But thanks for keeping your eyes peeled. If it had been copied from another website, you could have listed it under Wikipedia:Copyright problems or someone else could have listed it for you. Copyright violation is a big problem for Wikipedia and we can use help in spotting it. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:05, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Trustee from the Toolroom

I corrected the plot summary, which previously said the valuables were smuggled out of England "to avoid taxes". See Talk:Trustee from the Toolroom for the explanation. -Rbean 23:03, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vinland the Good

The link to this book points to a page that redirects to the Vinland page - nothing to do with Shute. A Shute expert needs to write at least a stub for that link, otherwise it looks as if that one is done and editors will concentrate on the 'red' links in the bibliography. Bduke 23:39, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Done, in extremely stubby fashion - a single sentence. - DavidWBrooks 00:15, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Round the Bend

The links within this article to Round the Bend go to an article about a kids TV show. I raised the matter on the talk page for that Round the Bend article but the suggestion came back that it should be fixed at the Nevile Shute end. I can edit the Nevile Shute page to remove the link but I was wondering if there is a real article somewhere for the Round the Bend novel? Couldn't find it using search. 193.113.57.163 14:20, 10 March 2006 (UTC)