Talk:Neptune

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Fact check article Data table - really necessary? Check format, grammar, and prose Watch for profanity

[edit] 2006 Draft Definition of a Planet

I have reverted an anonymous alteration of the article that states that Neptune is the Ninth planet (in light of the 2006 Redefinition of Planet). I don't think it's a good idea to go around changing scientific articles until the relavant body has actually come to a complete decision on it.Sycomonkey 13:34, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

If Pluto stays demoted to a dwarf planet, should the line about switching between the 8th and 9th planet be changed to something about it crossing orbits with pluto?

Yes. I'd give it a couple of weeks to be sure, but it seems that Neptune will be the 8th planet now at all times.Sycomonkey 12:34, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Galileo's Observation Updated

Updated description of Galileo's pre-discovery observation to mention conjunction with Jupiter which explains how it came to light. The source for this is the book 'Planet Quest' by Ken Crosswell. -- Alan Peakall

[edit] Interior

"core ..., surrounded by a mixture of rock, water, ammonia, and methane"?! I have hard time imagining a mixture of rock + water, and water + methane.

What states are present at different depths will depend on the temperature and pressure. Some chemicals you might expect to be a gas will be liquid (due to the pressure), and some solids will be liquid (due to the temperature). You might have a high-temperature, high-pressure mix of liquid rock, water, ammonia and methane, though I don't really know if this is technically possible. The interior heat will also churn things up a bit, so some mixing between levels will still be taking place. 194.200.237.219 12:41, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Atmospheric Pressure

So what's the atmospheric pressure for Neptune? Colipon 23:58, 6 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I updated the article with 1-3 bar (or 100-300 kPa). I'm not sure that is the most exact value, but it's better than nothing. :) Jugalator

NASA's Neptune Fact Sheet gives a Surface Pressure value of "much greater than 1000 bar" (100 MPa). A value of 1-3 bar that's currently on the article is just plain ridiculous. -- Prometheus235 20:31, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm puzzled by the meaning of atmospheric pressure on Neptune. Is it referred to the rocky surface or what? If it's referred to the rocky nucleus , I bet it's somehow larger than a mere 1-3 bar...Cyclopia

[edit] Triton's Retrograde Period

Triton has a orbital period of _minus_ five days? What does that mean? Jeronimo

it means its retrograde. (goes backwards) - fonzy

OK, but it's a lousy notation in that case. This seems to suggest the moon goes back in time... Jeronimo

Minus sign is often used for pointing out that the orbit is retrograde. BTW, data for the new giant planet satellites seems to be outdated. I'll update them soon. - jyril

Orbit periods should always be positive. A negative period implies that Triton's energy is an imaginary number. Retrograde orbits are denoted with inclinations greater than 90 degrees. -njs

jyril's right; a minus sign is used to indicate retrograde movement. I never liked it, but it is the way it's used. Perhaps, though, since a lot of people are unfamilar with it and it is contrary to other uses, a short note explaining it would be helpful? (Or just eliminating the minus sign and replacing it with 'r' for 'retrograde'?) CFLeon 00:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Five New Moons

I'm awfully confused.. we've known about these moons for a couple years, now. Why is it important that they were just now announced in Nature? I'm most confused about why it's listed as in the news... --Patteroast 23:35, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I didn't know they were already known. I just saw the new on Nature,and I thought it was a new discovery. Perhaps I should have checked,but you can admit it's odd to publish a discovery 2-3 years after it has been announced. Well, sorry. ----Cyclopia 01:07, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Updating Structure & Atmosphere

I've just tried to improve the material on the internal structure and atmosphere. A lot of my information I got from _Neptune and Triton_, ed. D.P. Cruikshank, 1995, although initially I may have made it worse based on misinterpreting what I read (and being misled by the Britannica). I think I have it right now, but there's much room for greater detail and so forth.Mark Foskey 00:46, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Moon navigator

The "moon navigator" has no purpose anymore as all the links are include in the footer, and are in sequence. It provides nothing but duplicate links. ed g2s • talk 03:54, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Adams vs. Le Verrier

A recent article in Scientific American [1] makes a strong case that Le Verrier deserves sole credit for discovering Neptune, and that the story of Adam's independent calculation may have been exaggerated.

This article seems to emphasize Adams' role over that of Le Verrier, which is not fair. Even if you don't believe the evidence presented by Scientic American, it's still clear that Le Verrier published first! He should get sole credit for the discovery!

Scientific historians are re-evaluating the priority of Le Verrier and Adams in light of the discovery of the "Neptune file", and the article on Neptune should probably mention this. I first became aware of the "Neptune file" issue when researching the article on Olin Eggen, and gave it a passing mention there, though I didn't mention its possible consequences for Adams' credit for discovery, since in the source I read at the time it was just speculation. The Scientific American article seems to go further. -- Curps 20:06, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Galileo Galilei and Neptune

What year did Galileo observe Neptune? The entry for Neptune (planet) says: "Galileo's astronomical drawings show that he had first observed Neptune on December 28, 1612, and again on January 27, 1613; on both occasions Galileo mistook Neptune for a fixed star when it appeared very close (in conjunction) to Jupiter in the night sky" but the entry for Galileo Galilei says: "Galileo observed the planet Neptune in 1611, but took no particular notice of it; it appears in his notebooks as one of many unremarkable dim stars." -- Mark Mathu July 30, 2005

Neptune (planet) is also internally inconsistent: it claims both Dec 27 and 28 within a few lines. -- ColinBell 13 Mar 2006

It's probably referring to "the night of Dec 27/28" and not knowing if the sighting was before or after midnight. However, the article should be consistant with itself. CFLeon 21:12, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Galileo is known to have observated Neptune on 2 occasions: Dec, 1612 and Jan, 1613. Neptune was at the slowest point of its orbit and had just turned retrograde, although i don't have the actual date it did so. See list below. CFLeon 22:22, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested Move

Support strongly. Neptune the planet is by far the most important of the Neptune articles.--Jyril 12:52, August 5, 2005 (UTC)
Support Dragons flight 18:33, August 5, 2005 (UTC)
Support Septentrionalis 19:11, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
Support. Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Uranus are a precedent for this: the planet articles probably outweigh the Roman god articles. -- Curps 19:32, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
Support. As with other planet names. – AxSkov (T) 07:09, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

My thinking is that people looking up the mythological character won't mind being redirected to 'Poseidon' (or 'Ares' or 'Zeus', etc). Very few people would be looking up the ROMAN version specifically. CFLeon 21:12, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

This article has been renamed after the result of a move request.

[edit] Trojans

Added mention of the trojans - then saw there is no explicit mention of Jupiter's on the Jupiter page. Please feel free to remove this here if it is not considered appropriate.

On the trojan link, it says, "The Trojan asteroids are a large group of objects that share the orbit of the planet Jupiter around the Sun." I'm confused as to which would be considered correct. Also, with asteroids sharing orbits with neptune and jupiter, I think rationale as to how they have "cleared their neighborhood" to be considered a planet now should be included perhaps. 72.241.7.173 05:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)Mike

I think the point of the 'dominating the neighbourhood' is that if Neptune and Pluto did come very close together, it's Pluto that would be thrown off course or even crash into Neptune, with Neptune continuing on pretty much as before. Therefore Neptune is the planet, and Pluto is the dwarf. The same can be said for those asteroids I think. Does that make sense? Aaron McDaid (talk - contribs) 11:16, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Triton compared to Luna

Wouldn't this make more sense on the Triton page? The Singing Badger 02:49, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Some people wanted a summary of the major moons on the Jupiter and Saturn pages, because the full tables are rather overwhelming. The Galileians and the 7 main Saturnian moons are all that many readers would be interested in. I added a Luna comparison to give a familiar connection. Anyway, I thought if I did it for two planets I should do it for all of them so the articles are kept parallel. Triton's just the only major Neptunian moon. kwami 07:30, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dear NASA

Dear NASA,

Why not send weather satellites to Neptune? Then we could put them on TV, for a Neptune Weather Channel akin to the current (Earth) Weather Channel. I'm sure lots of people would be interested to see up-to-the-minute pictures and video of Neptune. oneismany 11:47, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

That’s a pretty big expensive project for NASA to send a probe into deep space for rather irrelevant reasons such as weather. Even Cassini's images of Saturn are pretty boring (new ones). On Neptune the chances of another Great Dark Spot forming are miniscule (perhaps?), as well Neptune and Uranus have thin rings darker than charcoal. Besides most people want more information on Pluto since it has not yet been visited by a probe. I personally find Neptune a beautiful blue planet but Neptune doesn't have as many features present on Jupiter or Saturn.

If somehow NASA decides to visit Neptune again I would still support it. I predict a time when faster vehicles will endeavor into deep space using ion drive.--King of the Dancehall 22:55, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Better direct all the NASA money to private space ventures prize money... would bring us there _much_ faster...

[edit] Prediscovery Observations?

Is there an interest in the listing of the sightings before 1846? I've made a list and can put it up if people want it. CFLeon 21:12, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd be interested in such things. Also, I'd be interested in a clarification of how the planet was named. The article says, "Neptune is named after the Roman god of the sea because of its blue methane clouds." If Neptune was discovered in 1846, how were the astronomers who discovered it aware of the presence of methane, much less the color of the planet? Using an 1846-era telescope, is Neptune visibly blue (as implied in the article)? More information on the discovery (and prediscovery) of the planet would be an excellent addition. 66.17.118.207 18:25, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Here's my list. Someone will have to tabulize it for the article. CFLeon 22:13, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

1612 Dec 27/28- Galileo Galilei
1613 Jan 27- Galileo Galilei
1795 May 8, 10- Joseph Jerome F. Lalande (2nd observation actually noticed movement, but assumed it was error on his part) [S. C. Walker/ A. C. Petersen, 1847]
1830 Jul 14- John Herscel [?D. Rawlins, 1981]
1845 Oct 25- 'Dr. Lamont' (Munich) [J. R. Hind, 1850]
1846 Aug 4- John Challis [Challis, 1846?]
1846 Aug 12- John Challis [Challis, 1846?]
1846 Sep 7- Dr. Lamont [J. R. Hind, 1850]
1846 Sep 11- Dr. Lamont [J. R. Hind, 1851]
1846 Sep 29- John Challis [Challis, 1846? After news of Neptune's discovery Challis said he had actually have noticed a disk and he was LOOKING for the planet at the time; but the next night was cloudy when he tried to observe and the moon was too bright the following nights. Challis claimed he had seen Neptune 5 times before Neptune's discovery was announced on October 1.]

Sources:

Grossner, Morton; The Discovery of Neptune (1962)
Hoyt, William Graves; Planets X and Pluto (1980)
Ley, Wiley; Watchers of the Skies (1963)
Littmann, Mark; Planets Beyond (1988)
Rawlins, Dennis: "The Unslandering of Sloppy Pierre", Astronomy Sept, 1981, pgs 24-8
Standage, Tom: The Neptune File (2000)
Tombaugh, Clyde (w/ Patrick Moore); Out of the Darkness: The Planet Pluto (1980)

[edit] Speed of Winds

Three different estimates (are they really estimates?) are given concerning the speed of winds on Neptune.

Says the introduction: "Neptune also has 2,500 km/h winds of ...". The section on Physical characteristics: "Neptune's atmosphere has the highest wind speeds in the solar system, up to 2000 km/h,...". And later the section on weather: "[Neptune] has extremely violent hurricanes whose winds reach 1,000 mph."

Which is the correct one or more accurate or closer to the observations? The discrepancy between the three figures is a major one. I won't edit the page. Can an expert clarify it? cubic[*]star 20:24, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

==Rings of Neptune== was created by User:202.173.128.90. Don't know if you would like to merge or redirect. Rings of Neptune contains mostly info already in main article. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 12:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Surface Area

Please convert the surface area of Neptune into the same format as the other planets. (Comparaison to Earth)

done Deuar 12:20, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neptune's Surface

"There is no solid surface and the atmosphere, extending perhaps 10 to 20 percent of the way towards the center, is mostly hydrogen and helium at high altitudes (80% and 19%, respectively)." How do we know this? Has anyone ever been beneath Neptune's clouds?--24.59.186.128 01:57, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I have, it's wicked physodelic man..you should go there sometime.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Something14 (talk • contribs) 00:16, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Huh?

Does the phrase

its stronger gravitational field has compressed it to a higher density

actually make sense? If I remember my physics correctly, its stronger gravitational field is a result, not a cause, of its higher density. David 10:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

A "stronger gravitational field" is simply a function of greater mass but does not in-itself determine density as I understand it (else Saturn ought to be more dense than both, which it's not). I presume Neptune has a slightly larger rock core than Uranus. Perhaps the sentence is meant to suggest that this would cause the over-laying gas to compress to a greater degree? I'll remove it until we have a source better explaining it. Marskell 16:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Difference between Neptune and Unanus

One difference between Neptune and Uranus is the level of meteorological activity. Uranus is visually quite bland, while Neptune's high winds come with notable weather phenomena.

Actually, Uranus was apparently quite bland in 1986 when Voyager went near, and when one of Uranus' poles was pointing almost sunward. Since then Space Satellite images have indicated that Uranus has more wind patterns, as the sun is now almost equatorial for the planet.

Also, it is said in a lot of sources that Uranus, unlike the other 3 giants, does not appear to radiate energy in excess of what it gets from the sun. I would like to know if this is still the case, now that Uranus is almost equatorial toward the sun. In otherwords could all of this be seasonal? I don't know exactly how I would find out this, or is it known?Roo60 21:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Full account

 There is a full account of the discovery of Neptune by Nick Kollerstrom on

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/sts/nk/neptune/within/htm

This seems to give more detail than the 2004 article, also partly by Kollerstrom.

[edit] Discovery through mathematics

The article states, "Discovered on September 23, 1846, Neptune is notable for being the only planet discovered based on mathematical prediction rather than regular observations." Pluto was also discovered that way. In each case, mathematical analysis yielded a prediction about where the planet would be found; astronomers then found the planet by making observations in keeping with the prediction. Yes, the observation part of the discovery of Pluto was far more taxing, because the planet was smaller and more distant, but the observations were guided by the mathematics. I suggest that this sentence be changed from "only planet" to "first planet".

My understanding is that Pluto is still considered a planet, though its status is under review. If the "only planet" phrase is defended on the ground that Pluto isn't a planet, then the second sentence, which assumes that Pluto is a planet, should be changed. JamesMLane t c 08:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I quote from the Pluto article

Ironically, Pluto is far too small to have the effect on Neptune's orbit that initiated the search. The discrepancies in Neptune's orbit observed by 19th century astronomers were due instead to an inaccurate estimate of Neptune's mass. Tombaugh's discovery is therefore even more surprising, given that the proximity of the predictions of Pickering, Lowell and Ketakar were coincidences.

Therefore I think the current wording describes it correctly, that only Neptune was found through mathematical prediction. Awolf002 11:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Titan's orbit: Retrograde & synchronous?

I have moved the following question from the main article. RupertMillard (Talk) 19:51, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

How can Titan have an orbit that is both retrograde and synchronous? I know how it could have synchronous rotation, but synchronous orbit and retrograde orbit seem logically incompatible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jc42 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Naming

In his Naming and Necessity, Saul Kripke uses Neptune as an example and claims that it was actually named prior to being directly observed [2]. However, the article claims that Neptune wasn't named until "Shortly after its discovery"' — which is correct? Now, Kripke was making a philosophical point with his example, and not a scientific one, so it's quite possible he stretched the truth a bit for illustrative purposes (or was simply wrong), but since it's a well-known example it should probably be clarified. I'm trying to find better sources now, but if anyone else has some information to share it would be appreciated. --Wclark 02:52, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pluto

I know Pluto has recently been relegated from Planet status, but as a mark of respect let's wait a month before we change it. Pluto R.I.P. ;-( 86.143.234.154 19:45, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Second Paragraph

I would argue that the last sentence of the second paragraph is unnecessary as it has already been stated that the the surface of the planet is very cold earlier on in the paragraph. I will delete this sentence if others agree. 23/09/06 22:16

[edit] GA Re-Review and In-line citations

Note: This article has a small number of in-line citations for an article of its size and currently would not pass criteria 2b.
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 00:43, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Neptune, Physical characteristics. 1: Composition, second paragraph, second line: "There is no solid surface [for a core consisting of molten rock and metal?]". 2: Weather, third paragraph, fourth line: "they [i.e., Uranus and Neptune] have a larger solid core [than Jupiter and Saturn]". In my mind that seems at least confusing. Perhaps conflicting. Met.K. 10:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bremiker

The star chart mentioned in the section entitled  "Discovery" was by Carl Bremiker.

Chart XXI is Hour XXI.

[edit] Infobox

There is a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Astronomical_objects#Planet_infobox_conventions_.28km_vs._AU_vs._miles.29 on standardizing the planet infoboxes, as well as the possibility of changing the planet diameter to radius. If you care about these things, let your opinion be heard there. Lunokhod 10:12, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

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