Talk:Neofolk

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Archives
March 2005 – March 2006

Contents 1 Changes 2 Von Thronstahl 3 Neoclassical vs. Neoclassicistic 4 Citing sources and External links 5 Band lists

[edit] Changes

Could someone who knows more than I do (read: anything) about the band Changes go and edit their article? I get the impression that they're sort of important, and at any rate there's definitely more to say about them than that pathetic little stub that's there. Thanks for any help you can give! Cantara 06:01, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Read some information about the band and you do it? That is what wiki is for. And changes was not known by many until the 90's when Moynihan got them some exposure. Yes they were making music in the late 60's but no one knew of them until the 90's after the emergence of neofolk. Thus they were never considered major players in this scene. Fleischbox

Alright, alright. I assumed that they were well-known, since when I saw them perform it seemed like everyone was familiar with them except me. Obviously if I do read anything about them I'll add it, but I was operating on the assumption that there were people out there who were knowledgable already. Cantara 21:16, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Don't let Fleisch discourage you. He's just a grumpy displaced kraut! I created a little Robert N. Taylor stub per your suggestion and will get around to updating the Changes page here in time. :bloodofox: 06:42, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I've since updated the stub into a more informative article, although it could still use some more work. :bloodofox: 14:44, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Von Thronstahl

Certain (usually anonymous users) keep adding him to the artist links, and others usually Bloodofox delete him (which i have no problem with, i'm just noting). What's going on with this exactly? I've heard him on a few neofolk based online radio stations and know that it's not unusual to see him connected to the scene via popular neofolk based websites like Fluxeuropa, but i'm personally not super familiar with his music myself so I can't make a judgement call. I'm wondering if this semi-edit war doesn't go back to the question "what makes up neofolk". Can the term Neofolk be a catch all for styles like martial and neo-classical or is it strictly now, only, connected to bands (or rather, as the case may be, specific albums) that are closely folk instrumental? Just curious.--Adrift* 04:15, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

The user (it appears to be a single person) who keeps adding Von Thronstahl to the list never gives a reason as to why it should be there. Von Thronstahl is definitely martial music and even rock music but very questionably neofolk, I'd say. There's a few tracks that approach synthetic folk instrumentation but, really, it belongs here less than Der Blutharsch does - Their obvious initial inspiration. The very term "neofolk" implies folk instrumentation. There's the association of other genres, which we mention here, but the term is most often used to describe folk music of this vein. Being pretty familiar with their body of work and even having heavily contributed to the little Von Thronstahl Wikipedia article, I'd personally say that Von Thronstahl have more "rock" songs than anything approaching this sort of music. :bloodofox: 07:46, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neoclassical vs. Neoclassicistic

I checked the links in this article and found a little term problem. In the english wikipedia, neoclassical means neoclassicistic... but that's wrong. There is a difference between these genres. Neoclassical is an outgrowth of the music of Dead Can Dance and In The Nursery in the late '80s. It's modern classical... or freestyle classical. That's not the same like neoclassicism... --Menorrhea 02:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I think the terms are overloaded. In neofolk/martial/industrial/etc. circles, "neoclassical" usually means music that uses instrumentation typical of classical music (violins, pianos, etc.), and is broadly neoclassicist in terms of subject matter and style (atmospheric; themes of past glory; album covers are often ancient ruins; etc.). Groups like Arditi, A Challenge of Honour, etc. are frequently described as "neoclassical" in reviews and interviews. So basically I think we should clarify this at neoclassical, to make clear that the term means different things to different subcultures. --Delirium 00:40, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citing sources and External links

can someone who has either;

• Diesel, Andreas und Dr. Gerten, Dieter: Looking for Europe - Neofolk und Hintergründe., Zeltingen-Rachtig 2005, ISBN 3936878-02-1

or

• Speit, Andreas u.a. (Hrsg.): Ästhetische Mobilmachung: Rechtsextreme Tendenzen in der Dark Wave- und Neofolkszene., Münster 2002, ISBN 3897718049

possibly check out WP:CITE and add some references to the article? it would do a lot to to increasing its credability. also, with Wikipedia:External links and WP:NOT in mind, are all the bands and zines in the external links section notable enough to be mentioned? seems like it could do with a bit of a prune to me --MilkMiruku 18:33, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

It's probably worth noting that this article was around before Looking For Europe was published and was, at that time, very similar to its present form despite the book release. However, I've read very negative things about Ästhetische Mobilmachung and I can personally tell you that any contribution I've made to this article most certainly was not derived from it. :bloodofox: 22:34, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

fair enough then. can you think of any book that could have info we could reference on the article? --MilkMiruku 23:07, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I can't, unfortunately. It would be nice to have some solid references for this article but it would be difficult to attribute links to anything else but zines, many of which no longer exist. I suppose we could use more interview quotes as well for reference. :bloodofox: 15:17, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Band lists

It's not encyclopedic to create a list of links to band websites and festivals for a genre's External Links section. If they are notable, they should be linked to within Wikipedia. A lot of these linsk should be removed, and if no one has any major objection, I wil do it shortly. WesleyDodds 05:34, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Feel free. I'll go through what you've changed and we'll go from there. :bloodofox: 09:34, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I've removed most of them. Band and label links on a genre page constitute promotion (they should appear on the pages of the bands and labels themselves) and foreign-language links have no place on the English Wiki. I left the English fanzines and one of the festivals because they might be informative (haven't checked them out yet), but the External Links should be exclusively about information regarding the specific topic of the article. Something like an online article about the genre would be a good example of an acceptable link. WesleyDodds 04:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)