User talk:Neil Craig

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[edit] Your edits over at Srebrenica Massacre

In his edit today you wrote :“This event happened shortly after the Krajina Holocaust in which virtually the entire population of the Krajina Republic (250,000) in Serb populated territory claimed by Croatia was ethnically cleansed & 10s of thousands killed - this has not been generally regarded as being as controversial as Srebrinica, perhaps because of German, American & NATO involvement.”

This is an amazing error filled distortion of history; first of all, Srebrenica happened in early July 1995, while Operation Storm began on August 5 1995, a full month after Srebrenica. Secondly, the overwhelming majority of Serbs left before the Croatian army came in an effort organized by Serb leadership, probably to populate the ethnically cleansed areas of Bosnia and improve the number of Serbs in Kosovo and Vojvodina were many were settled, they were not expelled, and there is countless evidence and documents that attest to this. Third, not even the most radical of Serb nationalists claim that there were “10s of thousands of Serbs killed during Operation Storm”, the number given by them are around 1000-1500, while Croatian authorities put it between 150-300. ICTY puts it around 500-600. GeneralPatton 12:30, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Since the Srebrenica massacre never happened, at least in the advertised form, the date it didn't happen on notvery relevant - the important point is when the western propaganda about it became intense - nonetheless I acknowledge I should have made that clear. As regards the claim that the "overwhelming majority" of Serbs had left when the Holocaust started - this is nonsense, Milosevic had tried to persuade people to leave but after all, just as the slopes of Vesuvius are still farmed few people will leave their ancestral homes merely because they are warned. As regards that even the most radical Serbs say no more than 1500 were murdered may I direct you to emperors-clothes.com/articles/elich/krajina.html saying 14,000. Numbers given by the followers of Tudjman, who said Hitler only killed just over 100,000 Jews, should not be treated seriously, nor should the ICTY. Since, of the 560,000 Serbs formerly in Croatia the UKn government has said only 250,000 are accounted for in Serbia & Bosnia I could wish that your figures were in some way correct. Neil Craig

Hm..as I see, your involvement on the side of Serbs is rather obvious. OK, everyone has right to sympathize with one side in the conflict-whatever the reason. But, your figures, as well as your rhetoric and interpretation are simply-false. Just to inform you that any rational and founded view is welcome re these issues. But not Greater Serbia jabber. Mir Harven 15:08, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The figures are not false (perhaps you would say specifically which figure is false & publically apologise when it is justified)indeed the only proven false figure here is that Patton specifically said no Serb claims more than 1500 died in the Krajina Holocaust - I trust nobody would say that is true. If you have proof of my irrationality then present it.

All that leaves is that anybody is allowed to put forward views here as long they are pro-nazi - thanks I had worked that out for myself.

[edit] Pope JP II and Genocide

I would define 'actively assisting genocide' as for instance, giving money specificially for the rebel campaigns in Darfur. Tudjman writing complimentary stmts about Genocide is distinct from Tudjman comitting genocide . about which I have no opinion. However, the Pope may have given Tudjman money for other purposes, and in order to prove the 'surprising' fact that the pope 'actively' supports genocide, I think you would need to show that the money was given to Tudjman for the purposes of genocide. Also, if that was the case, there would be much coverage of it, I have seen none.

I'm not going to remove them, but I wonder if others will also find your edit questionable data for an encyclopedia of facts. - Rye1967 05:19, Nov 14, 2004 (UTC)

I would consider "actively assisting" as involving activity that assists when the perpetrator knew or should have known what was going on. For example when the French authorities sent Jews east for what was officially called "resettlement" they were actively assisting in the Holocaust, equally the Catholic Church actively assisted in the Inquisition tho' officially when handing over people to be burned they said they should be well treated. I have put a link on the page giving details. When, knowing Tudjman was publically committed to genocide, the point of the quote, they gave $2billion, "not to be used to buy weapons" they clearly knew it would be used directly or indirectly to help Tudjman's genocidal programme. After Tudjman's death the ICTY said he was a war criminal whom they just hadn't got round to indicting.

As regards the lack of coverage in our media - I am afraid I am much more cynical than you - partly because I know the difference between the lies the media have told us about these wars & the truth which the net now allows us to dig for (tho' there is rather more active censorship on some pages here than I am comfortable with).