Talk:NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship

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Wouldn't it be better to put the championship games in chronological order (1939 to 2004) rather than reverse chronological order, which we now have shown?

I suppose it may be splitting hairs, but I see the following advantages: (1) because we link the first occurrence of each school name, this would highlight the first time that a school makes the championship game, not the most recent; (2) by asking people to scroll down to the current season, it emphasizes how many championship games have come and gone; (3) events do, after all, happen in chronological order.

(If special weight is to be given to the current year, it could be placed in the text before the list.)

What do you think? Rjyanco 12:20, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Some changes

I've tweaked the page, most notably by putting the championship results into table form. I've also done some basic cleaning. Enjoy, and go Tar Heels... Semolina Pilchard 00:22, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merger

I'm thinking we should merge Final Four, March Madness, and NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship. Amendment: also proposing the merger from Elite Eight and Bracketology. -- Jjjsixsix

This comment is cross-posted onto all associated talk pages.

JnB987 20:25, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to be undecided on this one. It's a tough call, because in some ways, they deserve their own articles. In others, they're the exact same thing. Judging by the article though, March Madness might deserve to stay, while Final Four should be merged. TrafficBenBoy 02:59, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

  • They should all be merged. The distinctions between what is meant by "march madness" and "final four" can be adequately described in one article. The redirect from Final Four might point to a section on that topic in this article. --Dystopos 20:09, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong disagree. March Madness has a history quite distinct from (and more interesting than) Final Four. Eventually this article needs to be expanded to cover the history of the phrase and the trademark battles, which after ten years are still under litigation. BlongerBros 14:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
    • I finally "discovered" the Elite Eight page and updated it. Elite Eight also has (or had) multiple trademark claims and likewise has a separate history from Final Four. Along with Sweet Sixteen, I think they all deserve to be dealt with separately. I know some about the history of these marks and would be glad to elaborate. BlongerBros 02:46, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Yes: Final Four, Elite Eight, Bracketology (here, or March Madness if it stays); Maybe: March Madness. -- Jjjsixsix (talk)/(contribs) @ 07:06, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
  • I don't really sense a consensus here regarding Bracketology, so I reverted it back to the original article. While I agree that March Madness and the Final Four (as it relates to college basketball) are essentially the same concept, I argue that bracketology is a seperate concept, the speculation regarding seedings and entries and such. I think it's also a seperate field of college basketball expertise. If everyone else disagrees, so be it, but I don't get the sense that the bracketology redirect was really discussed. Thanx! --Maxamegalon2000 21:02, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad there's a separate article. I'm not a basketball fan and I never heard of bracketology, but when I saw there was a wikipedia article on it, I knew I'd get good info quickly. None of the other websites using the term bothered to explain it because they figured only basketball fans who knew it already would be viewing the site.

"Nowhere is the growth of the bracket's prestige more evident than with the proliferation of bracketology, a concept defined in Wikipedia, not Webster's." - The New York Times I don't think we can merge this into anything now! ;-) -- SCZenz 05:03, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I also came here looking for general information on tournament formats. If "bracketology" has general application outside of NCAA, then it should be described in more general terms, then linked to a discussion of NCAA tournament play (as well as anywhere else it makes sense.) -- Just my two cents. Bspisak 22:23, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

What about Most Outstanding Player? It's just a list right now, and could easily be added on as another column in the table of past champions. fuzzy510 09:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Source for the records?

What exactly is the source for the records given here? At least one of them is flat-out wrong: the record for FG% for at least 10 FGM belongs not to Bill Walton for his 95.5% performance but to Christian Laettner, who was 10-for-10 vs. Kentucky in the 1992 Elite Eight (source); the game is best remembered not for Laettner's perfection but his score of the winning points as time expired on a miraculous Grant Hill pass from the opposite baseline. So is someone just getting these stats from an internal repository in his mind, or is there an actual website involved in the consultation? I'm just going to remove that statistic for now, since I honestly think that other people have gone 10-for-10 or better besides Laettner. StarryEyes 13:05, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Historical Brackets

I've done some preliminary work towards creating an article for each and every NCAA tournament, 1939-2004. A sample page for the 1991 tournament is at User:Dantheox/NCAA. There's nothing special about 1991 -- creation of these pages is completely automated, so once a standard format is settled on, creating all 66 (?) tournament pages won't take very long. That being said, I'd love to get some feedback on the page. Suggestions have included doing a better job of linking to universities (not states or titles, like "Duke") and a better handling of the third-place games that were played until 1981. --Dantheox 09:58, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I put in links for all previous tournaments. Most are red now, but the blue ones from before 2004 offer a sample of what the pages I plan on adding look like. Barring any objections, I'd like to upload the remaining tourneys later this evening. --Dantheox 23:32, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect Seeding

On the site, it has this seeding:

1v16, 8v9

2v15, 7v10

3v14, 6v11

4v13, 5v12

Looking a bracket, that's not nessisarily the case. It should be:

1v16, 8v9

4v13, 5v12

3v14, 6v11

2v15, 7v10

Here's the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney06/bracket

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.57.102.40 (talk • contribs).

What page, paragraph, etc are you refering too? The only place where I can find a list in that order is the paragraph where it explains the "pod system" for the first two rounds (which seems appropriate there). Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:34, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Here's what the article says:

"In the pod system, each of the eight first- and second-round sites has two "pods", where a pod is a group of four teams who play each other. A host site's pods may be from different regions, and thus the winners of each pod would advance into separate regional tournaments. The possible pods by seeding are:

1v16, 8v9 2v15, 7v10 3v14, 6v11 4v13, 5v12"

That's incorrect. the bottom should be underneath the top, and the middle 2 should be on the bottom. Haven't you seen the link? This site's incorrect, and I want it to be correct.

  • Perhaps you are not understanding the paragraph and context in question, so I have changed it a bit to be a bit more clear. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 23:04, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tournament format

This is not an error report, per se, just a suggestion to keep the content details as consistent as possible (yes, I need to get a life).

This page lists --

"In the pod system, each regional bracket is divided into four-team "pods". The possible pods by seeding are:

Pod #1: 1v16, 8v9 Pod #2: 2v15, 7v10 Pod #3: 3v14, 6v11 Pod #4: 4v13, 5v12 "

All the NCAA game box scores I've ever seen list the higher seed (favorite) as the home team, on the bottom of the box score. Couple this with the standard of listing any generic contest as "Team A vs. Team B" where A is the away team, and B the home team .... then I believe the technically correct way of listing the pod system explanation would be --

"In the pod system, each regional bracket is divided into four-team "pods". The possible pods by seeding are:

Pod #1: 16v1, 9v8 Pod #2: 15v2, 10v7 Pod #3: 14v3, 11v6 Pod #4: 13v4, 12v5 "

68.100.43.16 01:09, 26 March 2006 (UTC)PeaceGB

  • Maybe, but then again, if you look at any actual bracket diagram that has been published, the higher seed always is listed first before the lower seed. It is the bracket that the pods are based on. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 01:16, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tournament format

I'll buy that - brackets aren't box scores. If it ain't broke don't fix it. 68.100.43.16 01:35, 26 March 2006 (UTC)PeaceGB

Numerous listings in the NCAA Basketball Tournament pages have asterisks, but there is not key explaining what these asterisks mean. At one point I thought that they indicated OT games, but if that is the case in he brackets for each tournament (which seems accurate), then the use is incosistent since Duke has an asterisk beside the school name in 1999 (runner up) on this page: [[1]]

Does anyone know what this asterisk signifies?


[edit] Final Four Location Update

I noticed there are locations for future Final Four venues, however there is no mention of the agreement between Indianapolis and the NCAA that requires the Final Four to be held in Indianapolis an average of once every 5 years until 2039 (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060329/BUSINESS/603290499). I believe Indy also is the #1 contingency city if a city has to back out after being awarded the Final Four, but I am not sure as to where this information is located.

[edit] Mid-majors drought

Someone who knows the subject better than I do should handle this, but I think a mention of the failure of any schools from non-major conferences to reach the Final Four between 1979 (Penn & Indiana State) and 2006 (George Mason) is worth mentioning. It has received substantial press this week, with the non-major schools referred to as "outsiders." Example, quote referring to GMU: They are the first true outsider to crash the quartet since Penn and Indiana State both got there in 1979. | Mr. Darcy talk 17:04, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] All Conference National Title Game

With wins in the National Semifinals, LSU and Florida will have an all SEC National Championship game. Three times it has happened in NCAA History: 1976 (Indiana defeating Michigan), 1985 (Villanova defeating Georgetown), and the last time it happened was 1988 (Kansas defeating Oklahoma).

We can only hope. Let's not get ahead of ourselves though, eh? :) BMetts 22:29, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semifinalists should be added

It appears that the "Final Four" has been merged into the "NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship". What if someone is looking up the teams comprising the Final Four? I get the champion and runner-up, but no semifinalists. The NCAA produces a guide each year of the Tournament history. It is even called the Men's Final Four Records Book. Eliminating the semifinalists was a bit rash.

You can find the 2006 guide (released before the 2005-06 season) at: http://www.ncaa.org/library/records/basketball/m_final_four_records_book/2006/2006_m_final_four_record.pdf

Heathebe05 11:28, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

agree. I think this page should include the semifinalists. Venue and city can be merged into one column for the space on the page.

[edit] North Carolina's NCAA Championships

Browsing through the NCAA Championship pages and realized that North Carolina was only put down for four National Title when they had in fact won five. http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/111402aab.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bravesmannumber1 (talk • contribs) 23:23, October 23, 2006 (UTC).

Not so. Their first title, according to the site, was not an NCAA championship. They were voted by the Helms Foundation as the national champions, beating out a few other colleges for the title. This was not NCAA sponsored, and therefore, isn't relevant, interesting as it is. --NomaderTalk 06:11, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maps

Just wondering if anyone could put up some map of the teams from around the country who play Div-I basketball. the NCAA Football wikipedia site has similar maps for Div I-A, I-AA, and NAIA, which are pretty sweet. I dont know who set those up but doing that for Basketball (with all the 330-odd teams) would be cool Intrepidsfsu 14:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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