Talk:Navajo Nation

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Anyone know if there's an article on the history of the Dine people, as far as into their prehistory? --DanielCD 13:37, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Another reorganization due? 2 Pictures 3 Apache history/references 4 Recent Large Edit 5 Copyright 6 Ethnic group template

[edit] Another reorganization due?

I would like to see this page reorganized a little bit. Information should not be removed. Some examples: the information about the percentage of blood that qualifies a person to be a Navajo does not belong in the introduction. There need to be a couple of sub headings in Geography, the lone paragraph which is a redefination of Navajo in that section needs to be mored. There are other headings which might be added to encourage more additions to this page.

I believe this page on the Navajo Nation is about what I would call a "state", which is emerging as a result of the Long Walk. Generally speaking, The Nation is the "modern" political authority which exists in the area non-Navajo's call the reservation(s). Obviously the influence of this authority extends beyond this defination and attempting to seperate it from Navajo culture is not desirable.

Making more use of links is a good idea. Just my two cents worth. If I make some organizational and format changes on this page, I will try to do it all at once so if they really offend, a single revert will send a message. --Rcollman 13:23, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

The photos are nice, but there are far too many of them. How about reducing the number to those that directly illustrate something?

Deleted photo:

I think the photos are nice as well, but feel there should be some modern photos as well (if there are any that aren't copywrited). Right now it looks like the Dine is a tribe that no longer exists--especially with everything in black and white and sepia. I realize that if one reads the text, one learns otherwise, but I feel the encyclopedically speaking, a lot of people will look at the phostos/maps/illustrations of an article before they even decide whether they're going to read it or not. Kaibab 03:52, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Apache history/references

Moved anon contribution (see below) re Apache history/references to this page for discussion. Reference material is needed. Is this more appropriate to the Apache page?? WBardwin 02:40, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"In Donald Rowland's study, Sonora Frontier, Juan de Anza, the second person of that name, says that since 1715, the Apaches had been continally murdering, stealing and comminting depredations of every sort, in spite of repeated attempts at conciliation. He made 8 campaigns against them, but without success because they lived in small groups of huts and it was impossible to capture more than a handfull at a time.

They inhabited a most difficult country, and yet by means of smoke signals, could transmit information across distances very quickly. By 1735, the lands south of the Gila and northward into present day Tucson, civilization was in reverse, and the spanish haciendas, cattle ranches and the rich mines were being abandoned in fear of the savages. By 1746, even with 100 soldiers garrisoned at a nearby fort, in bands ranging from 100 to 300, Apaches (Athapaskan Indians) came to harass rancho and mission. In the decade from 1775 to 1785 the Spanish government invaded Apacheria with fire and sword, but only succeeded in killing less than 300 Indians, including women and children. Conditions continued to grow worse, even after Mexican independence in 1821. In 1846, as the U. S Army was descending the Rio Grande, news of an Indian raid against a Mexican village was brought to General Stephen W. Kearney. The Mexicans had barricaded themselves in a thick walled adobe village, while Apaches drove off all their livestock, and when cornered later on by a rescue party, the Indians began killing as many cattle and goats at time permitted, then escaped into the mountains with the more manageable horses and mules. In another of their forays, they carried away 15 or 16 the prettiest young Mexican women for wives. Sometimes humans were captured to be sold, reflected in the Treaty of Guadeloupe Hidalgo, which expressly forbade the purchase of any captives from the Indians. By 1850, the San Pedro Valley, where ranching had continued for more than a century and a half, was totally depopulated. One great ranch that had once been stocked with 40,000 cattle was completely deserted. Col. Philip St. George Cooke encounted herds of cattle that had run wild at the ruined San Bernadino Ranch near the modern city of Douglas, Arizona. He noted the great hacienda had been planned as a fortress with regular bastions, but it could not withstand the continual assault of the Indians. Lt. Wm. H. Emory in his "Military Reconnoissance" notes that a savage and uncivilized tribe, armed with bow and lance, is holding three fertile and once-flourishing states: Chihuahua, Sonora and Durango. John Bartlett, of the U. S. Boundary Survey Commission, in 1851, observed that near the house ruins among the dying orchards, peaches still ripened in abundance. The peach trees in Canyon de Chelly in Navajo land were undoubtedly brought there from these areas, suggesting a connection between the Apaches of southern Arizona and New Mexico to the Navajos of northern Arizona and New Mexico."

[edit] Recent Large Edit

That was quite a sequence of edits, with a lot of good information. However, I have a few suggestions for future edits. You removed several chunks of information without an explanation in the edit summary or on the talk page. I will not disturb your material but I will restore most of the information removed. If you have any reason why that information is inaccurate or inappropriate, please discuss it on the talk page before deleting again. It may be more appropriate, with the tone of your information oriented toward the Nation itself, to think about creating an article for the history of the Navajo people, perhaps titled Navajo (people).

It is also appropriate to list your sources on extensive edits, and indicate if any material is quoted from them. Wiki has strict rules on copyright issues. And all articles should have appropriate "links" to other articles in the Wiki to help the reader move around the system. It is customary to link only the first reference to a word or term in each article. Please use the third item in the tool bar above to create these links. Hope to see you on other sites. Look forward to working with you. WBardwin 01:02, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I created a page called Navajo people because I VERY much agree that the tone of this article is very much directed at the Navajo Nation. Personally, I was frustrated to not find the sort of information on the Navajo people in this Navajo Nation article. It's quite possible that someone would be discouraged from writing about (unique aspects of) the Navajo people's culture and structure in an article specifically about the Nation, besides the fact that not everything that goes on in a certain nation is really representative of the uniqueness of that ethnic culture. I mean, I created the Navajo people page to try to encourage people to add relevant information on the Navajo People. Specifically, I was interested in the matriarchal aspects of the Navajo people, but this sort of information was not on the Navajo Nation page (nor does it really seem relevant to a page about the Navajo Nation). Robotbeat 22:13, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Although my comment above dealt with material that ended up being a copyvio (see below), I still like the idea of a Navajo People article. The modern Navajo Nation is really a government organization with strong cultural overtones. Wiki articles on other NAmerican tribes mention very little about their current tribal government. I would advocate moving much of the history section in this article to Navajo People and devote that article to origin, history, religion and culture. WBardwin 02:21, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't like the merge either -- here is my recent note to JenGod. I'll work toward two articles when I have a little more time. Does everyone agree with the content I've defined below? WBardwin 02:46, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I noticed that you merged the two articles. A couple of regular editors disagree. Please see the discussion on the talk page of Navajo Nation. We believe that Navajo Nation should be used as an article for the Navajo governmental agency that manages the tribes reservation and resources and that Navajo People or Navajo should be used to describe the history, culture and present day characteristics of this people. I will not have time to revert and shuffle the articles for a couple of days. If you have objections or comments, please leave a note on the discussion page. WBardwin 00:21, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

copied cultural and historical information to Navajo people to start the distinction. That information in this article should probably just be summarized -- will try and work on that next week. It would be particularly important to sort our long list of references to the appropriate article. Would everyone take a look and see what belongs in which group? Thanks. WBardwin 19:53, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright

I'm afraid that the article appears to be a copyright violation, much of it lifted from here. The source page is clearly labelled: "© 2005 Navajo Nation Washington Office. All rights reserved." Editrs need to go back in the history to the last non-copyvio version, and transfer it to Navajo Nation/Temp; then, when this article has been checked and (I suspect) deleted, the old version can be moved back to its proper place.

Sorry about this; we can't just revert, as the copyright violation would still be in the History, and Wikipedia would still be liable. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 06:30, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

The instructions on the copyvio page say otherwise:

That said revert to July 27 version. Vsmith 20:41, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Done. Vsmith 21:01, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ethnic group template

The ethnic group template should IMHO be removed from this article, since it deals with a political entity rather than an ethnicity -- cf Navajo people -- Himasaram 03:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)