User talk:Natalinasmpf/archive 1

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"For without friends no one would choose to live, though he had all other goods...for what is the use of such prosperity without the opportunity of beneficence?" — Nicomachean Ethics, Book VIII, ch. 1

Welcome the units of my virtual personal high-rise Housing and Development Board building - or more commonly, my archived talk pages.

To view other archives, see the main archive list.

Contents

[edit] Archive 1

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Hope you like it here, and stick around.

Here are some tips to help you get started:

Good luck!

[[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]]

P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).


[edit] Hello Nat

Hello, fellow HG´er! Greetings Doidimais Brasil 18:03, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC).

Hi.

[edit] Wikipedia:Wikipedians/Singapore

I think you may be interested in knowing about the above-mentioned page, if you haven't done so yet. :) - Mailer Diablo 16:10, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I assume I'm free to add my name in, correct? :) -- Natalinasmpf 20:21, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:SGpedians' notice board

Our very own notice board is up! Do try to look through and contribute. ;)--Huaiwei 08:48, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Military History of the Soviet Union

I fail to see how Somalia shows American crimes against humanity. In fact, Somalia was an instance in which America tried to end crimes against humanity. GreatGatsby

My percetion was that the US military was responsible for much of the collateral damage done to civilians, when this could have been avoided, and furthermore, instead of staying neutral and disinterested from the entanglement, while intervening, they got themselves more factionalised and entangled, and biased, instead. -- Natalinasmpf 23:11, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

How would the Americans kill civilians? They were under attack from the start of the engagement. And there were very few true civilians in the Mogadishu disaster, most were armed and attacking the strike force. America was already against the warlords in Somalia, it was just a matter of acting or not. There was no increased biased or factionalization. America wanted to wrong a right and got a handful of dead soldiers for their troubles. GreatGatsby

[edit] It's over

Hello, Natalina. Just wanted to let you know your minion has been dealt with.

Have a nice day. =] --Kaonashi 01:03, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Was it? :{ Doesn't appear so. -- Natalinasmpf 01:26, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, my bad. I was hasty. Didn't think he'd come back again and again.

But it'll be sorted out in a way or another.--Kaonashi 01:32, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)


I've protected the pages for now... Fire Star 01:37, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hi Natalinasmpf

Are you from RGS?

°)


[edit] History of Malaysia

Your sentence on Singapore's departure from Malaysia is very badly phrased, and also rather tendentious. Since you are a 14yo Singapore Communist (I hope your government doesn't read your User page), I guess that is not surprising. I will do some research on what actually happened and rewrite that paragraph later. Adam 03:07, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Is it? I'm only trying to be NPOV. To standardise the information, and not to clutter up the pages, I've written the bulk of the info in PAP-UMNO relations - it is kind of crude at the moment, I will admit, but that's only because I am afraid to go into too much detail since the issue is being disputed. The event is often termed as an expulsion and against our will in our textbooks. But of course, our textbooks aren't 100% politically reliable for obvious reasons concerning authoritarianism. My general impression is that it wasn't Singapore's choice to leave Malaysia - it was the Federal Government's decision, hence an expulsion. However, since you dispute this, I've noted this as a "ceasing of Federal ties" - meaning that the Federal Government, excluded Singapore because they could, and no longer treated it as a state after two years of ideological conflict. -- Natalinasmpf 03:15, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gay rights in Singapore

I appreciate your comments about being NPOV in the short section about the situation of gay rights in Singapore. Can you be specific about what information I included that you believe to be untrue? Here is what I object to in the current edit:

1. "generally ostracized" is not the same as "illegal" which should be stated in the article, given the life imprisonment penalty in the penal code for gay sexual relations. The article currently makes Singapore sound somewhat tolerant. I suggest being more truthful about the actual situation.

2. The fact that the government is willing to tolerate some gays in positions in the government is unnecessary information, given that the same government strictly maintains illegality.

3. The paragraph is clearly about homosexuals, not anyone else with an alternative lifestyle. Let's just say "gay" since that's obviously the topic. I am not sure who else we would be referring to.

4. The prevention of gay rights groups from forming in Singapore by the Societies Act limits internal public debate. I object to the current sentence in the article that refers to "much debate" both inside and outside of Singapore. In Singapore, debate is not condoned on this issue, and ST articles always toe the government line.

If you think my edit was unnecessarily long, then cutting it shorter is ok, but I prefer to make sure the article conveys the fact that gays/lesbians do suffer legal discriminition and have been imprisoned/caned for what in many other countries is perfectly normal behavior. It is a vital piece of information about the ways these people (gays/lesbians) are viewed that should be helpful to foreigners learning about the country. Please let me know your thoughts

Xa Qua

Xaqua 01:54, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)


Sorry, I did not notice the page had been censored a few edits before I came in. I should have noticed. I re-added the detail...I have added prosecution and conviction, I believe this is a sufficient phrase. Detail should go into Culture of Singapore, feel free to add as much detail as you like to the sub-pages, because the Singapore article is really about Singapore at a glance, and hence most of the detail should be located in another article. (That is the whole purpose of being a wiki).
2. Yes, I have deleted that irrelevant piece of information. Prosecuted a large portion could easily make that info redundant, so I removed it as you wished.
3. "Gay" is sort of a colloquial term, so I prefer to use the scientific term. Well lets make it standard as it will fit better, just like we use centimetres in science as opposed to inches.
4. Info was re-added back in.
Suppression of debate and groups is not only suffered by homosexuals / or only because Singapore is conservative. Being a political radical and a pro-democracy advocate myself, I am also worried about the extent of political suppression. I did not realise some of the detail had been removed earlier (I thought I was restoring the version of that section I saw yesterday, yikes). I shall concede most of your additions are justified, just that a lot of information is really irrelevant for the main page (as in, just as adding nasi lemak and every other dish in the world to make the food article 5 MB long isn't really needed, hence kept in separate articles)....and the gay rights group should be placed in a separate article about the situation of gay rights in Singapore, not in the main country articles, (Culture of Singapore doesn't suit this case because that is also still a broad article)....
I encourage this practice of division of such detail, case in point: PAP-UMNO relations which I made a separate article rather than putting all the detail in the History of Singapore and History of Malaysia pages as it would be took awkard for organisation, not needed, lack of flow. Also it ensured some sense of uniformity because it would be redundant to repeat the detail in two articles and would have better flow if it was a separate article other articles could link too. Hence this should be applied to your situation too (and maybe for situations with Singapore's neighbours), or even be a subdivision of articles concerning (or in the category) political suppression in Singapore. -- Natalinasmpf 02:08, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)


Thanks -- I'm happy with the version after you changed it again.
-- Xaqua 16:00, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Sorry for me butting in, but with regards to the above issue, a page called Homosexuality in Singapore might be the best solution, instead of trying to lump too much detail into general pages. In addition, I have also nominated this page Singapore gay movement POV problems, as well as possibly being a case of copryright infringement.--Huaiwei 16:48, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Definitely, the page Singapore gay movement needs work. I didn't actually know such a page existed until now. I'd volunteer to help but unfortunately I don't know much about the history of gay rights in Singapore. I do not think the few lines pertaining to gay rights should be eliminated from the main Singapore page though, because they fit in well with other issues under culture which include how different groups are treated and looked at within Singapore - different religions, ethnicities, genders, and sexual orientations. Moreover, Singapore's distinction of being the only developed country in the world to allow legal prosecution of gays and lesbians (and at the same time prevent rights movements) is quite unique and deserves mention.
-- Xaqua 22:04, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have moved the Singapore gay movement article into Homosexuality in Singapore, with a redirect for the former title. I feel it is more appropriate, until the movement becomes quite major. I don't think it is a movement just yet, come on, Singapore doesn't even have a democracy movement either, despite the fact that around 5-15% of the population votes for the SDP. -- Natalinasmpf 23:15, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Please refer to my comment in that talk page. I do not feel the move is a good idea.--Huaiwei 23:40, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Page cleanup

I would just like to inform you, that while no one can stop you from deleting your talk page, it can also be used to charge against you for deleting evidence when the need arises, which will be greatly against your favour should anyone decide to take action. I would strongly advise you to restore those comments for your own sake.--Huaiwei 23:12, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Don't do that. That just encourages him. Dysprosia

[edit] missing bracket

re the missing bracket. I didn't. There is a technical flaw on wikipedia in recent days that is removing brackets from many users. There is nothing that users are doing to cause it. It has been raised on the technical pages. They thought they had fixed it. Obviously not fully. Thanks for telling me. Unfortunately there is however nothing I can do about it. When I leave a msg it is OK; my name has the correct commands and brackets in place. Somehow later things change. Hopefully the technical guys can fix it soon. FearÉIREANN 22:34, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Chess Game 1?

How bout it 1 mistake for you 1 mistake for me? Least you got to revert yours while I went to Lunch, lol :-)?


Granted. I normally would object in real life (because I have revealed my intentions at this point), whereas in my previous revert I did not, but since this is Wikipedia and there's a certain spirit to it, I will allow an undo. :-) -- Natalinasmpf 23:35, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome

Nice summary, and welcome to the climate article mess. — Cortonin | Talk 22:38, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Legal threats

Please review Wikipedia:No legal threats, which is an official policy stating that users should not make legal threats against other users. This message is regarding this post on User talk:Natalina smpf. Thanks. -Frazzydee|✍ 23:30, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

But he wasn't a legitimate user - he was a vandal. Doesn't Wikipedia adopt legal stances against vandals? -- Natalinasmpf 23:59, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • To my knowledge, no. However, there is a rule saying that users are not allowed to pick names that are offensive or are confusing with/impersonating other users (like the Jimbo Wales vandal). Zscout370 00:20, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    Specifically, as per Wikipedia:Blocking_policy#Impersonation, impersonation is grounds for an indefinite block, and "Natalina smpf" has in fact already been blocked within half an hour of their first edit. -- 04:46, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    The problem is that the impersonating username is still visible in the article histories, and therefore in engines like google. -- Natalinasmpf 04:48, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    I dont believe Google stores history pages in their search engine. -- 04:51, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • Natalinasmpf, in the meantime, you may want to read Wikipedia:Username#Inappropriate usernames and consider listing Natalina smpf on RFC. I do agree that this person's user name is deliberately confusing. Zzyzx11 | Talk 00:28, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
      • I find it interesting how a 14-year-old from Singapore will be able to sue a Wikipedia "vandal" from another country, one that will not be named, for 2 million dollars, when at the same time, threating to do illegal activity (DDOS attack) against this vandal. 207.248.240.118 20:45, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
        • The vandal did illegal activity (interfering deliberately, in an organised, focussed manner with a website run at non-insignificant cost), so hence gives up his own rights not to have his own computer dealt with justice. Quid pro quo. Therefore its not illegal to threaten him, since he's a vandal himself. And his IP is so prominently displayed at the vandalism notices, a quick trace is all that's needed. Long term vandals don't have any legal internet rights against his own computer being defaced because why should a vandal who does vandalism himself, be protected from vandalism? Its only reciprocity. Plus, its only one vandal - he can suffer (since he did wrong anyway), rather than have the entire Wikipedia project which 8 million users access every month, (and growing) suffer, who probably haven't done anything wrong to warrant a "Wikipedia is Communism" caption printed on every page. -- Natalinasmpf 20:51, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The vandal has now been placed at "Long Term Alerts," so if he/she decides to spam that stuff again, he/she will be banned without question. Zscout370 00:09, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Again, will you please stop making legal threats? Vandal or no, it's against the rules here. If you are planning to pursue legal action against a Wikipedia user, please stop using Wikipedia. A word of advice, it's utterly pointless to argue with vandals. Threatening to sue them only makes you look silly. Furthermore the IP which you believe is the vandal's, is simply an open proxy in Mexico. I've blocked it indefinitely. Rhobite 05:13, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

Since when were vandals "Wikipedia users"? I thought they were the opposite? Wikipedia ABusers? I mean, look at the discussion on the Sollog vandalism, even they advocate legal action, which has basis (interfering deliberately, in an organised, focussed manner with a website run at non-insignificant cost). No, I wasn't really planning to sue, but I just felt like hollering at a vandal anyway, but wouldn't Wikipedia successfully win the lawsuit, and gain money for its servers in the process? We can make the vandal pay maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars, and it would set a powerful deterrent against vandalism henceforth. Newbie experiments/contributions won't be affected, because they don't have the ill will in the first place, which this vandal has. The proxy can be contacted, then the ISP traced, then right to the physical mailbox address, on which the court can then issue a subpoena. If the RIAA can say, sue poor college students for 250,000 dollars for illegal online activity like copyrighted file sharing, can't Wikipedia sue possibly rich petit bourgeois delinquent vandal snobs who have nothing else better to do? -- Natalinasmpf 05:16, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It isn't a user's place to initiate legal action on Wikipedia's behalf. In order to win a court case, one needs to demonstrate significant damages in court. Volunteer labor to clean up vandalism probably isn't enough. In my opinion Wikipedia doesn't have a case against most vandals, and it isn't worth pursuing. But anyway, that decision isn't up to you or me. I think it's improper for users to threaten legal action, even against vandals. As for scaring people, legal threats are pretty much useless. It is so rare for someone to actually follow through with Internet legal threats, that they are pretty much laughed at. Legal threats are empty threats - people who really intend to file a lawsuit don't holler about it on the Internet. Rhobite 05:30, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Zscout's PfD

Hi, Natalinasmpf. Just wanted to make sure you know that I don't actually want to delete Zscout370. We're just being silly—he added the deletion notice himself (with the edit summary of "giggle, giggle, giggle"), and "forged" the nomination from "User:Abcdef". (Also note where the "Guide to People for Deletion" links). Cheers! — Knowledge Seeker দ 04:30, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ah, I just realised that a few minutes after I posted, but kept the comment just for fun. :-) Maybe to make it ironical or something, hey, makes it a more convincing joke. -- Natalinasmpf 04:38, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Singapore pledge

your singapore pledge 'spelling' is wrong. it's 'yan yu, zong jiao' not 'yuan yu, zhong jiao'. shame to you for being corrected by a non-singapore citizen. H.Mib 03:25, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I did that late at night and wasn't thinking. I messed up at a Wikipedia Chess game I was playing too. I was half asleep while I surfed Wikipedia. Maybe that's the first sign of wikiholicism. -- Natalinasmpf 09:27, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Why don't you use the Chinese characters themselves? Better than pinyin, don't you think? H.Mib 02:57, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I don't know how to insert them into Wikipedia. I don't have any Chinese writing software, as well. Well I could think of searching for one compatible with Linux, but my key mapping in X is only good for well, characters I need to write French or German, not Chinese. So hence. -- Natalinasmpf 02:59, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Haha, done. Windoze can be useful sometimes. BTW, don't you think that an anarcho-communist using such blatant fascist government propaganda is a tad ironic? H.Mib 03:33, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Much thanks. I heard of some GPL Pinyin to character software, but I forgot where it was, I'll recheck sourceforge and hunt for it one of these days. Anyhow, I don't think it ironic because its mainly for fondness/nostalgia, plus the egalitarian elements (regardless of race, language or religion, to built a democratic society, after all, anarchy can be seen as a decentralised direct democracy), plus its mainly attachment to culture, not the political loyalty to the government. I've reiterated and sung national pledges and anthems for probably around years straight now, so hmm. -- Natalinasmpf 03:40, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
You can check out http://sourceforge.net/projects/xsim/ It's dead, though. Interesting bit about 'nostalgia'. It's like Hitler saying 'We love peace', you know it to be untrue, just because of the person saying it. In this case Fuhrer Lee. Still fascist propaganda nevertheless. :) Very interesting political viewpoint you have... for someone from Singapore. Is there an email address/MSN I can contact you with? I'm intrigued... :p

[edit] Importance of schools on Wikipedia

I just read what you wrote on the Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Clover Park High School bulletin board and wanted to share with you that I couldn't possibly agree more. There are a lot of great things Wikipedia has to offer, and informational school articles are just one of them. If you'd like to see what other schools are being deleted and want to help improve the articles, check out the User:GRider/Schoolwatch BBS some time. Tallyman 23:41, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Thanks for your welcome note, I'm still exploring this weird wiki-world (it really works!?) Hoping to find a niche. Greatly appreciate your edits, learning alot from them already, so keep doing it. Cheers! Vsion 07:04, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Government pages as public domain?

Greetings,

In the description for Image:Mrtlrt_system_map.gif you assert that the content of Singapore government pages are in the public domain. Can you provide a source for this? Government material being PD is generally limited to the United States, and the LTA Conditions of Access page in fact explicitly forbids any sort of reuse without written permission. Jpatokal 16:12, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Generally because its on government posters available to the public, I could take a photograph of the system map if I wanted to, and we're not using it for commercial purposes...Plus, its not like there's much "creative work", or effort or interests damaged by reproducing the system map, which is the common criteria for a copyright. I for one, don't see, "copyright Singapore LTA" on that image. Furthermore, its not creative work because I can easily duplicate it myself in a different form with my own colours and lines and dots and my own typing. Its just plain tedious, that's all, nothing creative, hence "ineligible for copyright" as well. -- Natalinasmpf 18:44, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

The image clearly qualifies for fair use or fair dealing. Its creation is for disseminating information. In fact, should be: "encouraged to use". The LTA's all-encompassing ("everything under the sky") claim serves to protect against abuse, manipulation and commercial exploit, etc., but does not override fair-use for research and education. This is my two-cents and I'm not a lawyer. Vsion 20:39, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes, and my other point is that international law overrides Singapore law, especially since Wikipedia is stationed in Florida. Besides, international law wouldn't recognise the map as a creative work and therefore ineligible for copyright. And I'm sure there's a "fair use" clause in Singapore as well - I took a look at a notice posted at my school one day, and although it was being applied on reproduction of materials for educational materials and granting permission for copying copyrighted materials for that, I'm sure since Wikipedia is an educational source... -- Natalinasmpf 21:18, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

International law may supercede Singapore law but I don't think it would apply since the picture is IP of the Singapore government. The map is from them so it's their IP, but if you were to make your own map I'm sure they wouldn't have anything to say, kinda like taking your own picture as opposed to using pictures others took. -Hmib 00:06, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
I am contesting whether it is IP or not because it is not a work that requires much creativity or thought. It is not commercially risked by it being duplicated, as well. Furthermore, should that fail, we can always introduce the fair use clause, which as I explained, does exist. -- Natalinasmpf 00:35, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
In Fascism the government shoots you and take your cows. :D Although the map itself does not require much work, the actual MRT system is indeed the property of the SG government. Like I said you can just do the map yourself to be safe. It'll only take 10 minutes... And shouldn't you be in school? -Hmib 01:05, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
MC. Legitimate excuse, I have this splitting stomach ache. Anyhow, I'm only using it out of convenience, because, of course the system is the property of the government, but the information surrounding it, not necessarily. I will get a replacement map soon, but I contest that it should be removed for the time being, because the case for copyright violation isn't particularly strong. -- Natalinasmpf 01:13, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Augusto Pinochet

Chilean coup of 1973 has a good timeline of the events that led to Allende's overthrow. Gazpacho 00:29, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Amazing work on the Go board images

It has been fun playing with the templates and images with you this evening :) I asked on the talk page about the program you used to make them and such but hey ill ask again here. Also was it difficult getting them to line up or was that automatic as long as they are the exact same dimensions? Dalf | Talk 07:23, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

I was looking through the articles here on go and I looked on KGS and it looks liek the common convention is for the coordinates to start in the lower left corner so I have modified the main template to reflect that. I will do the others later. Dalf | Talk 08:23, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Go

I have to ask, how long have you been playing go? Because..... how should I say this gently.... that's not a very.... ehmmm.... common starting move :P Gkhan 22:53, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

Several years, actually. It may not be common, but its nothing foolish, I assume. ;-) -- Natalinasmpf 22:57, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
I hope you didn't take offence because I certainly meant none. It's just that in the beggining it's all about staking out a claim, area (called moyo) that is surrounded by your pieces and this is easiest done in the corners and walls. But however, I just wanted to say that I was looking forward to a private game between just to players, and that playing in the sandbox makes it a kind of a collaborative venture. Is it ok if we branch our game at my last move and move it to User:Gkhan/Go? Gkhan 18:35, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
Go ahead, but leave an entry (or specify you want it to be private) as (SGO1-A), that way I can integrate it into the records when we are complete. -- Natalinasmpf 22:46, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
Ahh, there we go, sorry it took some time, I just forgot. It's your move at User:Gkhan/Go. (BTW, was there anything else I was supposed to do?) Gkhan 21:35, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
Not really, I just assigned an ID to it, so observation/standardisation can occur. Yeah, its proceeding smoothly. -- Natalinasmpf 23:52, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New chess game

Could you please set me up a new game of chess in the Sandbox/chess? Thanks. --Lst27 (talk) 21:03, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Go ahead, anyone can do that, its colloborative ;-). Unless you're not sure how to? -- Natalinasmpf 08:39, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure how to. I apologize for not knowing it. --Lst27 (talk) 19:39, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
LOL, there's nothing to be apologetic about for not knowing things... how many of us know everything, eh? -Hmib 22:30, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
No no, no need to apologise, Lst27. I wasn't sure if you meant whether you meant knowledge of how to, or permission.

Here, there are some instructions on the page, but I shall repost them: copy off a new section from one of the pages, but reset the boards and notation areas.

A reset board looks like this, this is the normal chess position:

{| style="float: right; margin-right: 1em;"
| {{Template:Chess position|<!--
 8 -->rd|nd|bd|qd|kd|bd|nd|rd|<!--
 7 -->pd|pd|pd|pd|pd|pd|pd|pd|<!--
 6 -->  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |<!--
 5 -->  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |<!--
 4 -->  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |<!--
 3 -->  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |<!--
 2 -->pl|pl|pl|pl|pl|pl|pl|pl|<!--
 1 -->rl|nl|bl|ql|kl|bl|nl|rl|30}}
 <!-- a  b  c  d  e  f  g  h   -->
|}

As you can see, you can tell which is the pawn, king, etc. Then make your move by cut and paste from one side (and filling the empty square with two spaces for alignment) into the square its supposed to be, then removing spaces as needed for alignment. I really should write a manual for this. -- Natalinasmpf 01:36, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. --Lst27 (talk) 13:55, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nice work on the AoW article!

Nice to see another HGer on the Wiki! And thanks for adding some more stuff to Age of Wonders - it's a bit messy ATM, but content is better than nothing. I didn't realise you'd been here so long - my first edit was 2 days after yours, and as of 11:07, 14 May 2005 (UTC), you've got about 250 more edits than I do. Thanks and many happy edits, Alphax τεχ 11:07, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Politics of Singapore

Merci, … and this is about the only French word I know, I’m afraid. Can you elaborate on the "further taxonomy" ? Are you referring to the different political forms as someone wrote in Singapore: "… Singapore to be closer to authoritarianism rather than true democracy …" I’m not sure how far this can go. In my opinion, pragmatism is probably the only feature that is consistent in LKY’s and Goh’s policies. Maybe an article/section on "Pragmatism in Singapore Politics" will be useful to discuss things like the reversal of population policies: "Stop-at-two" become "More-if-you-can"; "Gambling-ban" become "integrated-resorts", etc. About tying articles up, I have some ideas, including

  • List of policies at Goh Chok Tong (already started) and will do the same at Ah-Lee’s and Ah-Loong’s articles
  • List of issues at general elections (at least the most recent one, and also start preparing material for the next election)

Also, your suggestion on gerrymandering is good, closely related is Pork barrel politics (HDB upgrading, MRT stations along NE-line, etc). Besides politics, the Culture of Singapore can be expanded and also more interesting. I feel we might be too concerned with finding things unique to Singapore. Instead, a rojak of Chinese, Malay, Indians, Western culture (in food, arts, music, events, etc) should be okay even if they somewhat overlap with other countries’, don’t you think so? I feel that "Culture" is probably the main weakness in Singapore FA candidacy.

For taxonomy I meant more of a large scale organisation - ie. the categories and templates slowly break down from the general to the specific and each article is nicely interwoven to one another in cohesion. -- Natalinasmpf 20:57, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
Once we have enough articles and material on "culture" we can start a template on "Life in Singapore" or "Culture of Singapore", such as the one seen in Culture of Hong Kong which I think is quite good. Vsion 21:36, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
My idea is also to have templates link up to each other (references to each other in finer print) such that from Politics of Singapore you can easily access Education in Singapore, etc. but that is for the future - I just wanted to tell you my plan for the organisation of future articles so when we create them you have them in mind. ;-) -- Natalinasmpf 21:46, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
Good idea, I see what you mean... A template has a hierarchical structure, like a tree with its spreading branches. And many templates can link up with each other, much like in a tropical rainforest where branches from different trees interleave and form the canopy. And, as we are navigating through the wikipedia, it is like jumping from branches to branches, just like ... err ... monkeys?? :P Vsion 02:58, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Chess Championship

Hey,

I made my move at Wikipedia:Chess_championship/Tournament_1/Game_5. I accepted your invitation to be white, I hope you don't mind... :D

Just a couple notes--I've never played wikichess before, so if I'm doing something dreadfully wrong, please do correct me. Also, I often have severely limited internet access on weekends, so I often disappear for a day or so. I hope this isn't a problem.

Anyway, good luck. May the best man win! ;-) Jonathan Christensen 13:19, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ah!

Where the hell did the Marxism page go? Is this related to the page moving crap the vandal's been doing? Should that option perhaps be blocked, considering how rediculously complicated it's making our lives?-- Revolutionary Left | Che y Marijuana 09:00, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vote for Deletion

Hi; I'm sorry to be bothering you concerning this, but Wikipedia:Chess championship is up for a VfD. Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Chess_championship Please vote to keep this thing alive... this is so lame that I need to ask people to help out here. Linuxbeak | Desk 03:46, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] chess & go

Hi.

A few questions/points:

  1. At least on my setup, the go pieces/board are a bit hard to see. The main problem is that there isn't much contrast between white pieces and the tan board. I'm not sure what the best way to deal with this is, but here are a few ideas:
    • surround the white pieces with a thin black border to make them stand out more
    • give them a bit of texture
    • make the board darker
    • make the board and pieces textured (I like Goban's contrast and appearance, though if every square is the same, the wood texture would need to be simpler and more repetitive then that one.
  2. If you're interested, I'd be willing to make new versions of all the pieces, complete with their symbols, etc. I can script photoshop to show/hide layers and the process should be relatively painless. Let me know what you think.
  3. Look at the talk at the chess template page. It should be possible to allow for multiple length symbols in the same game, without using different images. Maybe this is what you did, but it seemed anyway that the one letter and two letter versions you have now are incompatible. It should be possible to have the system easily arbitrarily extensible, by using underscores.
  4. It seems to me that the method of writing games without using so many comment tags works better/is cleaner. For example:
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
a b c d e f g h 
{| style="float: right; margin-right: 1em;"
| {{Chess position|=

 8 |rd|nd|bd|qd|kd|bd|nd|rd|=
 7 |pd|pd|pd|pd|pd|pd|pd|pd|=
 6 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |=
 5 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |=       ---> produces --->
 4 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |=
 3 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |=
 2 |pl|pl|pl|pl|pl|pl|pl|pl|=
 1 |rl|nl|bl|ql|kl|bl|nl|rl|=
    a  b  c  d  e  f  g  h  

|30}}
|}

--jacobolus (t) 23:10, 19 May 2005 (UTC)


Ah, go ahead with the borders, but I'm warning you that there will be a lot of images to update. Also concerning the incompatability between the two invocation systems - they are completely compatible and use the same template. I just have two sets of images (one being way larger in number of images than the other, in fact) which are called in separately. I just choose two segregate between the two systems purely out of aesthetics - underscores would still not help, considering that it would make one character usage go out of alignment in the editor (not the displayed version, but I'm stressing ease of edit). It looks good right now, no problems as I see - all the work concerning duplicate images are done. -- Natalinasmpf 23:38, 19 May 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Image:Esplanade-nite view.jpg

Hi,

I was just admiring the photo Image:Esplanade-nite view.jpg that you uploaded and was considering adding it to the Commons. Unfortunately I can't read Chinese, so I couldn't verify that the image is in the public domain. Is it generally the case that works of the Singapore Tourism Board or work of the Singapore Government are public domain? And are we sure this isn't a photograph that they have licensed. Is there additional copyright discussion on the website that I can't read? -- Solipsist 11:07, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

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