Talk:Nationalist terrorism

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Nationalist terrorism was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made below the archived discussion rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was NO CONSENSUS

Nationalist Terrorism should be deleted it is a list without attribution. Unattributed label of terrorism violates NPOV rule. --Alberuni 18:04, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

  • Lost/unresolved VfD. It might be POV, but the topic is not inherently so. Keep. Cool Hand Luke 01:21, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete: The person who wrote this list was neck deep in POV. So the topic doesn't have to be POV, I agree, but fixing this article means blanking it, killing its distinctions, and then rewriting it from scratch. To me, that's the same thing as a delete. Geogre 04:12, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep and improve perhaps merge and redir to List of terrorist groups or another page related to Wars of national liberation. -- Netoholic @ 06:50, 2004 Oct 31 (UTC)
  • Clean-up. This article looks somewhat salvageable--[[User:Plato|Comrade Nick @)---^--]] 13:54, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. A strange hybrid of a dicdef and a list. The dicdef could profitably be merged into the article on terrorism, and the list *might* be able to stand on its own. I'm not sure. --Improv 17:04, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep in some form, although it does need work. —siroχo 00:07, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)

End archived discussion -- Graham ☺ | Talk 16:11, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I maintain that a great deal of respectable organizations do not consider the PLO a terrorist organization; especially considering the tough policies employed in recent years by U.S. and Israeli governments with regards to refusing to negotiate with terrorists and terrorists factions. The claim that the PLO is a terrorist organization is a POV statement that is made by members of the American and Israeli right-wings. 69.139.231.149 01:31, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Here is an interesting link: [1]. Note, the Tanzim are part of the PLO. Jayjg 01:54, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Yup. A right-wing, American military site. Very biased. 69.139.231.149 17:59, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] DFLP and Popular Front

DFLP and Popular Front do not meet the definition for nationalist terrorism. Those organisations do not seek a seperate state for Palestinians, but a secular state encompassing both Palestine and Israel, where different religions can leave in harmony together and where no religion is discriminated in favour of another (as is currently the case). This means those groups are not nationalist in the way this article defines it. Gerritholl aka Topjaklont | Talk 09:48, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

That's bullshit. Don't tell me that they're killing Jews so they can live in harmony with Jews in Israel. Bullshit. They want every Jew out of the Middle East. Gerritholl, that's the most ridiculous comment I've read on Wikipedia all year. Jewbacca 10:39, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)
Currently no religion is discriminated against in Israel. More importantly, though, on what do you base your claims about the DFLP and PFLP? Jayjg 15:16, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
That is quite simply inaccurate. Israeli citizenship law makes it next to impossible for non-Jews (even those descended from occupants of present-day Israel) to immigrate. Under Israeli law, if the spouse of a citizen is Arab and not Jewish, s/he does not obtain citizenship by virtue of marriage. One could argue either way about the validity of such laws in a Jewish state, but (valid or no) they are transparently discriminatory.

[edit] NPOV

I maintain that a great deal of respectable organizations do not consider the PLO a terrorist organization; especially considering the tough policies employed in recent years by U.S. and Israeli governments with regards to refusing to negotiate with terrorists and terrorists factions. The PLO is recognized by the U.N. and the U.S. as the voice of the Palestinian people. The claim that the PLO is a terrorist organization is a POV statement that is made by members of the American and Israeli right-wings. 69.139.231.149 18:00, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Israel and Palestine

While one could make the strong argument that the PLO does not do enough as far as attempts to make peace and halt terror activities, this does not make them a terrorist organization. They changed the charter of their organization in 1993 to erase the need for the complete removal of Israel and are officially in support of a two-state solution, of co-existance. I'm not saying we put the PLO on a peace advocacy group list, but they are NOT a terrorist organization, and are recognized by the U.S. and U.N. as the official voice of the Palestinian people, unlike other shadier groups listed in this very article. President Clinton and and President Bush even more strongly have made it a national policy not to negotiate with terrorist groups- something both Presidents, as well as the government of Israel have done with the PLO. Your instance on keeping the PLO as part of this list shows a skewed, POV perception that does not belong on an unbiased reference source such as Wikipedia. 69.139.231.149 00:29, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This point is moot as of a while ago. The list no longer claims to be authoritative vis-a-vis who is a terrorist; rather, it's a list of some groups often called terrorist. If you want, feel free to add another caveat, but the article seems packed with them. nate

[edit] Nation-state

The current statement is incorrect. The Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine does not seek a nation-state, it seeks a multinational state. The same holds for the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Either of the following changes should occur:

  • The definition should be widened to include groups seeking multinational states.
  • The groups seeking multinational states should be removed.

I did the second one and it was reverted. I will now do the first one, hoping this one does not get reverted. Gerritholl aka Topjaklont | Talk 11:06, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The language got a bit ugly, so I added a sentence saying that some arguably nationalist groups are simply trying to make a state that affords one group rights (as opposed to their own nation-state). Got rid of "nation-state" as a qualifier, too. nate

[edit] I.R.A. 1916-

Excuse me but that is a disgraceful statement. The Ira of today are not the same Ira of 1916, the ones who fought for the freedom of my country... who ever wrote that should have ahistory lesson if they are one in the same then so are The Army Of the Repuplic of Ireland and Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael....they were all started by Ex 1916/1922 I.R.A. men...

also the IRA existed before 1916 as the I.R.B amonst other things.... Owwmykneecap 03:45, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

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