Talk:Nationalist anarchism

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[edit] Merge Proposal

See discussion at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:National_anarchism#Merge_Proposal

[edit] Alternative Socialism and Black Ram

I'm a little worried that this might be construed as unreliably sourced or as original research. However, my sources are objectively 'out there' (even if they are rather hard to get hold of these days -- and for all I know, I may possess the only surviving copies of Black Ram) and I don't think simply summarising their stated positions counts as original research. Secondly, reliable and authoritative primary sources about the positions of a political movement (however obscure) are surely the published literature of the movement itself, not necessarily some academic journal of political analysis. So I have (boldly!) added this material on Alternative Socialism and Black Ram, because I think it deserves to be clarified that far-right and black nationalisms are not the only varieties of anarcho-nationalism in town.

Exact references will be inserted as soon as I dig them out of my archives. But I think the data that I have added here does make clear that there have been currents of nationalist anarchism which are not connected with either National-Anarchism or Black Anarchism and would appear to pre-date both. This is sufficient reason to maintain 'Nationalist Anarchism' as a separate article with a broader subject matter or, if they are merged, to incorporate National Anarchism as a subsection of it. 172.141.198.21 02:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I reckon the opening definition of anarcho-nationalism (and Black Ram was already using the term back in 1982) now looks well obsolete. Separatism may well characterise the newer varieties but played no declared or necessary role in the earlier ones. 172.141.198.21 03:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Not absolutely sure about the details of AS's foundation, and the autobiography on Monica Sjöö's website suggests she was not in it right at the beginning, so I will err on the side of caution and describe Paton and Sjöö simply as 'key members', although Paton was certainly a founder-member.

Both were anti-racist and probably neither would have described themselves as 'nationalist' yet the völkisch inspiration/input is undeniable and was explicitly articulated by Paton. By contrast, Black Ram was entirely at home with the idea of nationalism and used all the terms which seem to get people buzzing today: 'anarcho-nationalist', 'anarchist nationalism' and even 'National Anarchist', as well as 'völkisch anarchism' and 'folkish-anarchist'.

Despite this difference, I can say as a matter of personal experience that AS had a direct if unacknowledged influence on Black Ram, but it might be difficult to establish just from the groups' literature (and would constitute 'original research'?) so I am simply calling it a 'precursor'. 172.159.1.214 15:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)