Talk:National League Central

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[edit] 2001 Co-Division Championship

Obviously this is a source of contention so I would like to see some discussion before a change is made to the article.

  • On both the St. Louis Cardinal Page and the Houston Astros page of the Official Site of the Baseball Hall of Fame (A neutral and very credible baseball source) you see * National League Central Co- Champions 2001. and then *The Astros and Cardinals were declared co-champions of the NL Central in 2001, based on their identical regular season record. Due to the fact that the Astros edged the Cardinals in head-to-head games, 9-7, they were seeded as the division winner in the post-season, and the Cardinals were seeded as the wild-card. [1] For all practical purposes the Hall of Fame is considered the official keeper of baseball records.
  • On the St. Louis Cardinal section of Mlb.Com (the official MLB site though obviously teams do control some of the content on their team pages) as part of the 2001 Team timeline you have a note of the historical relevance of 2001 being "the first shared championship in major-league history" [2]. If Major League Baseball objected to this concept then they obviously would not allow this on the official MLB site.
  • A major League Baseball Senior Vice-President is quoted by a writer of the Toronto Sun on a baseball site, in reference to the Cardinal's Busch Stadium 2001 Co-Championship banner, "It's basically the wild card, but it's also co-champions," [3]
  • Finally in reference to the more recent AL East 2005 division championship title, Baseball's Commissioner Bud Selig was quoted by the Boston Globe as saying "If I were running the Red Sox, I would declare myself cochamps." [4] showing that even the commissioner of baseball has no problems with the declaration of Co-Championship in a division, partly because of the historical precedent of the 2001 NL Central shared title.

I think these are all compelling reasons why the relevant Wiki articles should be updated to included the historically important 2001 Co-Division Championships of the Houston Astros and St. Louis Cardinals. If there is not serious objections and compelling evidence to the contrary, I'll make the edit in a few weeks time. Agne27 17:53, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Well, yes what you say is true, there were co-champions, but I'm not sure what your contention as to the article is. Would you like St. Louis to be added along with Houston to the division champion line for 2001? What you mention is partially covered at the end of the section, but I could see where a bit more detail could be added. If this is what you would like to do I don't see anything wrong with it, although I also don't find it to be too pertinent of an issue. Blinutne 23:40, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Currently in the article Houston is listed as the sole championship with the note at the end of article more or less designating the Cardinals as solely the Wild Card. I feel the article would more accurately represent the situation by noting that the Cardinals were Co-Champions with the Astros and that the seeding of the Cardinals as Wild Card was just for post season seeding. As for being a pertinent issue, on the surface I would agree with you because co-championship is well established (especially with the HOF source). However, wait till we get some Astro fans chimming in. :p Then you'll see the contention. Agne27 03:28, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
    • I don't think this is a big deal either (That politician guy from the I-55 Series aside). I think most knowledgeable baseball would acknowledge they were co-champions and be done. The HOF considers it a done deal and we all know how much they love controversy (sarcasm intended for the Bull Durham fans). Houston should obviously be listed more prominent because they did get the Divisional seeding but then followed with St. Louis listed as Co-champions. It's probably worth it to mention the historical part too. Make it more wiki-worthy.205.157.110.11 17:38, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I suppose adding St. Louis to the champions line would be the more proper action to take, since they were technically awarded a co-championship. If this is to be done, though, it obviously has to be referenced since it is a bit uncommon, but that was probably going to happen regardles. And, actually, I am an ardent Astros fan, and Houston DID win the season series....and the championship last year. Blinutne 04:15, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Someone should find a better source than the Cardinals' home page. An official listing of division champions by MLB.com would be good. I really think that the Cardinals' website will do anything to paint themselves in the best light. The article on the Red Sox does not mention that they were co-champs in 2005. The article on the Dodgers does not mention that they were co-champs this year.Politician818 19:28, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

The Official Baseball Hall of Fame also considers 2001 to be a co-championship. Secondly, the Cardinals page is on MLB.com and nothing can be published there without their approval. Agne 05:49, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

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