Talk:National Council of La Raza

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	National Council of La Raza falls under the scope of WikiProject Mexican-Americans, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Mexican-Americans on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to Mexican-Americans as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Mexican-Americans. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Contents 1 Moved from article page 2 Bias 3 NCLR more anti-white than pro-latino 4 "Minority" Racism

[edit] Moved from article page

"Critics of La Raza have expressed concerns that La Raza seeks to empower Hispanics to the detriment of non-Hispanic white Americans, African Americans, and other minorities. They also state that they receive millions of dollars in federal funds a year that are not accounted for."

Placed in the article by User:Jmar123. When asked for a source, he cited foxnews/oreilly. (See the discussion on his/her talkpage.) The participants of Wikipedia:WikiProject Mexican-Americans/Chicanos are currently working to expand and improve Mexican-American and Chicano-related articles, so we will find the source of the claim when we re-write the article (unless someone out there beats us to it).--Rockero 23:10, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bias

Though only a stub, this article already manages to be NPOV. It is a matter of some debate whether La Raza ("The Race") seeks to "improve opportunities" or whether they are a bunch of crass racial hucksters pandering to illegal immigrants. Zuzim 17:23, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. Why not expand it and throw up some sources instead of your usual conjecture and race baiting, if you have a problem with the article? Mosquito-001 17:03, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Its name is source enough. An organization named "The National council of the White Race" would certainly induce no debate as to whether it was all boosterism or all hucksterism. In fact, even if it was exclusively dedicated to merely "improving opportunities" for white people, that would be enough to have every organization from the SPLC to the Ford Foundation move to destroy it.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.151.160.231 (talk • contribs).

I agree with the above statement about the name itself being enough to deem this organization racist. Also, doesn't any organization that seeks to empower one group based upon race make it by definition prejudice and bigoted. Not explicitly stating these things in the summary at the top makes this article not subscribe to a NPOV.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.241.16.5 (talk • contribs).

The English translation of the phrase "La Raza" as "the race" doesn't do the complexity of the Spanish-language term justice. In Spanish, "Raza" is an inclusive term that incorporates people of every ethnicity. A better translation is "the People" or "humanity". So the organization's name does not suffice to classify it as a "racist organization". Groups can only be described as racist if they are exclusionist or discriminatory, which the NCLR is not.--Rockero 22:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Rockero,

It is very interesting that your own wikipedia link does not agree with your definition of la raza; "La Raza means literally in Spanish the race. Broadly it is used to denote the people of Mexico and other peoples of Latin America." So it appears what you say is to at least to some extent incorrect. Also from The NCLR's own website they describe themselves as: "the largest national Hispanic civil rights and advocacy organization in the United States." They don't seem to use the term human rights either specifically denoting that they support Hispanic rights; as if Hispanic rights are different than the god given rights of all human beings. I would say that is a racist statement as it promotes rights based on a racial qualification which is by definition exclusionary. I understand your personal propensity to defend a position you agree with but allowing it to cloud the NPOV stance that wikipedia is supposed to support does a strong disservice to such a fine reference.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.241.16.5 (talk • contribs).

Perhaps you did not read the entire article (which is admittedly deficient), which goes on to state, "it is used to denote the mixture of those who are variously descended from the indigenous people of the Americas, the Spanish and other Europeans, Arabs, and Africans."

I must disagree with your assessment that "rights based on a racial qualification [...] is by definition exclusionary". Under the terms of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, the United States guaranteed Mexico and the Mexican inhabitants of the Mexican Cession that they would enjoy the same rights as they did under Mexico, including the rights to speak Spanish, practice Catholicism, have their property rights protected, etc. These are the "Hispanic rights" that advocacy and civil rights groups were formed to protect and enhance, as the United States did not meet its obligation under the terms of the treaty. So in one sense, said rights are "special" within the context of the United States, but frankly, these rights are the same basic human rights declared by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Furthermore, the Latino population is composed of individuals of all races and mixtures of races, which means that the identification "La Raza" is not racial at all, but cultural (i.e. a common heritage rooted in Spanish colonization of the Americas). So there is no "racial qualification" whatsoever to be a part of the NCLR.

My "personal propensity" is not "to defend a position [I] agree with", (I presume you are referring to my statement that "the organization's name does not suffice to classify it as a 'racist organization'"), but for accuracy in Wikipedia articles. Show me an act of racism committed by the NCLR. Show me some proof that the organization practices bigotry or exclusion, and I will be glad to incorporate the information into the article. But I think we know what is really going on here. The NCLR, as a large national organization, has become the target of immigration reductionists, nationalists, and other groups and individuals in the current climate of anti-Mexican and anti-immigrant sentiment brought about by the heated United States immigration debate.--Rockero 18:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

NCLR advocates political action The article as now written neglects to mention the political action activities of NCLR. From their current website ("http://www.nclr.org/content/policy/detail/1058/"): "Action Center

Join our action network and make your voice be heard.

   * Legislative Action Center
   * Sign up for Action Alerts
   * Current Issues
   * Register to Vote"

Instead of the current "opportunities for Hispanics. According to" I suggest "opportunities for Hispanics. It promotes passage of laws related to immigration. According to" --Tomday 12:53, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NCLR more anti-white than pro-latino

why is it perfectly within the boundaries of political correctness to be openly anti-white but all hell breaks loose when someone white occuses another group of racism? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.69.138.8 (talk • contribs) 6 September 2006.

Why is the NCLR anti-white? Can you name any specific activities along with a reliable source that would give you this belief? Maybe they can be included in the article.Mosquito-001 16:26, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Minority" Racism

I wonder what people would say if there was a WET (White Entertainment Television)? Or how about a "National Council of White People"? Or maybe a "Whites Unite"? Or maybe we could celebrate a "White History Month"? I can't imagine the protests, the riots, and outcries...—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.78.6.202 (talk • contribs) 15:13, 19 September 2006.

I blame Lou Dobbs for getting guys like the above to think NCLR is the root of all their problems in life. Regardless, this page is not for your daydreams and musings, it's to discuss the NCLR article and how to improve it. Mosquito-001 15:23, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

You know, unidentifed user, that if there were a "National Council of White People" a "Whites Unite" or a "White History Month" it would include participation by Latinos/Hispanics/Chicanos/La Razans in its celebrations and events. Bet you didn't think of that? It looks like you're the one who engages in "minority" racism. But as Mosquito pointed out, this page is not for our daydreames and musings, it's to discuss the NCLR article. So perhaps we could move this discussion over to your page? You do have one, right? Chicaneo 20:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)