Talk:Nancy Pelosi

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Nancy Pelosi article.
Nancy Pelosi is a former good article candidate. There are suggestions below for which areas need improvement to satisfy the good article criteria. Once the objections are addressed, the article can be renominated as a good article. If you disagree with the objections, you can seek a review.

Date of review: 19 November 2006
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Contents

[edit] You accuse me of vandalism for posting this?

Pelosi plans to continue funding the Iraq War [3] http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16057734

and has informed the country that "impeachment is off the table". http://ori.msnbc.msn.com/id/15638502/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16116357/ Pco 02:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
WP:AGF just about covers it. --Rtrev 02:54, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Random Unsigned Comment

the particular source about her keeping a ledger about political favors has routinely and repeatedly been repudiated and been proven false. this site is intended to be a sourse of facts......


In addition to the other comments, I noticed the heading "Abortion" also contains "Killing Babies," obviously the position of some who do not favor a woman's right to control her own body and reproductory functions. Delete the words following "Abortion" since this is supposed to be a neutral biography and not a political diatribe. (Thank you -- I see it has been corrected.)

==Disputing neutrality of this article==

Every thing I add is deleted without any good reason. If you want a source, just do this: [citation needed] rather than deleting the whole post. 71.135.34.207 01:19, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I can understand why you do not allow people to post what she failed to do, but the things she has done are relevant, even if contradictory. She did decide for the entire country that "impeachment is off the table" If that is not notable and relevant, than what is? I posted it, and it was deleted, even with a source. WHY??? 71.135.34.207 01:19, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


This article, unlike most of Pelosi's critics articles, is clearly not balanced. Under her quotes there is not mention of her previous support for action against Iraq:

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

There is also nothing about her earmarking policies or calls against DeLay for ethics violations far worse then her own. In fact there is no mention of how Pelosi has refused to call for any investigations of her Democratic colleagues for taking lobby contributions and travel expenses on the House dime. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by unknown (talk • contribs).

I agree. I added POV tags to article. Durbinmj 00:35, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I strongly disagree. I think this article is fairly nuetral. Of course, lets leave the tag on but please explain. Jasper23 20:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


Even before the Democratic Party won a Majority of seats in the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi announced that "impeachment is off the table", [4]http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1350.shtml as if it were solely up to her. This is profound and is something that no Congressional Representative has ever had the audacity to determine by themselves. Pco 00:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

If you don't let the info above be included, then the article is not neutral. She said it, it's notable. Pco 00:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Should I remove the pov tag? Could someone explain why this article is POV. Jasper23 17:15, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
I removed one of the tags as per wiki policy. If the other tag is not explained then it will be removed also. You cant just leave a tag on a page and not discuss why. That is what the tag is there for. The comment you posted under is very old and in itself does not justify a pov tag. Please explain. Jasper23 17:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
the iraq quote comes from 1998. we didn't go to war in 1998. it's absurd to allege that the article is imbalanced because it doesn't mention a single (arguably irrelevant) quote from the late 90's. ~~
As for you question I hope this helps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:POV_check Can you please explain why this page is pov. Thnaks Jasper23 22:35, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe the article is POV because it is missing large milestones of Pelosi's record that I think should be included in the article to define the Senator that she has become. About the only thing mentioned in her record section is the opposition to the Iraq war and how conservatives refer to her. I haven't been involved with this article until very recently so I don't know if this section has been gutted or if it has just been neglected but it certainly needs work.

I apologize for the use of both POV tags. My understanding is that the POV tag was for discussion and the POV check tag should be added if the discussion wasn't occurring or it wasn't progressing. I knew whoever started this talk section had started it some time ago and there was no discussion after that so that's why I went ahead and added the POV check tag. After you commented I assumed the originator of this section of the talk page was going to justify why they added the POV tag but with all of the unsigned comments here it's difficult to find who did it and see if they're still interested in discussing the issue. I also did not notice that you had asked me specifically for an explaination so I dropped the ball as well. I am certainly up for discussion on how it needs to be worked on, so I guess between you and I that justifies the POV tag but not the POV check tag right? Durbinmj 22:58, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Well I think one tag is sufficient as it is. I was just worried that it was a hit and run POV tagging because you didn't explain why you left the tag and the comment is a couple of months old. I agree that the article is very basic and needs more of an encyclopedic feel. If you think the article needs more content go ahead and put some in. Jasper23 03:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Should I remove the tag? Jasper23 06:11, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I would say no. The "Record" section definitely has POV problems even though some facts are cited it seems that there are in between statements between them that need a rewrite. Rtrev 06:20, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I am working on a new Record section. I had a busy week, but should get it done this weekend. I'll post it here a then once we hash out any of my mistakes and oversights and get it into the article I would be all for removing the neutrality tag unless someone else has more objections. Durbinmj 19:04, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Screed

Something needs to be added on the GOP's hypocritical criticism of Pelosi when Tom DeLay has done things much worse. For example, Republicans take more lobbyist trips than Democrats.

Can somebody please delete the garbage vandalism which was added to this site:

"Pelosi is viewed by mainstream America as perhaps the most rabid, and dangerous, liberal democrat in Congress. Pelosi is fortunate to have made her run for office in California, as it is unlikely she could have been elected in any other state, Massachusetts notwithstanding. Pelosi is the type of goverment official that causes the average American to distrust the government entirely."


Why do people make statements like the above?

First, everyone should recognize there are legitimate reasons for congresspersons taking funded trips...

What we as citizens need to keep an eye on is:

  1. Are family members always going? Are these boon-doggles?
  2. Who did the lobbying? Do they represent the interests of the congressman’s constiuency?
  3. What were the results of the trip? Policy changes, etc.

Yes, Democrats have taken more trips than Republicans, but lets look at the REASON they were taken.

Nancy Pelosi, for instance... You can find a list of her travels here: [1].

You can find Tom Delay’s trips here: [2].

What bothers me is a trip like Delay's to the Northern Mariana Islands ... and his subsequent "block" of Alaska Senator Frank Murkowski bill (passed unanimously in the Senate] to reign in sweat shop labor practices in that US Territory.

(EDIT: by Ryan Marquis) First of all, there's not a sweat shop labor practice in Alaska, and second of all, Alaska is a STATE, not a US Territory. That should be the issue...

There is a sweat shop labor practice in Northern Mariana Islands, which is not a state, but a US Territory.

Are people that politically biased that decency and reason mean LESS than political affiliation?

--Earnric 14:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Not just yeah,HELL yeah. "Party before People or Planet!", that's the American Political Way! :( -- Some random jerk

[edit] For or against Iraq war?

I just changed the Nancy Pelosi article back to my edit to reflect the facts. Nancy Pelosi DID, in fact, vote against the Iraq War resolution and here is the proof:

[3]

Elvey is incorrect and I am not lazy as he said I was.

Sorry. Still, the issue is unresolved. ...she voted for the Authorization for Use of Military Force against those responsible for 9/11. [4] But, that was a vote "To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States". Since Iraq had very little to no responsibility for the attacks, it's probably fair to say she did NOT support the second US invasion of Iraq. I'm confused. I've no idea which is the definitive vote. Where's the text, etc of the bill she voted AGAINST? The text of the bill she voted FOR is available via the link I provided. -Elvey 23:31, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

The issue is not unresolved, Elvey. The link you provided me was a vote to go after the Taliban in Afghanistan. She DID vote for that, yet that is a distinctly diffferent vote from the Iraq War resolution. The military force authorization against the Taliban was from end of 2001, and the Iraq War resolution was from October 2002. The vote for the Taliban resolution was 420 ayes to 1 nay, while the Iraq war resolution was much more contentious.

Your apology was very weak considering you chastised me on this public message board. I have a Ph.D in political science and you should not be insulting my intelligence nor my work effort.

Sorry, I stand corrected and shouldn't have called you lazy; the votes are distinct, as you finally explained, above, such that I could verify it. Still, you shouldn't make 'Appeal to to Authority' claims! And your claim that I insulted your intelligence is false. We both make mistakes, it seems. :)

"Like most House Democrats, Pelosi opposed the resolution authorizing Bush to use military force against Iraq, and has acknowledged Saddam Hussein's WMD program. However, she has begun strongly criticizing the war effort since then, and has introduced an amendment to the FY 2006 Defense Appropriations bill calling on Bush to specify a strategy for success in Iraq, as well as a timetable for a safe withdrawal of American troops."

In that context, "However" makes no sense because the two statements are in no way conflicting.

I agree, the "however" threw me off, I think we should definately change the however to read... "WMD program. She has also begun..." Qrk 00:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


Has she really acknowledged Hussein's WMD program? Is there a source for this? Was there really a WMD program for her to acknowledge? I don't know much about her, but this seems kind of unlikely. Edmundssteven 17:41, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Nancy Pelosi > December 16, 1998 "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology, which is a threat to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." [5]
October 10, 2002 "Yes, he has chemical weapons. Yes, he has biological weapons. He is trying to get nuclear weapons." [6]
Durbinmj 19:02, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


I'd seen the quotes from before the war, but the article makes it sound like that is her current view. I think a more clear sentence would be something like: "Like most House Democrats, Pelosi opposed the resolution authorizing President Bush to use military force against Iraq, but had stated belief in the existence of Saddam Hussein's WMD program". Also, in the same way it would not be appropriate to write, "Mel Gibson has acknowledged that the Jews have caused all wars", I don't think the word "acknowledged" should be used here concerning a statement that has since been disputed, if not disconfimed.Edmundssteven 17:05, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

The above writer seems to think that Hussein never had WMD. He USED chemical weapons on the Iranians and against his own countrymen (the Kurds.) There is little to dispute this.

I could go for the sentence saying she opposed the war but believed there were WMD's in Iraq. Durbinmj 23:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quote note

I touched up the credit for the quote:

"That's why they (the Bush administration) had to make up that story about weapons of mass destruction. Because that was the only thing that would sell to the American people, and that wasn't true."

And it's been further touched up. Originally said "falsely accused" Bush of lying. Besides the yellowcake forgery, Wiki doesn't like POV. Staxringold 03:49, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] WMD/Uranium

It's not a POV, it's fact:

"In a secret operation on June 23, 2004, U.S. forces seized 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium—the kind used to make fuel for atomic bombs—in a nuclear facility in Iraq, according to BBC News. The BBC has been consistently critical of Bush and the Iraq war. U.S. Department of Energy experts also removed 1,000 radioactive materials in “powdered form, which is easily dispersed,” said Bryan Wilkes, an Energy Department spokesman. The material would have been ideal for a radioactive dirty bomb. Then energy secretary Spencer Abraham hailed the operation as “a major achievement.” Polish general Marek Dukaczewski, Poland’s military intelligence chief, revealed that troops in the Polish-patrolled sector of Iraq had received tips from Iraqis that chemical weapons were sold to terrorists on the black market. The weapons had been buried to avoid detection, the general told the BBC. Polish military officials bought seventeen chemical-weapons warheads from Iraqis for $5,000 each to keep them from Iraq’s so-called insurgents."

Sources:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3872201.stm http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/07/02/international1018EDT0516.DTL

A. Falsely is a strong, clearly POV word, stop trying to hide it as anything else.
B. Radioactive material doesn't equal WMD's, so you are wrong anyways. Staxringold 01:44, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Changed back to reflect reality.


I'm newly registered, so I can't make changes, but here's an article from August 11, 2004 showing that Iraq had ended its nuclear weapons program in '91: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3556714.stm

The fact that they had some uranium left over from their old nuclear program and some radioactive medical and industrial supplies does not imply a weapons program. Someone should change this article to say that Iraq had no WMD programs. It is common knowledge now that they had no WMDs or WMD programs. Whatever Pelosi may have said, there were no WMD programs, and to say that she "acknowledged" them implies that there were weapons programs. Someone should edit this.

CelestialDog 02:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Wealth

I do not doubt that the Pelosi family is wealthy. However, is this in any way relevant? At the very least the family's personal wealth should be better integrated into the article rather than being in a "trivia" section. Aren't many if not most members of congress multimillionaires? Theshibboleth 02:37, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

This article includes the following info: "The Pelosi family has a net worth of over $25 million, mainly investments of husband Paul Pelosi." I noticed that the main article on George W. Bush doesn't mention anything about his net worth, even though he clearly has an enormous fortune. Once again, it's clear that Wikipedia has become no more a "reference" source than the latest batch of press releases from the RNC.
Good grief. How sensitive and over-dramatic can you get? Add Bush's net worth to his article if it makes you sleep better at night. But why bring it up here? Dubc0724 20:00, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes. That's the way it has been decided. If you want a "Dempedia", go start it yourself. That's free enterprise. 205.188.117.11 19:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Dubc said it best. Pelosi's family net worth is encyclopedic. If someone wants to add similar information to GW's article, they should do it. Kingturtle 01:30, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I would say her wealth is noteworthy. She is the 8th richest member of congress. That makes her wealth noteworthy. (user rhuth 11/8/06)

Her wealth is definitely noteworthy, particularly when she votes for corporate profiteering. This article does not tell the truth about Pelosi, who is in fact, a Republican in disguise. Pco 00:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quote Section

Why is there a quote section on this page. I havent noticed many of these on the pages of other congresional leaders (or senators). I think this section should be part of wikiquote. There is no wikiquote page so I think I might move these if nobody has any objections. Disagreement?


No disagreement so I moved the quote section to wikiquote. If any body wants to help with the formatting that would be great.Jasper23 17:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added: House Democratic Leader

House Democratic Leader was added to her positions. Minority Leader does not necessarily mean House Democratic Leader (could be Republican after this November's elections) and she is the head of the party in the House of Representatives. I think this should be clearly noted. Tlaktan 21:08, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Definition of a Talk page

Some people seem not to understand the use of this page. It is not for jokes, as seen under the headline, "Ray", nor is it for political rumors.

For example, the comment about Democrats taking more lobbyist money than Republicans may be true. I do not know. But, the person brought it up, and didn't mention any specific article. If you have some fact, support it.

Finaly, even if you do not have an account, please mark your posts with four tildas (~). It helps administrators, editors, and the editing bots to identify who has made changes and comments. thank you Porvida 17:51, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "widely praised by liberals"

Pelosi has been widely praised by liberals for her criticism of steps taken by the George W. Bush administration in the years since the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Is it only "liberals" who praise Pelosi? What about civil libertarians? — goethean ॐ 22:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Do you have a source? I changed it back to "by liberals" because I thought praise by anyone else shoud be cited, but I am open for suggestions. Durbinmj 14:19, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Everyone on this talk page REALLY needs to start using four tildes to sign their comments!

Please use four tildes (~) at the end of any comments you make please! This is one of the most confusing talk pages I have ever seen before. Durbinmj 14:13, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Testing 1 2 3132.162.250.118 00:29, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Religion?

Has she stated what religious beliefs she has, if any? If so someone should add that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by unknown (talk • contribs).

She's a Roman Catholic as are most Italian-Americans.
On many occasions, she has stated she is a "Italian-American, Catholic mother of five, grandmother of five going on six.":: 141.161.43.213

[edit] New section under Record

Here's what I came up with so far. Let me know what you think. When discussion is finished or dies down, I'll post it to the article, but I don't want to put it up there without some kind of concensus. Durbinmj 16:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abortion

Pelosi has a long record of being Pro-Choice.[1] Her record of voting shows that she is in favor of a woman’s right to choose, even up into the ninth month, the outcome of her pregnancy. Since 1995 she has consistently voted against any bill that challenges the Supreme Court’s decision regarding the landmark abortion case of Roe vs. Wade. However she has opened herself to some criticism because she voted for the Unborn Victims of Violence Act in 2001 that makes it a federal crime to commit violence against a pregnant woman that interrupts or terminates her pregnancy but voted against it in 2004 when it was reintroduced with a new definition of a violent attack on a pregnant woman as two distinct crimes: one against the woman herself, and the other against her fetus. She is also a consistent yes vote for federal funding of abortion facilities and financial aid to such organizations.


If the phrase "Death Tax" is going to be removed because it has bias behind the phrase, then surely "Pro-Choice" should be changed to "Pro-Abortion" or something similar. Everyone is Pro-Choice and everyone is Pro-Life. Its for or against abortion that is the issue. Also, the second sentence looks as though it was written by a third grader. Also, where did the criticism come from after she voted on the Unborn Victims of Violence Act? Muyoso 00:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

If only it was that simple. Almost nobody is "for abortion". Some people are for giving people the option to have elective abortions, and some people are against it. Characterising the former as being in favour of abortion is POV. Marnanel 20:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
There are at least three different positions (the nuances of which could be split into further separate positions)
1) Anti-abortion (generally believe in using the power of government to prevent women from having an abortion in any way, shape, or form; may or may not accept contraception as a means of preventing unwanted pregnancies; may criminalize doctors and women who participate in an abortion)
2) Pro-choice (generally believe in a more limited government that neither denies women access to abortion nor forces women to have abortion, although government funds may be made available to those who so desire it; may accept contraception as a means of preventing unwanted pregnancies; will not criminalize doctors and women who participate in an abortion)
3) Pro-abortion (China is sometimes alleged of having such a dictatorial family planning policy. I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of what exactly they do there.)
So I agree with Marnanel on this. Settler 19:28, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I think "Death Tax" is properly used here. The Federal law that taxes estates is considered a death tax as opposed to an inheritance tax which taxes those that received inheritances. This is the terminology used within the tax profession. Sometimes people do not understand the terms, but in this case it is a death tax. (user rhuth 11/08/06).

The current article has this under "Abortion":

"Pelosi has consistently voted to further research into adult and embryonic stem cell therapies.[10]"

Embryonic stem cell research and abortion are not the same issue, and it's inaccurate to treat them as such. Simply because embryonic stem cell research uses embryonic tissue and cells does not correlate to it being a facet of abortion. For example, embryos that are created by artificial insemination could be used for embryonic stem cell research without ever being implanted or "aborted". Her stance on the issue of stem cell research should be treated as a seperate topic from abortion. Mjatucla 19:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

The California legislature passed the California Therapeutic Abortion Act in 1967 that was signed into law by then California Governor Ronald Reagan. This California law is at the root of Pelosi's support for access to abortion for all citizens of the United States.[2]

This seemed to be something of a non sequitur. The citation doesn't link Pelosi's to the 1967 law in anyway. I'm inclined to believe that she is pro-choice either because she personally supports the position or because that's what her base wants, not for support of a 40 year old California law. Gjc8 07:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

  • I tend to agree; I don't find the California law relevant at all. Do we have a cite indicating otherwise? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 14:52, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Agriculture

Pelosi has a reputation of being generally supportive of the agriculture sector in her district. [3] However, agriculture is not a large industry in her district so she cannot be counted upon to support the industry in all cases. One of her votes that caught the most criticism from the agriculture industry was against the Farm Security and Rural Investment Act of 2002, which was a continuation of a 1996 bill, signed into law by President Clinton that continued subsidies to small farmers.

[edit] Budget and Taxes

Pelosi has been a strong supporter of a balanced budget and supports federal funding of government programs with tax increases when necessary. [4] She has supported many bills which would increase assistance to the poor and disadvantaged but would increases taxes on higher wage earners. Pelosi has even voted many times against repealing the Death Tax that taxes families on inheritance after a death. She has been an outspoken supporter of a balanced budget and has no tolerance for a deficit in federal spending, even to the point of increasing taxes for all Americans to cover spending.

[edit] Civil Liberties

Pelosi has been a consistent vote in favor of general civil liberties and supporter of First Amendment rights.[5] She has been consistent in voting for freedom of speech even to the point of voting against several bills that would ban burning of the American flag. She has voted and been a strong supporter of the separation of church and state. And she has been a supporter of redefining the definition of marriage to allow same-sex marriages.

seperation of church and state is, as often used by laity in modern america, antithetical to the second half of the establishment clause, assuring free exercise thereof. She can't be both for "sepeation" in its modern context and for civil liberties. You're in for a can of worms on that one, and it might be better to further define her position on seperation as opposed to just using the loaded phrase. Thanatosimii 05:18, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] National Defense

Before September 11, 2001, Pelosi has been fiscally conservative when it comes to government spending on national defense and military programs. After 2001 she has been generally supportive of spending for national defense in areas of the war on terrorism.[6] In San Francisco, however, Pelosi is sometimes seen as more moderate, because she voted for the Patriot Act (which she now opposes) and authored the Presidio Trust Act, which privatized the Presidio of San Francisco. Like most House Democrats, Pelosi opposed the resolution authorizing President Bush to use military force against Iraq, [7] and has acknowledged Saddam Hussein's WMD program.[8] [9] She has also begun to strongly criticize the war effort since then, and has introduced an amendment to the FY 2006 Defense Appropriations bill calling on Bush to specify a strategy for success in Iraq, as well as a timetable for a safe withdrawal of American troops.


The wording, "Like most House Democrats" needs to be removed and is not important. Muyoso 00:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Education

Pelosi has been a strong ally in the federal funding of education, both public schools and higher education.[10] She was even a supporter of the hotly contested “No Child Left Behind Act” in May of 2001 which instituted testing to track students' progress and authorize an increase in overall education spending to nearly $23 billion for fiscal year 2002, and about $135 billion over the 2002-2006 period.

[edit] Environment and Energy

Pelosi has a history of supporting the development of new technology to reduce our dependence upon foreign oil and the adverse effect the burning of fossil fuels has upon the environment.[11] She has widely supported conservation programs and energy research appropriations. However in April of 2005 she stepped out of the Democratic party stance when she voted for drilling for oil in Alaska’s Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

[edit] Gun Control

Pelosi is a reliable vote to restrict the ownership of firearms and concealed carry.[12] She has voted consistently to restrict the amount of handguns sold in the United States and extending the waiting period for purchasing a firearm of any type. However she did vote against the bill that would make background checks at a gun show mandatory and she did vote against the Gun Ban Real Act that sets the mandatory minimum prison sentence for possession of a firearm to 5 years in prison for possession of a firearm while committing a crime and 10 years in prison for brandishing a firearm while committing a violent federal crime or drug trafficking. She has received a rating of F from the NRA, which is the largest gun rights organization in America.

This should be moved into the Civil Liberties section, but it also needs editing. As a starting point, the "F" rating from the NRA doesn't really mean anything without explaining how their ratings work.

[edit] Health Care

Pelosi has been a supporter of strong government control over the health care industry.[13] She has continually voted to increase Medicare and Medicaid benefits across the board. In addition she has voted to support assisted suicide and research on human embryo's for possible cures.

[edit] Immigration

Pelosi has been a constant supporter of immigrant rights no matter what their legal status may be.[14] She has voted against the States choice to deny public education services to illegal immigrants and allow them to collect public assistance such as welfare and Medicaid. Most recently she has voted against the inherent authority of State and local law enforcement to assist in the enforcement of immigration laws, to provide for effective prosecution of alien smugglers, and to reform immigration litigation procedures. She also voted against the Secure Fence Act of 2006 that authorizes the construction of an additional 700 miles of double-layered fencing between the U.S. and Mexico and grants the Secretary of Homeland Security authority to take necessary steps to stop unlawful entry of immigrants into the U.S.

[edit] Labor

Pelosi has continually voted for increasing minimum wage throughout her service as a Representative.[15]

[edit] Science and Medical Research

Pelosi has continually voted to further support adult and embryonic stem cell research.[16] Even as far as cloning a human being in the same manner Dolly the sheep was for research. She has even voted against a bill that would establish criminal and civil penalties for anyone knowingly participating in any stage of the process of human cloning.


Does anyone have an objection to my proposal replacing the Record section in its current form? Durbinmj 00:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

You should just go ahead and do it. It looks good. Jasper23

I disagree. The use of the word "even" in this section implies that many of her positions are far more extreme than they actually are.

I'm troubled by several uses of the word "continually," which is a problem semantically. She hasn't been hitting a "raise the minimum wage" button several times a minute for nineteen years. Perhaps "consistently" is what you were looking for.Beeeej 06:13, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I think there is some conservative bias in the sections as written above. "Continually" and "Even" — which turns up frequently, generally to impress upon the reader that Pelosi is a liberal "even" to [some 'extreme' point] — have been mentioned, but the point about her supporting First Amendment rights "even to the point of voting against several bills that would ban burning of the American flag" has an implied criticism of her that is simply nonsensical. Flag-burning is protected speech, according to the US Supreme Court. It would be pointless for any member of Congress to vote for a bill that directly contravenes a legal precedent set by the Supreme Court. I'm new to wikipedia, so I don't know how to embed a link, but here's one in long form: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=491&invol=397 209.181.213.168 18:40, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, "Pelosi has been a supporter of strong government control over the health care industry" is definitely not NPOV. Supporting more funding for Medicare and Medicaid does not equal believing the government should run every hospital, which is what the clumsily-worded phrase implies. "Pelosi has been a supporter of more funding for government healthcare programs" would be a more neutral way to put it. Also, in the same section, there is no reason to have an apostrophe in the word "embryo's." The plural of embryo is "embryos." Additionally, from a syntactical point of view, "Pelosi has been a constant supporter of immigrant rights no matter what their legal status may be" doesn't say what you think it does: "their" in this sentence refers to the immigrants' rights, not of the immigrants themselves. "The legal status of immigrant rights" doesn't really make sense in this context.

And what does "even up until the ninth month, the outcome of her pregnancy" mean? Pelosi has five children, therefore has had at least five pregnancies. So to whom does the "her" refer? It would make more sense to write, "including into the third trimester, which is the final trimester of the human gestation period" or something similar. Still in the Abortion section, how is "federal funding" different from "financial aid" of facilities that provide abortion services? I can see how she's voted for federal funding, but I'm not even sure what financial aid means in this sentence.

"Death tax" has been mentioned below, but it is clearly a Republican term which should be replaced with the neutral "Estate tax." Also, it needs to be pointed out that the estate tax doesn't "tax families on inheritance after a death" — because this wording implies the estate tax taxes ALL families. It taxes only inheritors whose inheritance is very large. And, again, your "even to the point of increasing taxes for all Americans to cover spending" implies some extremity in her position — why not just let her position on balanced budgets, and the potential necessity for increased taxes they cause, speak for itself? Unless you can prove that wanting to raise taxes to work on the deficit is extreme for her party.

"Redefining the definition" of marriage is almost an oxy-moron, and it plays off some Republican keywords. Try "She supports extending marriage rights to same-sex couples." Add "which is not a mainstream opinion in her party," if you want, and can provide a source for it, if you want to show that it's kind of a minority opinion in the U.S. But state the policy position in neutral language.

"Acknowledged Saddam Hussein's WMD program" has been pointed out as problematic. Saying she expressed belief in it would be more accurate, since according to David Kay and all evidence uncovered, there was no WMD program to acknowledge.

Where talking about alternative fuels, you use an "our" which implies a uniquely U.S. audience, which isn't appropriate.

The Gun Control section has been critiqued below.

Unless you can post a link to where Pelosi said she supported human cloning in exactly the same way as Dolly the sheep was cloned, and voted for the bill you mention, remove it. It needs a source. 209.181.213.168 19:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Missing

Is she actually missing or is she that unpopular? http://drudgereport.com/ 71.156.46.96 11:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

She was with former President Clinton the other night at a fundraiser in San Francisco. Talk pages are supposed to be used to discuss changes or improvements to the article. Settler 15:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Death Tax and Immigration

The phrase Death Tax is leading. This is merely a ploy by those in opposition to the Estate Tax to make people believe that it is unfair. Please alter this phrase as it is unfair and makes her sound ridiculous. Name it "Estate Tax" and if the law is wrong, then it will be apparent based on its contents, not its conservative nickname. It makes the opposition to the law look weak when you have to trick people into opposing it.......

Basically, let's be truthful and name it what it is, not a polarizing name given to it by its opponents.

Also, concerning immigration. "She also voted against the Secure Fence Act of 2006 that ... grants the Secretary of Homeland Security authority to take necessary steps to stop unlawful entry of immigrants into the U.S." Whether the actions authorized in the act are "necessary to stop unlawful entry" is a point of view, not a fact.

This entire section of positions are obviously written by someone who disagrees with many of her views, and is unfair and should be rewritten. Kudos on the call that she acknowledged the "existence" of WMDs. I did not know that. However, their "existence" was never proved, thus leaving nothing to be "acknowledged". She "believed in" their existence would be much more non-partisan. Let's please stick to facts, rather than mere opinions.

I appreciate your POV. I wouldn't be against changing Death Tax to Estate Tax. As far as the Secure Fence Act, I merely quoted the bill itself.
If you see something that isn't a fact let's discuss it. That's what Wikipedia is all about.
Don't assume that I am "obviously" someone who disagrees with many of her views. You don't know me. Let's keep it to a civil discussion. Durbinmj 04:38, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
68.48.129.210 19:11, 4 November 2006 (UTC) That's the problem, you can tell. You should watch the way you use the word "even", you load many of your statements that way.
Yes, lets keep it civil. I think Durbinmj is interested in improving this article and discussion on the talk page should reflect that. That being said, I also agree that it should be Estate Tax and not Death Tax. Also, the immigration point you bring up could be reworded in a more npov way. ThanksJasper23 19:14, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-Protection

I have unprotected the page. It was semi-protected for more than four months. That is completely unacceptable. Pages should only be protected temporarily after being heavily vandalized by anonymous users. Semi-protection does not mean indefinite protection. Superm401 - Talk 01:49, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Why complain about another administrator here where they may never see it? It's not like us non-administrators had a choice one way or the other. Wouldn't it make more sense to leave a note on the other admin's talk page? --RP88 02:30, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hacker attack

This page is 'capturing' anyone that visits it...you can't use the back button to return to a previous page. Has it been hacked...by Wikipedia or others? --24.153.212.149 15:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

What OS are you using, what browser, what version of the browser, what page are you looking at (article or talk page). I have not noticed this using either Firefox 2.0 or Opera 9.0 on a PPC Macintosh running OSX 10.4.8 but I don't have IE or Windows to test it on. This seems like it is most likely an individual problem and not a widespread one. --Rtrev 16:19, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FYI House Speaker

She hasn't been chosen as Speaker yet. Assuming she will be at some point in the future, she'll take over responsibilities in January. Settler 04:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes there is always a chance that she will not be chosen as the Speaker of the House but most likely she will. But until she is chosen please do not put that she will be the next Speaker. Jayorz12 06:40, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Read here: http://elections.us.reuters.com/top/news/usnN08481716.html. Reuters, the world's leading news wire service, is willing to call it for her. The article now reads "nearly guarantees". That level of certainty is truthful. Stephen Job 16:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
People were editing the article to write that she was Speaker effective immediately; this was an incorrect assumption. I agree she will likely be chosen Speaker as per Article I, Section 2, of the United States Constitution. That wasn't the point of my FYI notice. Settler 17:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Understood and sorry. I really appreciate the current wording: "universally expected". Stephen Job 19:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
FYI, elections for the Speakership will take place this week; afterwards, she will officially be speaker-in-waiting.141.161.136.30 21:46, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fast Edits as things happen

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper. It is not appropriate to edit this page, or any others, rapidly and repeatedly as election results come in. We should wait till things settle down and write the story AFTER it has unfolded. Cazort 05:55, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

This is definitely the case. WP is not a blog or even a news service. We should definitely wait on this. There is no reason to jump to it. If true it can be written up tomorrow. If false it just looks bad to assume. Wait and see should be the policy here. --Rtrev 06:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Very Misleading on Issues!

I cannot edit the article, or I would, but I would like to point out that the issues listed are very misleading. for example, under gun control, the act should be called the "Gun Ban Repeal Act of 1995." She voted against this bill not because she is easy on crime , but because the bill aimed to repeal bans on semiautomatic assault weapons. It also says that she voted against a bill that would make background checks at a gun show mandatory. Well, she voted against A bill to make these checks mandatory, because the waiting period was only 24 hours. She voted FOR an amendment to make the waiting period 72 hours. Please correct these changes ASAP , so people are not misled. I have not reviewed the other issues, but I plan to in the coming days.

I removed some dubious claims or obvious vandalism earlier; a lot of work remains to be done. :-/ Settler 08:17, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I fixed the info based on articles from Project Vote Smart. [7], [8], [9]. Thanks for the heads up on the incorrect info. Gdo01 08:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] socialist nonsense

the final sentence of the following passage is severely misleading:

"Pelosi supports federal funding of government programs with tax increases when necessary. [...] he has supported many bills which would increase assistance to the poor and disadvantaged while increasing taxes on higher wage earners. Pelosi has also voted against repealing the Estate Tax. Pelosi is therefore, by definition, a socialist."

In fact a socialist by definition is someone who supports socialism, which is 1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

OR 2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

Calling her a socialist is entirely fallacious. Adding "by definition" makes the sentence even more desperate and immature. If anything it makes her a liberal democrat, not a socialist. The sentence obviously comes from somebody who has no grasp of what actual socialism is. America has no socialist movement. There's still hardcore communist parties in europe. Grow up. Supporting social programs doesn't make you a "socialist."

Its been fixed. Gdo01 18:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
America has no socialist movement.
There's Bernie Sanders. — goethean ॐ 18:18, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
It's a moot point anyway. To draw a conclusion about the subject, in an editorializing tone of voice (ie., "so-and-so did a, b, and c, therefore so-and-so is a socialist") constitutes original synthesis, a kind of original research, which is explicitly against WP policy. Even if the conclusion of Pelosi's "socialism" was logically unassailable, the phrase would nevertheless have to be stricken as original research. Kasreyn 06:04, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] +Spanish

Please, include the Spanish interwiki: [[es:Nancy Pelosi]]. Thank. Satesclop 19:43, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Done. I also alphabetized the interwiki links. -Fsotrain09 19:49, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Danish interwiki, da:Nancy Pelosi, is also requested, thanks :) --Morten Barklund [ talk / contribs ] 13:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Done. Gdo01 13:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV Discussion

Why did the entry below get deleted? Pelosi has defended Israel from claims that the Arab-Israeli conflict is based on Israel's desire to control all land in the West Bank and Gaza ref: [10]. Despite extensive accounts of Israel's illegal occupation and violation of U.N. resolutions, Pelosi says "This is absolute nonsense. In truth, the history of the conflict is not over occupation, and never has been: it is over the fundamental right of Israel to exist."[17] [18] [19]

Pco 00:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)Nancy plays on both sides of the table, so that is why all of the information about her is relevant. That is how people learn the truth about someone who pretends to have democratic party goals, when they actual have corporate profit goals. She wants to deny us the right to impeachment, but give us some minimum wage crumbs. If we do not expose all of her actions (good, bad and hard to understand), then the article is not neutral. Pco 00:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


This article isn't NPOV. For instance, how can someone who "...has consistently favored general civil liberties and First Amendment rights" be the same person who voted in favor of the PATRIOT Act? Also in the civil liberties arena, if her support or non-support of the Federal Marriage Amendment is going to be made as a civil liberties issue, her constant anti-gun stance should be included--if we're going to include non-canon civil liberties (ie: ones not included in the bill of rights) such as gay rights, why isn't her stance on the right to bear arms (which is at least mentioned in the bill of rights, disputed as interpretation may be)? TheFrog 23:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

You aren't quite making sense here. NPOV means Neutral POV, though it's quite clear that you believe the article is biased. --Lehk 04:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm removing the NPOV boilerplate. The current page does conform to the POV guidelines; None of the POV issues raised in this talk page are still outstanding. Just because it references a US political entity doesn't mean it's automatically NPOV, people.--Allthenamesarealreadytaken 00:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

The reason that nothing is outstanding is because your admins just keep deleting anything new. If they delete all additional information, then it is NOT NEUTRAL! Additionally, instead of just deleting the part they have a problem with, they delete the entire post - why? Pco 01:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


I'm putting it back, as none of the issues raised have been resolved, meaning they're still outstanding. However, I'd like to personally thank you for the condescension, because it's really helpful!TheFrog 00:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2nd Amendment?

I'm rather interested in the following verbiage from the section on "Civil Liberties":

while coming out against the Second Amendment.

Oh really? So Representative Pelosi said something along the lines of "I think the Second Amendment was a bad idea and should be repealed"?

I call POV. There are varying interpretations of the meaning of the Second Amendment. Under some interpretations - including the one common among mainstream Democrats - gun control issues such as the three-day waiting period are consistent with the constitution. Under the interpretation of others, apparently, any gun control whatsoever constitutes "coming out against the Second Amendment". If we have a source that describes her actions in this way, then we can quote them and cite them. Otherwise, it's inappropriate for WP to make such grandiose and judgmental statements. Comments? Kasreyn 22:36, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree - I thought this entire article was within the realm of "neutral" with the exeception of the "against the 2nd amendment" bit. Has she ever said she wants to repeal the 2nd amendment? If not, this sentence clause needs to be thrown out because it's not accurate. I think her record on gun control speaks for itself; no need for over-the-top claims that she is challenging the constitution.

  • I pulled the 2nd amendment language, as it's pure POV. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 23:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

The following article might be of interest to add to the external links once the edit block is lifted...

China anticipates bumpy road with U.S.
AP via Yahoo! News - Nov 09 1:09 PM
China is uneasily anticipating a bumpy road in relations with the United States now that the Democrats' victory in midterm elections has placed one of Beijing's most ardent critics in charge of the House of Representatives.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061109/ap_on_re_as/china_us_elections_1

[edit] Over Zealousness

I think Admins need to be less trigger happy when it comes to protecting pages. Esp those featured on the main page. Wikipedia is seems to constantly be under martial law - where the admins are the marshalls ;)

I half agree but I think when the article is a biography of a living person some extra protection might be worthwhile. More people on the recent changes patrol would of course be better but as it stands I think this is quite sensible. Jellypuzzle | Talk 11:28, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
OK 220.246.168.48 14:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Accession to Speaker: Terminology

I have reverted the language surrounding Pelosi's accession to the position of Speaker of the United States House of Representatives to: "...universally expected to become...". See source, or search any news site. IHT and NYT are referring to Pelosi as "Speaker-Elect", and when Bush called Pelosi to congratulate her, he referred to her as "Madam-Speaker-Elect". [20] Stephen Job 21:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I didn't see all of that, but let's wait for more concrete info before saying universally. I think "expected" is sufficient. We haven't really heard much on who may be the candidates. Though it probably will be Pelosi, lets avoid such broad terms. StayinAnon 21:58, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On-going Vandalism

I came to this page a few hours ago to find some background information on Congresswoman Pelosi. (I don't live in the United States.)

Too my surprise, the page was littered with childish, nasty vandalism. I reverted a few of the more obviously defamatory ones and then checked the history page. It showed that the page had been suffering an on-going barrage of attacks. Even in the past few minutes this page has rapidly changed with reverts and new insertions.

A possibly naive question: Is this usually the case with the pages of newsworthy American politicians? If so, it’s a very great shame. People the world over use the Wikipedia for reliable information. It saddens me to see such a noble project undone.

(But I commend and thank those who defend its integrity. Kudos.) --OldCommentator 01:35, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, sadly, it's a very common occurrence on WP for political partisans to resort to petty vandalism of bio articles. Supporters of every party of note have been guilty of it. In general, whenever any polarizing figure gets significant attention in the news, vandalism on that individual's bio article goes through the roof. Naturally, Representative Pelosi's recent media exposure, coupled with her high public office, are magnets for vandalism. Kasreyn 06:00, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Awkward wording, inaccurate or POV?

as of 02:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC): Under the Civil Liberties section, the following sentence appears:

"She has also been an opponent of the Federal Marriage Amendment and enforcement of the Fourteenth Amendment barring discrimination based on race."

The last phrase looks to be in error, POV, or undeveloped. Davodd 02:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

It sounds like a POV-pushing way of saying that she supports affirmative action. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 03:48, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA

This article failed the stability criteria of WP:WIAGA as it is a current event on the main page. Tarret 18:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

This doesn't seem quite fair, as much of the main page instability is due to vandalism rather than edit wars. Homestarmy 03:59, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Lock this article!

THIS ARTICLE HAS BEEN SUBJECT TO RECENT VANDALISM. On 12 Nov at 5:57 mst, I removed the phrase "she drinks childs blood" from the history portion. This is clearly in violation of Wikipedia standards of quality. Repeat: This article needs to be locked from editing, ASAP! User: Aikibum

I don't really think it warrants a lock. I think that she has been receiving a lot of attention recently... clearly. But the vandalism has been fairly sporadic and is getting reverted very quickly (I think the forces of Wikipedia good are also paying attention to her). So unless some serious and sustained vandalism happens in the future I think that things are under control for now. --Rtrev 01:43, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New picture needed

A new, current picture is needed and appropriate. I dont know how to do make this change or i would. The current picture is ancient. Please, in the name of accuracy, someone make the needed change.

I am not really sure that it is that urgent. If someone finds a new copyright free headshot I am all for adding it but its clearly her. Her appearance hasn't changed that much. --Rtrev 15:21, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
The current pages' picture is what is being used at her official house.gov website and the democratic leader page. I'd stick with what's official. I'm guessing there will likely be a picture change next year when the new term starts. DavidRF 02:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Weasel Words

In agreement with WP:AWW, I added the weasel words tag. The weasel words page has examples that are throughout this article and are being added at an alarming rate. For example... "...is widely regarded as..." "Actually..." "Correctly (justly, properly, ...) or not, ..." Note this has nothing to do with the POV tag. It's not a one or the other deal! Durbinmj 00:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA nom: fail

Any article about a controversial political figure needs to be rigorously NPOV and source all assertions. This article has clearly suffered at the hands of editors with political agendas both supporting and opposing Pelosi. I have tried to correct what I could but I am not going to try to continue to defend this article against partisan editors. I must fail this article, at least until the fact tags I have added are addressed. --Ideogram 08:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

For future reference, a GA nom for this article belongs in the "Social sciences (includes economy, law, politics, war)" section. --Ideogram 08:48, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 60 Minutes appearance -- Civility

Not sure if this has been discussed, but one thing that sticks out in my mind is her appearance on 60 Minutes where she discusses "bringing back civility" to congress. The interviewer points out that she's said some not-so-WP:CIV things about Bush, to which she replies something to the effect of "I could say much worse." Anyway, the point here is that she's (as politicians do...) saying one thing and doing another, but it seems notable to me 1) because this in particular seems to be a big talking point for her, and 2) she gets called out by the interviewer as "part of the problem" and rationalizes it. In other words, her commitment to a stated goal is questionable. Maybe a bullet point under the political platform and voting record deal? Alwarren@ucsd.edu 11:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Well, first you need to find a WP:RS asserting that her commitment to that specific stated goal is questionable. After that you can consider creating such a bullet point. That you yourself find her commitment questionable is not enough. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 14:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Look, I'm obviously familiar with Wikipedia policy such as WP:RS, or I wouldn't have cited WP:CIV, so you can cut out the condescension. My question, which you did actually manage to inadvertently answer, was whether this comment is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia. Alwarren@ucsd.edu 20:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
      • OK, sorry I tried to help. Never mind. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 20:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
        • Thanks :) Alwarren@ucsd.edu 21:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
  • For clarity, this suggestion is biased and has no place in the article. It would be reasonable (WP:NPOV) to state that she has been a vocal opponent of Pres. George W. Bush, and that she has stated a goal for herself of "bringing back civility" to Congress. However, drawing the conclusion that this means "her commitment to a stated goal is questionable" is biased and therefore doesn't meet the NPOV standards this article is supposed to meet. If you obtain the references regarding those two WP:NPOV facts (her opposition to Pres. G. W. Bush and statement that she wants to "bring back civility to Congress"), they can (and I believe probably should, especially in regards to her historical political opposition to Pres. G. W. Bush) be added to the article independent of the biased conclusion. Mjatucla 10:37, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Relevance of Lance Armstrong picture?

So she's met Lance Armstrong - big deal. It's not surprising given they are both relatively well-known. But it seems irrelevant (if not self-serving as a sympathetic POV for her by fans of Lance Armstrong) as I was unable to find any information regarding Lance in the article. I do not know how to remove images, so if people generally agree, I would appreciate it if it were removed. Jwigton 01:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Agreed- The photo has little to do with the article, I suggest removal. StayinAnon 02:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
    • I think it adds a nice visual to the article. I don't see the harm in having it in and wonder why it is was removed so quickly. I think I will put it back in. I think it has a lot to do with the article because it features Nancy Pelosi. Jasper23 07:31, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
      • Jasper, sorry I jumped the gun, I misread the date on the original posting. I still don't think it has anything to do with the articles. I hate how these political articles have pictures in them that have nothing to do with the persons or positions. No one had any references to the picture or why it was taken, so it really was not relevant. StayinAnon 08:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
        • Thats ok. I agree that the picture in question doesnt have any overwhelming relevance but if it is taken out I would like to see it replaced with a picture of similar or better quality. Just to break up the text in the article.Jasper23 15:20, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] It is not the Democratic party it is the Democrat Party.

There are many instances in this article that uses the word "democratic" e.g. democratic party. This is not correct. The correct name is the Democrat Party. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.12.121.188 (talk • contribs).

I beg to differ. In the election of 1791-1792 there were two parties: Federalists and Democratic Republicans. By 1816 the Federalists had died out (era of good feeling). In 1825-1830 the National Republicans split from the Democratic Republicans in opposition to A. Jackson. In 1834 this party took the name Whig. At the same time the Democratic Republicans became the Jacksonian Democrats and later just Democrats. In 1850, the Whig party tore apart over slavery and the present Republican party was organized. If the Democrats wish to change their name again, they are certainly free to do so. But I do not think that they have formally done so. I believe the formal name i.e. the name on ballots etc. is still Democrat. Cheers.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.12.121.188 (talk • contribs).

Fair enough. Citation: p. 293. An American History by David Saville Muzzey, Ph.D. Barnard College, Columbia University, New York. Published by Ginn and Company Boston, New York, Chicago, London Copyright 1911 by David S. Muzzey.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.12.121.188 (talk • contribs).

  • Did you just cite a source from 1911? Jasper23 21:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I certainly did. And what a great book. Muzzey taught at Columbia at the time that Woodrow Wilson (the great historian and later President of the US) was president of Columbia University. You can probably find the book in the Columbia U. library. You can certainly find it in the library of the University of Michigan. Or you can see it here: An American History. Just scroll to p.293 for the citation. Cheers.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.12.121.188 (talk • contribs).

A source published in 1911 cannot by definition be reliable on the topic of the current common or proper name of the party, regardless of how "great" you consider it to be. Please find a current (published in or after 1988) source to support your assertion. Thanks. -Fsotrain09 00:10, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
"Democrat" is the noun used for members of the "Democratic party," but it's not the party name. You're misinterpreting what the man wrote, but he leaves himself open to misinterpretation by the use of "party," and then absence of the word "party" after "Republican" or "Democrat" in this one instance. Everywhere else in the book--including the index--"Democratic party" is used. Settler 01:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
This isn't the place to argue over "Democrat Party" versus "Democratic Party". If someone believes that "Democrat Party" is the real name in 2006, he/she needs to go to Democrat Party (phrase) and convince the editors there that The correct name is the Democrat Party, since that article clearly states it is NOT (as does Democratic Party (United States). Once that's accomplished, sure, come back here and point out that others have changed their mind. John Broughton | Talk 01:30, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Why not check out the Democrats Web Site. This was suggested above. I tend to believe that they know what their name is. That should solve the issue. Markco1 16:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More on foreign policy

I removed the "opinion" and just left the fact and the source, yet it still keeps being deleted. Why?

Under Congressional Career, I posted


Even before the Democratic Party won a Majority of seats in the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi announced that "impeachment is off the table", [4] as if it were solely up to her. This is profound and is something that no Congressional Representative has ever had the audacity to determine and announce all by themselves.

The reference was there. She said it, and it is notable. If it cannot be in there, then this is not a neutral article.


If anyone would like to help contribute, here are two sites regarding Pelosi's stance on the crisis in Sudan: [12] [13]. The sub-category "Africa" can be changed to "Africa and the Sudan crisis" with the added information. Thanks. --Shamir1 00:03, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

This article is not neutral and people keep reverting without any good cause. If you did not hear pelosi say that "impeachment is off the table" I will provide a source, but if you are reverting the page every 2 minutes, no one can finish what they are doing.

Pelosi is a hypocrite and there are plenty of sources that prove it. so relax and let someone else put the truth on the page. Pco 20:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

You need to read WP:RS and WP:NPOV. Don't put your opinion into the article as you have been, it's just going to get taken out. You said "infuriating the majority of voters", but you didn't cite any evidence supporting your claim that the "majority of voters" felt that way. So it got taken out. You said "Despite extensive factual accounts" but you didn't cite a source showing what these factual accounts were. So it got taken out. Wikipedia is not a forum for you to push your political agenda. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


I am not pushing an agenda and I provided a source for the issue of taking "impeachment off the table". This is very relevant to her political career. Impeachment is not the choice of one representative, it is a process that takes place after investigations locate evidence. For her to say it, is very notable. I will locate the sources that factually describe the Israeli violation of law to steal palestinian land, and post it with the source. I thought it was common knowledge. Pco 00:04, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

All your source says is that impeachment is off the table. It does not say anything about a majority of voters wanting impeachment, Pelosi being powerless to stop the process, or nothing about "the audacity" of someone saying something. Either way, you are underestimating the power a Speaker has. Just because the last few Speakers have been low key (basically because there was no dissent), doesn't mean that Pelosi will not use the full power of the post to keep bills she doesn't like from ever getting anywhere. Gdo01 00:13, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
You just deleted my post without even reading it, It didn't say anything about voters wanting impeachment. It only stated the fact of what she said. Why don't you take the time to read the post. If that is not a valid citation, then this forum is bogus and you are the biased one. Pco 02:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
If you look at the history, you will see that an ip has been vandalizing this page. Unfortunately, I had no time to read your edit since I was correcting the pretty blatant vandalism. Try to examine the situation before baselessly accusing those who are trying to fix the article. Gdo01 02:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Change to incorectly quoted statement

Lets try to not slant quotes: Line read as such.
While he was mayor, Nancy helped him maintain a ledger of political favors owed or performed
This statement is misleading, article states the following.
This is testimony to Ms Pelosi's toughness. The lady from San Francisco learned the art of politics in the old school. Her father, a New Deal congressman turned mayor of Baltimore, kept a ledger of favours done and owed, and “Little” Nancy, the youngest of six children and the only girl, was in charge of the book. She has had no compunction about dishing out favours to her underlings—and about threatening punishment for miscreants.
Changing to the following
"In the family young Nancy helped her father maintain a ledger of favors amongst her siblings owed or performed
 Markco1 16:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Personaly I believe that it should be removed but I have just fixed the deliberate slandering from a twisted quote. We should discuss whether this information is even needed in the article and if we should just strike it. Markco1 16:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Support

Support removal Markco1 22:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Since the goal here is an encyclopedia article, not a full-length book, I also support removing this. John Broughton | Talk 21:49, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Support removal Just take it out. It's crap. Doesn't belong in any encyclopedia. See WP:CRAP. Jasper23 16:57, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Support removal It would be very interesting for a biography but not so encyclopedic. --Rtrev 17:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oppose

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