Talk:Muse

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[edit] disambig

There's also a (Britpop) band named Muse.

conventions so far would say put them at Muse (band) and put a link here. -- Tarquin 09:15 Oct 9, 2002 (UTC)
This needs a real disambig page: Muse, Muse (band), MusE, MuSE - Omegatron 15:32, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
Agreed. It is difficult to find information on the band when searching for them - Az Paz 12:30, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Real disambiguation page created - Az Paz 12:50, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
With Muse (disambiguation) the recent re-insertion of the little advert is not required. Deleted.--Wetman 01:27, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Convention would have a link to the band included. For exmaple Chili pepper, Gondwanaland, Placebo, Atreyu, Franz Ferdinand and so on. This is a case for reinstertion. It's addition does not degrade the quality of the page. Space Erased 11:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

This article makes the statement that originally there were 3 Muses, but later they were 9 in number -- & with different names. (This claim is also repeated in Zeus.) A quick look at my primary Greek Mythology reference -- H.R. Rose's A Handbook of Greek Mythology, which is usually reliable & very detailed -- does not mention this fact. Can someone offer verification that this was the case? -- llywrch 22:29, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Added the reference to chapter and verse of Pausanias. Bacchiad 23:49, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Somebody please complete the sentence in 4th para in section "Cults of the Muses". "... in Boeotia all played host to festival in which poetic recitations were". The sentence just ends there abruptly. Jay 21:09, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

ah.. thanks User:Bacchiad. Jay 15:45, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] I'm a rookie Wiki - what do you think of my addition?

I added the "functions in literature" section, and also listed the props and poses often associated with certain muses. Whaddaya think?

I liked it. The only (small) problem I saw was the formatting. For literary block quotes, it's preferred to use

colons to format it like this

rather than

spaces to format it like this.

Bacchiad 21:02, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)


Kickin'. The spaces showed automatically when I pulled from another site, so your change is appropriate and welcome.

-Circular 2:46AM, 28 Dec 2004 (PCT)

[edit] Muses and Creativity Today

I found the article very interesting. Does anyone know anything about modern Muses? I'm curious about where artists and creative people in particular get their inspiration from. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

On inspiration: I am running a virtual gallery called Broken Muses being inspired by broken mannequins. --Brandlm 21:04, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Drugs. (Oct.)
  • More seriously, "they rip each other off".
  • Most seriously: to pay the bills. "Necessity is the mother of invention".

The accompanying painting is of the three Graces, not the Muses.

Oop. Our anonymous friend is right. I've moved them to Charites. (That's Wikipedian for "Graces" eh.) --Wetman 00:57, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Helike

Hello classicists! Recently a moon of Jupiter (planet) was named Helike. The namers state that Helike was one of the Muses. I don't see this named listed here and am wondering whether it was actually an alternative name for the whole group, since they came from Mount Helicon. Is this correct? (I've tried googling to no avail). The Singing Badger 21:48, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Best I've found are some sources that have Helike be the tutelary goddess of Mount Helikon (there's a recurring theme about willows, too), which was the dwelling place of the Muses. In that sense, Helike is a composite of all of the Muses. If you think Helike is bad, try Eukelade --I've found absolutely nothing about her, which is surprising considering the high quality sites that exist about Greek mythology.
Urhixidur 04:02, 2005 Apr 3 (UTC)
Helike was one of the nymphs that nurtured Zeus in his infancy on Crete [1], hence the astronomy connection. But Mount Helicon is in Boeotia, the haunt of the Muses, not strongly-Zeus-connected. The willow connection is suggestive: The "Willow Mountain" Helicon and also a quite distinct "willow-nymph"— just as there were oak tree nymphs and ash-nymphs (Dryads and Meliai). --Wetman 16:16, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Other Words

  • Are the words "mosaic" or "mouse" related to the muses? I assume that "amusement" or "bemused" is. Perhaps "Cleo-patra", is named after one of the muses, and her name meant, "the father of history"? The "calliope" is a musical instrument, isn't it? (Oct.)

Mosaic indeed derives from Medieval Latin musaicum: "work of the Muses". The root out of which Greek "Mousa" originally stems is *menth- whose basic meaning is "to know", "to learn". So they are "the Ones Who Know"; this is why they are invoked by poets, so as to tell them the truth, although the Mousai have also claimed (in Hesiod) that they can lie as well. Kalliope means "she of the beautiful voice". If the name has been given to an instrument or when I can't tell. Lucius Domitius 03:10, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

The name "Cleopatra" is a composite of "kleos" which means "glory", "renown" and "pater", meaning "father": her name essentially means something along the lines of "she who comes from a glorious father", or "she who is of a glorious pedigree" in more general terms. You are correct in that "kleos" and the name "Kleio" are of the same root, that is *kleu-, which essentially means "to hear". One cannot really say what "Kleio" means by the way, perhaps it is "the renowned one" or "she who knows the deeds of renown" i.e. history. Lucius Domitius 00:29, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] chronology

when are the names first attested? Does Hesiod have them? Or does Hesoid have the4 number nine? 85.232.167.109 17:32, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

It is already in Hesiod's "Theogony"; the catalogue of their names is in lines 77-9. They are nine in number (line 60), probably something to do with the fact that Zeus was having intercourse with Mnemosyne, their mother, for nine days (lines 53-6). Lucius Domitius 17:10, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

  • "The muses are typically invoked at or near the beginning of an epic poem or classical Greek story." What do you suppose was intended by a "classical Greek story"? A prose narrative that invoked a muse? Can you think of one? --Wetman 05:47, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The use of muse for a living person

I think this article is lacking information for the use of the word for a real living person. The first four headings only talk about mythical persons. The heading The concept of the Muse-poet somewhat goes into the other direction, but really just consists of a quote that does not say very much about the woman. So there is only this sentence left: The word muse may be used figuratively, to denote someone who inspires an artist. in the misc section. Have a look at the German Wikipedia articles: muse (mythical) and muse (relationship), the are not very good, but have about equal length. --84.178.77.42 20:48, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Your translation of the relevant German Wikipedia text on this extension of "muse" would be a welcome addition. See if you don't want to log in. --Wetman 01:41, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Classical Invocations of the muses

However beautiful their poetry, perhaps we should not include Shakespeare, Dante and Milton among the Classics? Surely there must be other surviving Greek authors who invoked the muses. Could we put the more "modern" examples in a subsequent subsection? cladist Oct 4 2006

Go for it! introduce the Renaissance/Baroque invocations with a brief note on how they differ from their classical models. --Wetman 13:27, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation

Multiple disambiguation is not used on article pages, in wikipedia per the wikipedia disambiguation guidelines. This guideline states that where the user may be searching for something else, a link is provided. It is perfectly reasonable to provide a direct link to another article where there is one other use (as per the edit comment in Renesis13's edit - it provides an example where one other use for "ColdFusion" ).

However, the guidelines also clearly state that:-

"Where there are several articles to be disambiguated from each other, include a link to a separate disambiguation page."

The Muse (disambiguation) page has 19 separate articles for the term (although 4 are redlinks). Disambiguation pages are provided specifically to avoid multiple disambiguation in articles. Guinness 11:24, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

You are misinterpreting the guidelines. That the guidelines says to include a link to a separate disambiguation page does NOT mean that a secondary common article cannot (or should not) also be linked to. Why else would there be a template for it? Please read the guidelines more carefully, as well as the instructions for use of the "otheruses" templates (Template:Otheruses). -- Renesis (talk) 15:43, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I think we're going to disagree on the interpretation of the guidlines, although I'm a little surprised about the existence of a template. In any case since we are not going to agree between ourselves on this, I have asked for the guidelines to be clarified. I humbly suggest that you keep an eye on anything that goes on there, and add your input as you see fit. Regards, Guinness 21:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the band Muse reaches the level of common-ness for inclusion in the base-name article along with the dab, though, even though I agree that in some cases a secondary use could. -- JHunterJ 22:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 10th and 11th muse

Aren't those associated with film and television, respectivly?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 03:57, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More disambiguation

I have removed the section on the National Science Foundation MUSE project and all links to related web sites. It has nothing to do with muse in this context, and its entry has a link on the muse disambiguation page. PacificBoy 15:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

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