Talk:Munster Irish

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A great deal of work needs to be done on this article as there are some inaccuracies in the text, for example the claim that "bh" or "mh" are pronounced as [v] in initial position and not as [w] even though both pronunciations exist in the spoken language of the remaining Gaeltachtaí in the said position. Unfortunately, I don't get much time these days to edit but I will try to do a little bit each day.

That would be great! Keep in mind, however, that whatever we write here has to be backed up with reliable sources that are cited so that the information can be verified. I've described the West Muskerry dialect as it's given in Ó Cuív's book; if other things are true in other parts of Munster, be sure to cite sources for additional information. I'm afraid it's not allowed to state things in Wikipedia articles based only one's own personal experience without published sources to back it up. User:Angr 13:46, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I understand what you are saying. The provision of reliable sources of information pertains to any topic of study. As for my own credentials on this topic, I used to teach a course in Trinity College, Dublin entitled "Phonology and Morphology of West Munster Irish". This is still something that interests me greatly and am currently compiling a Munster dictionary of lexical and semantical features peculiar to Munster, particularly the western half of the province. I come from Co. Cork originally but not from a Gaeltacht area, alas, although Corca Dhuibhne is as familiar to me as Dublin. The main texts currently available are:

• The Irish of West Muskerry, Ó Cuív
• Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne, Diarmuid Ó Sé
• Gaeilge na Mumhan in Stair na Gaeilge, Eag. Kim Mc Cone
• LASID
• The Irish of Ring, Co. Waterford, Ristead Breatnach
• An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Chléire, Breandán Ó Buachalla
• Irish Dialects and Irish speaking Districts, Ó Cuív

etc. etc.

Might I suggest that the article be divided between West Munster Irish and East Munster Irish (which today remains only in Rinn Ó gCuanach although if Ó Cuív is correct East Munster Irish stretched in a broad band from the Déise across Tipperary and east Limerick and on into Clare. See Irish Dialects and Irish speaking Districts.) as the two show a number of significant differences. This is the approach taken by Mícheál (?) Ó Siadhail in Modern Irish:Syntactic and Dialectal Variations.

I wish I had more time to contribute further to the articles. I'll add anything I think would be relevant and provide sources where applicable.

Thank you. An Muimhneach Machnamhach 12:02, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

In addition to the works you listed above, there's also Phonétique d'un parler irlandais de Kerry and Description d'un parler irlandais de Kerry by M. L. Sjoestedt(-Jonval), which I have photocopies of. And of course it would be great to have both East Munster and West Munster discussed in the article. The only reason I stuck to Ó Cuív's book originally is that I didn't have a lot of time and wanted to get something coherent and more or less cohesive down. User:Angr 14:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Sjoestedt-Jonval's text is one I've been eager to get my hands on for several years now but of course it's been out of print for many years. Let me say that I think that you've made an excellent job of the article and have not fallen into the habit of making blanket statements about Munster Irish which are often at best half true. Good work! I'll carry out a few edits when I get the time. Let me know what you think good or bad. Thanks again. An Muimhneach Machnamhach 15:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

She died in 1940, meaning the works will enter the public domain on 2011-01-01. Once that happens I'll see about putting them up at Wikisource. Hope you can wait five more years! As for "making blanket statements about Munster Irish which are often at best half true", I have the advantage that I didn't grow up in Ireland, so I don't even know what stereotypes there are. All I know about Munster (or any other dialect; I also wrote Connacht Irish and Ulster Irish) I got from reliable linguistically oriented books! User:Angr 15:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)