User talk:Muke

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Hello Muke, welcome to Wikipedia. Noticed your contribution to Indo-European languages; nice to see a linguist (or phonetist?) making contributions here. There is plenty to do!

Here are some useful links if you need any help:

You can sign posts on talk pages by entering four tildes (~~~~~); the system automatically inserts your username with a datestamp. If you have any questions, see Wikipedia:Help, post a question to the Village pump, or leave a message on my Talk page. Enjoy, -- Viajero 09:32, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] SAMPA chart

Uh, it seems you are about to mess up SAMPA chart again. Would you please verify your changes for consistency? (Right now it disagree with IPA, description, and contradicts other parts of the table. I'd reverse your change if I would not trust you to have some senses and revise it yourself.) Naturally next comment of mine would be to question the factuality of the change... :-) --grin 23:27, 2004 Feb 24 (UTC)

I double-checked the change I made, from n^ to J, against the SAMPA site, and then went and hunted down where such a mistake as n^ could come from, so I could justify it before changing it. As for the chart being inconsistent and contradictory, I mentioned on Talk:SAMPA chart, that's to be expected in the idea of such a chart, as SAMPA isn't general language tool like that, but a set of standards for different languages, which aren't the same from language to language (the easiest example to find is Bulgarian SAMPA t' for IPA /tʲ/, versus Hungarian SAMPA t' for IPA /c/, while IPA /c/ itself is c in Greek SAMPA. It seems you have tried to make the chart into an X-SAMPA chart, but X-SAMPA is not SAMPA. --Muke Tever 00:39, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Great initiative with X-SAMPA! The Magnus-tables look very neat. Keep up the good work! --Menchi 08:10, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Image arrangement

Hi Muke: Welcome to WP. Please note that your picture placement on Shanghai results in disappearing pictures (off right of window). The WP standard is for stuff to be viewable on 800 pix wide screens. Thats why most pictures don't exceed 250 to 300 pix wide unless they are wide and not deep and claim most of the width (again about 700 pix max). Its a real pain, I know, so mostly I stick to narrow pictures all on the right, always using the the "thumb" forrmatting rule. If the destination pix is very large I link to an intermediate (600 to 800 pix wide), in turn linking to the large pictures. I also use a larger text size on my browser, about 150pct of normal, so sometimes my formatting does not look good at smaller text sizes. So... could you fix this up with the four horizontally arranged building pictures? To check, narrow your browser window. Hang in and don't get discouraged. Thanks, User:Leonard G. 05:26, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

All right. I wasn't sure exactly how wide it should go for; I was mainly looking to keep it from strangling the text (on my screen before, there would be two or three pictures all stacked left to right, with text trying to crawl down the sides). I was at first going to scatter the images all throughout the article but then decided those four pics probably should belong under the architecture section they illustrate. I rearranged them now. They should still display in a row (on wide screens) but also wrap for narrower screens. —Muke Tever 14:10, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Nice job, it now works much better. I'll prepare another "mixed historical references" that is deeper and will mix better with the others. Generally, as I put the pictures on the right, I tend to make them as short as practical so they will not gobble up vertical page space, since that will cause the pictures to run off of the bottom of the article if a small text font size is used. I was wondering how to set it up the way you did and so it is nice to have an example to work from. BTW, don't be afraid of working with text in an area that you have knowlege or interest in. Even if you want to present an underrepresented side of an opinion (held by you or not), that can be done in an NPOV manner, athough it takes skill to avoid using weasle words ("some people say..."). I think WP does not have enough pictures in many cases (or good pictures in some). Where extensive comments regarding a picture might be considered off topic, I put that text into the image page. Especially if you are the photographer it is not inappropriate to put in some text that would not be appropriate for the article but is informative and in good taste. As an example, see Wuhan, follow the image to the TV tower (first image). Similar for Cloisonne on the imperial headdress and the image in Fireboat. In each of these I inserted personal feelings about the image or circumstances realated to the image that I feel add a lot to the appreciation of the picture, similar to the way a curator in a gallery would add a statement from the artist. Leonard G. 15:15, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

-more-

By the way, another user had removed an image from the Tiananmen Square (T.S.) page because it ran off the bottom (!), so I applied your technique and added three more images to form a nice gallery. I did find out that if the thumb (with text) to the left of a row is deeper than those on the right, then the following (wrapped) thumbs can "catch" on this descent, making an awkward layout. Since this is an effect not only of image size but also of the user's font selection and the user's window width, there is not a general solution for this problem, but some heuristiscs will help:
  • If thumb height is uniform, order titles from short to long.
  • With varying thumb height, order pictures from shallow to deep. The exception to this is the last picture - it may be smaller than the others since it is either the rightmost picture against others in the row or is on a row of its own and at the extreme left (since there are no descenders to catch it) - see the Shanghai article.
  • By performing calculations, it is possible to select a thumb width that will deliver a desired thumb height (exclusive of text considerations), but the original image dimensions must be determined by downloading and viewing with an image processing program that displays this pixel size. It would be nice if this was shown on the image page or if the height of a thumb could be specified. I completed this the hard way and the results look good.
Also, I deleted the leading space before the thumbs on the T.S. page, as a bad thumb description would cause the text drop into blocktext mode that was mostly covered up by other thumbs.
Could you let me know what the function of the control code at the bottom of the thumbs are for? I included these on the T.S. page but do not know what they do.
Also, the Shanghai pictures were all ordered on the right margin, but I use Safari under OSX on the Mac, which has some problems in layout as sometimes an image will cover half a line of text, but it never put the images side by side. I often test using IE 5.2 just to be sure. What browser are you using?
Thanks again, Leonard G. 20:00, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Thanks. The code (I suppose you mean <br style="clear:both" />) I got from Wikipedia:Extended image syntax, and its purpose is to keep text from flowing around the sides, but instead to resume the text at a point after the included box.
The browser I am using is Opera 7.5 on WinXP. —Muke Tever 20:30, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
FYI - check out Talk:Tiananmen Square for a related image layout problem. Leonard G. 20:54, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I put a copy of this on my user talk page and will write up an article floating galleries -- Leonard G. 20:02, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Zormid

Thanks for adding the information to the Zorkmid page, but the formatting you did leaves a huge blank spot in the page. I fixed the formatting so that it looks better than mine did, but doesn't have a huge blank spot. Brian0918 18:48, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Okay. (As may be seen, I'm still unpracticed at moving images around on pages properly.) —Muke Tever 20:00, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Zatricium

Hey Muke, here's a cool quote for you, from Ducas' Historia Turcobyzantina, written in the 15th century:

῾Ο δ’ αὐτὸς ἐνωτισθείς, ὅτι Παγιαζὴτ ἐν χερσὶν ἦν, κελεύσας πῆξαι
σκηνήν, ἐκάθητο μετὰ τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ ἔνδον τῆς σκηνῆς παίζων ζατρίκιον, ὃ οἱ
Πέρσαι σαντρὰτζ καλοῦσιν, οἱ δὲ Λατῖνοι σκάκον...

--Iustinus 19:29, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] De Gradus 1883

Hi Muke,

Thanks for what you wrote on my page:

  • Sorry about being new in wiktionary surrounding, I'll try and behave better in the future.
  • "Formae aliae" is perfect for what I meant by "Syn."
  • I already created a "Vanitas" redirect page: I'll switch over the content of wikt:la:Vānitās to that page.

--Francis Schonken 15:23, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hi Muke,

Thanks for the Vānitās -> Vanitas transform.

Question: how to handle quotes in Latin? I mean, like "Vanitas vanitatum, omnia vanitas" (which happens to be a quote from Ecclesiastes) - Is there a Latin Wikiquote? What if one wants to link it with translations of that proverb in other languages? Is there any "modus operandi" for such things?

Surprised about translatio being a Latin word? It's not in my "Gradus" anyway, and neither is transductio (as a noun, but transducere is), which would seem nearer to how most Romance languages translate translation.

Similarily I'm not completely sure about synonymum being all that "clean" as a Latin word, without having a suggestion for an alternative (the Gradus is a one-way dictionary which makes it a bit hard to look for a word one doesn't know). The only words starting with Syn in the Gradus are synagoga, syngrapha, Synnada, synodus, synthesis.

--Francis Schonken 16:40, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Latin

Hi! Thanks for the "michi" correction - I wasn't quite sure how to explain what happened there. By the way, I assume you are familiar with the Latin Wikipedia if you know the Latin Wiktionary, are you interested in participating in both of them, or just the Wiktionary? Adam Bishop 17:23, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Oh, Myces! Of course! Sorry, I should have realized that :) Adam Bishop 22:19, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Taur

Please check the new entry Taur to make sure it it just as you wish it. thank you. --Wetman 05:34, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Help with the translation of a latin inscription

We (Randywombat, Nirgtstallion and I), who are not linguist any of us, have been debating latin at Talk:European_Constitution#Latin_inscription, and I would like to have your help on this, if you could do that? --83.72.253.210 10:41, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Native Latin speakers?

Greetings, fellow Latinist. If you have second, please cast your two cents in on the discussion of a category for native Latin speakers who are also Wikipedians. --Flex 13:18, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Eumeterate

Hey Muke,

Sorry you don't like my neologism, I know it is poorly formed. I would still like this to be a word, how exactly would you put those roots together to form the intended definition? I'd really appreciate your help, as I can tell you are fairly proficient in languages, especially latin. The only experience I have with latin is science words. Thanks, --Reid 19:14, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the help on the word. I guess lionize could be misleading. I was going for the false idealization of a person or thing across a distance of space or time. I wanted it to imply that the negatives had all been forgotten due to the subject's distance from the idealized object. The idea was to create a word that linked the distance of the subject from the object with the placing of the object on a tabernacle composed of distance (or time). I hope this could help illustrate my concept. I guess I could be michignorant in my thinking that this deserves its own word, but I would like a word to encapsulate this concept of the tabernacle of distance, so I would not need to speek several paragraphs to get my point across. That was where this word was born from. Please let me know if you have any more suggestions, my original plan was to get a greek myth which had this idea in it. I couldn't really think of any. Maybe taking the name of Ulysses' wife and tacking on a eu- prefix? Eupenelopate? Or maybe telamorate? Let me know what you think. Reid 01:09, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

If you want to be glib "absence makes the heart grow fonder" is a part of it. But that wouldn't apply to fifties culture; the expression is for lovers. I want a more general word which can be used for entire cultures, or for things which one holds a partial knowledge for. If I only knew the positive points of a theory, or a lifestyle due to my distance from it, I could idealize it. I would like a word which recognizes idealization as a fallacious state, one that can easily be destroyed by a full understanding of the object. This word would recognize the ignorance of the subject in his or her idealization of the object. This then opens up the potential word for an opposite: to dislike due to a partial misunderstanding.

Muke, I think you have malmeterated me, maybe even antipenelopated.

Reid

Muke, I didn't ask for a lecture, I am aware of what a difficult task this is. I was asking for creative assistance. I didn't begin this word's life by publishing it on wictionary, I didn't lie about its usage. This word was invented by me, but I use it and I see it used a lot on livejournal and myspace. Most people love the definition and see the derivation, albeit a poor one. There is simply no other word with this definition, so I posted. I apologize. Recently, I did find it in use on a Bar-rating websight (ha), if that counts for anything. Please do not reply unless it is a creative idea for a reinvention of this word. Also, references do not need to be immediately known to the general public, nor do the roots. The story of oedipus is only known to most people because of Freud's popularization of it, same with many other myths. I think that is what makes a word stick in my mind: the fact that it has a reference or a creation story. Thanks for your help and criticism, and I am sorry that you have antipenelopated me.

Reid 15:24, 30 October 2005 (UTC).

Hmkay is not a word.

I don't know muke, I only see so many variants for wikt:m'kay, and hmkay isn't among them. I'll let it slide though. This time. Reid 17:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] translation from Latin

Do you think you can do a translation of the following text? We need this for Talk:Ancient Greek phonology#De recte grece loquando. We have already two translations who contradict each other. The question is what Glareanus told Erasmus about the native Greeks he met in Paris; did they pronounce beta as Beta or as Vita? We would appreaciate an expert opinion. Thank you. Andreas 01:56, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Ac Erasmus quidem quâ occasione ad scribendum de rectâ pronunciatione fuerit impulsus, paucis cognitum arbitror. Itaque visum hâc de adjicere, quod in schedâ quadam habeo, scriptâ olim manu Henrici Coracopetræi, viri egregiè docti, doctisque perfamiliaris. Ea ita habet: ‘Audivi M. Rutgerum Reschium, professorem Linguæ Græcæ in Collegio Buslidiano apud Lovanienses, meum piæ memoriæ præceptorem, narrantem, se habitâsse in Liliensi pædagogio unà cum Erasmo, plus minus biennio eo superius, se inferius cubiculum obtinente: Henricum autem Glareanum Parisiis Lovanium venisse, atque ab Erasmo in collegium vocatum fuisse ad prandium: quò cùm venisset, quid novi adferret interrogatum, dixisse (quod in itinere commentus erat, quòd sciret Erasmum plus satis rerum novarum studiosum, ac mirè credulum) quosdam in Græciâ natos Lutetiam venisse, viros ad miraculum doctos; qui longè aliam Græci sermonis pronunciationem usurparent, quàm quæ vulgò in hisce partibus recepta esset. Eos nempe sonare pro B vita, BETA: pro H ita, ETA: pro ai æ, AI: pro OI I, OI: & sic in cæteris. Quo audito, Erasmum paulò pòst conscripsisse Dialogum de rectâ Latini Græcique sermonis pronunciatione, ut videretur hujus rei ipse inventor, & obtulisse Petro Alostensi, typographo, imprimendum: qui cùm, fortè aliis occupatus, renueret; aut certè se tam citò excudere, quàm ipse volebat, non posse diceret; misisse libellum Basileam ad Frobenium, a quo mox impressus in lucem prodiit. Verùm Erasmum, cognitâ fraude, nunquam eâ pronunciandi ratione postea usum; nec amicis, quibuscum familiariter vivebat, ut eam observarent, præcepisse. In ejus rei fidem exhibuit M. Rutgerus ipsius Erasmi manuscriptam in gratiam Damiani à Goes Hispani pronunciationis formulam (cujus exemplar adhuc apud me est) in nullo diversam ab eâ, quâ passim docti & indocti in hac linguâ utuntur’. Henricus Coracopetræus Cuccensis. Neomagi. CI I LXIX. pridie Simonis & Iudæ.

We have now a good translation, so if you wish you could check it and see if you agree with it. Andreas 01:06, 26 November 2005 (UTC)


I looked at it — it all seems good, he was able to find more names than I was... and put it in more natural English as well (it seems he has more training than I do in this). —Muke Tever talk (la.wiktionary) 03:24, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Seventh-day Adventist Church Page

Hi!

I noticed that you have an interest in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. At the moment there is a debate raging on Talk:Seventh-day Adventist Church that has resulted in the main page being protected. The debate has to do with the theology of Graham Maxwell. I would really appreciate if you could drop by and comment on this issue.

By the way, you might want to sign up at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Seventh-day_Adventist_Church to help us make better pages to do with the Adventist Church.

Thanking you in advance, -Fermion 06:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation

Hello, I'm fixing Disambiguation links that route to the disambiguation page "Medium", and one of the flagged entries is from one of your posts on the Furry Fandom Talk: page. Without thinking, I corrected it to what I believed to be the page with the closest meaning. Another editor rightly corrected me about editing another's post, so I thought I'd check with you to see if you would give me your permission to change it or if you would make the change so it stops showing up in the disambiguation database. Thanks! - Dreadlocke 14:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response to my request! I like the idea of a "Thematic Medium" article. There's also Costumes or possibly even Cosplay that might be a "medium" for this genre. Dreadlocke 16:41, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

The Chinese stroke order project of commons will "restart" (work faster) this summer. All help are welcome, even few pics by month :] Yug

I hope to be working on it again. I had taken a long break from la.wiktionary awhile back (which I was making them for) and haven't gotten back to CJK character entries yet. —Muke Tever talk 22:27, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Istanbul (etymology)

If you help with assigning [citation needed] instead of a general tag, that would be very usefull. Most of them are comman knowledge for me.--OttomanReference 03:02, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hasekura Tsunenaga

Hi Muke. Would you know how to recover the text of the latin translation in the image Image:HasekuraRomanCitizenship.jpg? It was a lot of work by User:Iustinus, but it seems someone deleted the text of the translation. Normally a simple revert would do, but strangely it seems this History function is not available for "transit pages" for images coming from Wikipedia Commons. Regards PHG 22:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Latin translation

I note you're fairly conversant in Latin, so I was wondering if you could translate a city motto for me so that I could include it in an infobox: Per Ardva Ad Summum Bonum Civilium. Thanks. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 13:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the further explication. I did find summum bonum myself as well. I've contacted the city in question about the motto, which I found in a book from 1973, so it may not even be official any longer (they certainly do not display it anywhere I've seen). └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 16:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
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