User talk:Mr Christopher

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Contents 1 Signing 2 Cartridge data project 3 Comment... 4 Thanks :-) 5 POV 6 Suggestion 7 State physician impairment programs 8 William A. Dembski 9 Hi there, Mr Christopher 10 Copyright of the 12 steps 11 Starbucks changes 12 Barnstar 13 Mediation 14 Re: Request for assistance 15 Advice, some serious and some not. 16 Is this weird or what! 17 Request for Comment on Dr Gitlow 18 Alcoholism 19 Reply 20 Other Reply 21 Progress 22 Starbucks EL 23 Starbucks 24 So you like coffee big man? 25 Intelligent Design 26 AA Protection 27 Old-school citations 28 You are too funny, sir 29 Ted Haggard... 30 ID 31 Since the Age 32 TMLC

[edit] Signing

When you post to talk pages, it's normal to sign with ~~~~ - this automagically produces your sig. and the date and time. If you just want to use your name, you can sign with ~~~, if you just want the time and date, sign with ~~~~~.

~~~ produces Guettarda

~~~~ produces Guettarda 19:42, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

~~~~~ produces 19:42, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Cheers. Guettarda 19:42, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cartridge data project

You're one of the people I've noticed editing cartridge articles, so I'd like to invite you to join a discussion on creating a template for cartridge data, and generating tables for a large list of popular cartridges. The discssion started due to a comment here:

Talk:.50_BMG

and has been continued here:

User_talk:Avriette#Cartridge_load_data_for_cartridge_template

If you have any comments, or would be willing to contribute data, please join in. If you know of other Wikipedians with a knowledge of cartrdiges, by all means copy this to them as well. scot 16:40, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comment...

It would appear, by virtue of your contribution history, that you are a contrarian. Good for you. I would request, however, that when making comments upon the nature of my contributions, you make an effort to maintain a note of civility, and do not presume to lecture. My Kung-Fu Master always says, "The smallest man in the room is the one of whom you should be afraid." -- of course, his English in not that good. <smile> My point, Grasshopper, is that it is unwise to lash out at persons whom you do not know...because, you never know what kind of chops they have.

I'm not here to make enemies, nor am I here to win a popularity contest. I am here to contribute to an information base that I perceive to be an important educational element, and collaborate with persons who have the same, and only that, agenda. As a professional educator, I would not do that without evidentiary backing. And I don't. Just because I didn't have the reference at my fingertips, does not mean I made it up, or am exercising POV. Don't assume...bad ju-ju every time. Cheers! --Sadhaka 12:43, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks :-)

I hadn't logged in for quite a while, because I found I was spending way too much time here, but I finally decided to log in again since I've been making a fair number of anonymous edits, and I saw the message you left on my talk page. I'm glad someone out there appreciates the effort I tried to put into that article! I'm going to avoid edit-war prone topics for a while, as they can be quite draining, but I wish you the best if you're choosing give it a go. --Icarus 22:21, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV

Hello Mr Christopher, I saw your note on DanielCD's page. I looked at the alcoholism article and some of the other articles that you edited over the past few days. It appears that you put some pov edits in several related articles relating to alcoholism and 12-step programs. We need to look at the articles to see how we can re-word them and find verifiable reliable sources. --FloNight ^talk 10:45, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes there are several related subjects that I have studied over the years. When I came upon many of these articles they read like promotional/sales literature. So I am open to your suggestions. Mr Christopher 12:59, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I think their are valid points on both sides. It's sometimes hard to remove POV without overdoing it and going a little POV the other way. That's why we work together, so we can have others point out our blind spots and create great articles that neither glorify or trash. NGOT... I like it better than NPOV. ;) --DanielCD 14:33, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Communication can be awkward using this message-and-wait system. Sometimes it takes a little patience. --DanielCD 15:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

Mr Christopher, my comment is about the series of changes you made to a group of somewhat related articles. In addition to the article changes, some of the talk pages had long comments where you expressed a strong pov. IMO, instead of this type of comment; it is better to research the topic and add text based on verifiable reliable sources. DanielCD is a kind and polite person that will discuss these issues. : ) Unfortunately, other Wikipedians are not so inclined. Sometimes it is because they are in a hurry and have already discussed the issue with lots of other people before you. Sometimes they are RUDE people : ( that you don't want to push into discussions because it will not be productive towards consensus.

To make my self more clear, I'm not talking about discussions about specific wording or evaluating overall what needs to be done to fix an article. Of course these type of discussions are necessary. I'm talking about engaging in lots of discussions or debates about our personal ideas or research. WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, WP:V together with WP:RS define the material that makes an article encyclopedic. Remember, the truth is not important in this regard. The issue is whether an idea is a majority pov, a minority pov, or a tiny minority pov. An idea can be completely wrong, but if it is accepted by the majority then it will get majority space in an article. Like it or not, this is the rule.

Mr Christopher, this is my opinion and interpretation of WP policy and guidelines. I'm making these suggestions to help you. If these suggestions are not helpful, then feel free to ignore. : )

I left a comment on Bradshaw's article. I'll leave comments on the rest of the articles, too. I might not do them all today, though. I have several other things ahead of it on my to do list. regards, FloNight ^talk 19:45, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Flo, your suggestions are very helpful and welcome. Thanks. I just left you a big ol' reply on your talk page. Mr Christopher 20:33, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] State physician impairment programs

Hello Mr Christopher : ) Sorry so slow getting this to you.

This organization is an umbrella organization for the majority (not all) of State Physician Impairment programs. [1]

This page lets you search for descriptions of each state program. [2]

See Kentucky’s program as an example. [3]

A. Support (self help) group requirements:

• AA
• NA
• Professionally facilitated

B. It requires Support (self help) group frequency:

• Year 1: 3-4 times per week
• Year 2: 3 times per week
• Year 3: 3 times per week
• Year 4: 3 times per week
• Year 5: 2-3 times per week

C. Therapy or treatment requirement:

• Physician co-facilitated group 1 time per week for 2 years.

Each state has a web site listed, also. You can find more details about each state. Hope this is useful. regards, FloNight ^talk 22:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, one more thing. I will send more links your way as I come across them. My bookmarks are a mess so it will take awhile to go through them. FloNight ^talk 22:48, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] William A. Dembski

Hello Mr Christopher : ) I'm working on the The Princeton Theological Seminary section of the William A. Dembski bio. I've made some changes but I'm struck now. Unless someone else knows where to look for the sources, I'm going to have to start reading his work looking for mention of the incidents. Would like to avoid this blind searching. Are you familiar with his work. FloNight ^talk 20:38, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

FloNightI am a Dembski observer but not a Dembski expert and I know that someone at the Pandas Thumb went to school at Princeton at the same time and has written his observations of Dembski there, but I don't recall his name or if his comments there were similar to the Princeton history at the Dembski article. I just got back in town and I have not had a chance to review your latest changes to the Dembski article but from what I saw the other day you are making some excellent contributions there. The whole Dembski/IDC/Dicovery Institute are all mostly very good articles yet they are also mine fields that I approach with a good deal of caution. Mr Christopher 02:18, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello : ) I tread lightly there, too. Looks like I need to make a trip to the library. FloNight ^talk 16:52, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi there, Mr Christopher

I just wanted to thank you for what you said on the talk page of the alcoholism article. Very well put. All these paid professionals in the field of alcoholism want to do is rob drunks of their money and feed them full of lies. They actually help kill drunks through misinformation. But one thing they are not AA counselors. They are alcoholism counselors. Not the same thing. There is no such thing, as there is no such thing as an AA counselor. Thanks again for your honest and keen input into this messed up perspective. Theyshallsee God 19:35, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright of the 12 steps

I just wanted to let you know that, contrary to what you said here, the twelve steps are still under copyright, and that copyright is held by the AAWS. According to U.S. copyright law, any text written after 1922 will still be protected by copyright, unless one of several specific conditions exist, which do not in this case. (The steps were copyrighted in 1939.) Thanks! Sarah crane 17:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Starbucks changes

Hi Mr. Christopher. Thanks for the message. I've responded to your changes on my talk page, and on the Starbucks discussion page. ScottW 01:04, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

		The Editor's Barnstar
		I, Iolakana (aka Kilo-Lima), herby award you the "Editors' Barnstar" for your slightly small but good work all around Starbucks Coffee and getting rid of all the stuff that is out of place and citing those sources. Iolakana

Thank you. Now I'm going to get me a barn and hang this up in there! Mr Christopher 22:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mediation

Thanks for taking this on. Gitlow seems intent on turning Alcoholism into his own personal page. All of the bickering seems to prove the point that there is a lack of agreement about whether or not alcoholism is a disease or not, at least among concerned individuals!Medical Man 16:42, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

My pleasure. And hopefully gitlow will have to relinquish his role soon and start abiding my Wiki standards and practices. It's frightening how far many AA biased medical doctors will go to silence any ideas that conflict with those that keep them in a position of power. The alcoholism thing is just one example. In a strange way I want to thank him for giving the audience such a bird's eye view of how far the AMA/APA and AA biased treatment community will go to choke off information and competing ideas. It is no owonder they have such a monopoly on ideas and such. Forget the alcoholism article, that talk page is where you learn more about alcoholism and the treatment industry.  :-) Mr Christopher 16:50, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Request for assistance

I'm no admin, but I'm more than happy to give you a hand, if you so wish. If you do, please make it clear how you would prefer to communicate. --David.Mestel 20:06, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Advice, some serious and some not.

Copied from my talk page:

Howdee, Flo. Hey I got a barnstar award the other day, I thouht you might be proud :-) And, on a more typical topic, we seem to a have another expert on the subject of alcoholism and he's insisting on writing it from the AMA/AA POV...

Hello Mr Christopher : - ) Cool barnstar! I left a note on the Alcoholism talk page. Think that you are making good desicions. Mediation is a good idea and works if the involved editors all really want to find a solution. Stay positive and do not let the editor get under your skin. Take a break if it gets too heated. In these situations, I try to remind myself that the article is going to be on Wikipedia for a long time. If it does not read exactly right today it is not the end of the world. There is plenty of time to get it right.

Have you seen Wikipedia:No climbing the Reichstag dressed as Spider-Man. This is excellent advice and I will enforce a block on any editor editing the alcoholism article and tries to pull that stunt! FloNight ^talk 21:09, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is this weird or what!

This is weird, if not disturbing. We seem to be dealing with a person who apparently can't be convinced with overwhelming evidence and sound logic. Reminds me of a child who so desperately wants to believe in Santa Claus after being told the truth that he continues to believe.

Perhaps the person is incredibly stubborn, perhaps he's experiencing psychotic episodes, perhaps he feels the need to exert control over others, but for whatever reason he can't or won't process evidence in a logical and rational manner.

I'm really looking forward to mediation.Medical Man 19:18, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request for Comment on Dr Gitlow

Hi, Mr. Christopher. I'm planning on reverting my RFC on DrGitlow on the condition that he joins me and the other interested parties in a non-wiki based forum where we can discuss our differences. I'd specifically like to invite you to join us. I'm setting up a space at the Intellectual Icebergs forum so that this might be accomplished. I seriously think that the linear format of wikis is non-condusive to this kind of argument.

I've added to your entry on the request for mediation, but I think that the RfC process needs to occur first. Can we move this discussion to a threaded forum somewhere? Wiki make following the thread of conversation difficult.Robert Rapplean (aka Mythobeast) 01:03, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

IMO, this RFC is very premature. Please do not take this route. There has been almost no attempt to discuss the issues on the talk page. Remember that in a content dispute both parties feel that only their position is correct. All parties need to be willing to discuss the issues to find a solution. It takes time for editors to work through the issues. FloNight ^talk 01:12, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Let me clarify. The RFC requires you to certify that attempts have been made to resolve the dispute and they have failed. I do not think true attempts to resolve the dispute using WP:Consensus and WP:DR have occurred. It is considered bad form to jump the gun and push for a RFC prematurely. I could be wrong, but I'm having trouble seeing how DrGitlow has broken any Wikipedia policies that would warrent this action. regards, FloNight ^talk 01:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Flo, we are doing the best we know how. Will you please create us a space to discuss some of this? I don't know how. We have an issue where a medical doctor is out of control on the alcoholism article and some of us are at our wits ends as to what to do about it. gitlow removed cited referenced as quickly as they are added if they criticize the AMA or aa based treatment inductry. We've asked him to stop and he doesn't listen, heck he ignored your attempt to remind folks that Wiki has standards. There are no admin/editors contributing to that article so he's thumbing his nose at Wiki standards. Please give us some guidance as to how we should try and resolve this. Mr Christopher 02:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Seems he's at it again?:Talk:E. Morton Jellinek#Disease "Controversy"

[edit] Alcoholism

Thanks for your note. I'd be delighted to work constructively with you on the alcoholism article and look forward to the collaboration. I think we already know many of the areas around which we disagree, but I suspect we can put together an article that is both educational and useful for readers. Where should we start? Drgitlow 19:29, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Christopher, I have no intention of "owning" the AA page, and I am sorry if I have given that impression. the reason for my deletion of the AA and the law section was I felt that it didn't actually give any information actually pertaining to AA as an orgonization (which is the perpose of the AA page) but rather some random trivia revolving around several other subjects, that happened to mention AA. another reason for my edits was the fact that the page is noted as beeing "way too long" and lacking relative information. I am not trying to annoy anyone, but I would like people who log onto the AA page to get information about AA, not hearsay and personal opinions. all of my edits have been supported and referanced, and my reasons for deletes noted in the discussion bord. if I deleted some of your stuff I assure you it was not a personal attack (I have no idea what was writen by you). please inform me of what your philosophy is regarding the "rewrite" of this page, so that we will not butt heads in reviewing the page.Coffeepusher 14:54, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments on how to rewrite this article. I still feel that the law and alcoholism section is misguided, and I will comment on the talk page for my reasoning. I also appriciate the tone of your message, I was afraid that I might have started a editing war with you and your message aliveated that concern.Coffeepusher 16:03, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Mr Christopher, ok. I owe you a appology in both the way I have addressed you on the discussion page and in the error of my personal perseption of you. Your latest post on the AA talk page made me realize that not only have I "owned" the information on the AA Page(contrary to what I stated and really belived) but I have not been behaving well at all when it comes to my interactions with you. I really believe (in error) that there are two ways to see things, my way and people who havnt had my way explained to them properly. I will endevor to keep an open mind on things that I edit, and I really do apriciate the way you helped me out with the edits(you already know spelling is a major hinerance of mine, is there a wicki spell checker?). I look forward to working with you, and hope you consider me an ally.Coffeepusher 00:38, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Hahaha! thanks for the message. School kicked up a notch, and I havn't been doing any edits in a while (school, work, sleep when you can grab it). I havn't given up on the page, but it is nice to be missed.Coffeepusher 02:52, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Thanks for sending me a note. Since we started on my Talkpage, I've replied there to keep it together :) --Doc Tropics ^{Message in a bottle} 23:50, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

PS - I just noticed on your Userpage that you like coffee. Ironically, my feelings about coffee meet most of the conditions for Alcoholism :) Seriously though, I thought your suggested intro was excellent and I was happy to support it.

Actually I don't think I wrote any of the definition, a couple of other folks there wrote it. Yeah as far as coffee goes let's just say I'm in denial! Mr Christopher 04:17, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

LOL about coffee-denial! And regardless of who put the words together, I think you picked the right time and place to drop them in and get the ball rolling in a positive direction. In fact, I think you could really use the current consensus to insert it into the article; there seems to be general satisfaction with the idea of tweaking it a bit (by cutting the ethanol hyphen )and dropping it in. It can always be tweaked again later, but you got some good results to start with :) --Doc Tropics ^{Message in a bottle} 04:32, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah in spite of how nutty it can get we seem to be making progress which I have never really seen there. And even if we fail to get consensus on the first two sentences at least we'll have a better idea of why and then we know what work needs to be done. Mr Christopher 04:34, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Interestingly, caffeine dependence is NOT a diagnosis listed in DSM-IV. However, my understanding from the folks in the addictive disease workgroup for DSM-V is that it will likely be added. Apparently (and this isn't my area of expertise or interest at all), there's a feeling that sufficient and significant research has demonstrated a pattern of signs and symptoms sufficient for the new addition. I think that will be a tough sell, but it will be worth following the workgroup deliberations to see what they end up doing. On the other hand, I suppose I can start a Wiki page for "Caffeine Dependence" and open with "The disease of caffeine dependence is..." just to watch the discussion page. :) Drgitlow 05:44, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Does that mean that my insurance company will cover my coffee-related expenses? Is it possible the government will provide a monthly allotment of coffee beans if I can show a medical need? Or will they try to wean me off the demon bean by forcing me to drink <shudder> tea? I can see a lot of controversy brewing here :) --Doc Tropics ^{Message in a bottle} 05:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Better yet, a harm reduction approach could involve chocolate! I can see the long lines forming at 6:30am for the cocoa clinic. Alkermes would work on a monthly chocolate injection. And docs would have to test the samples brought in by the drug reps. I like this already. Drgitlow 13:59, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other Reply

I think you'll find that I take constructive criticism better than any human you meet. I have a good deal of respect for you, and only wish to come to an understanding between our ideas. Robert Rapplean 01:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Progress

I just wanted to thank you for your support, and your willingness to compromise for the sake of the article. I'm very encouraged by everyone's recent efforts to work together :) --Doc Tropics ^{Message in a bottle} 16:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

We do seem to be making progress. I'm waiting to get Robert and Centrx's thoughts on the #3 you proposed. Mr Christopher 17:01, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

As am I. Have you seen the newest resident of your Userpage? I think he likes you :) --Doc Tropics ^{Message in a bottle} 17:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Indeed I did, nice timing too. I have been introducing my almost three year old daughter to the world of butterflies in our back yard. Monarch butterflies love chomping on our passion vines! Mr Christopher 20:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

(oops, edit conflict)You were totally correct in your comments on my Talkpage and I've reverted myself until we hear from RR. I only made the change becuase Centrx suggested that sometimes it's best to keep moving forward. Since he has more than 10 times the experience of the rest of us combined I'm generally inclined to take him at his word :) However, given our somewhat fragile circumstances I'm more than happy to revert and wait for full consensus. Thanks for helping keep us on track ! BTW - I hope your daughter liked the butterfly. Locally we have a moth that is often mistaken for a Monarch and it's always a pleasure to watch them flutter around the garden :) --Doc Tropics ^{Message in a bottle} 21:04, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

FYI, I'm not bailing from the Alcoholism page. I just feel that I've already said what I have to say about the "Alcoholism as a Disease" argument, and from everyone else's response, I'm obviously alone in feeling that way, so there's no point in repeating myself. Robert Rapplean 23:17, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Mr. C, I added a comment to the vote on Alcoholism Talkpage, but may have been too jetlagged for even such a simple thing as that. Based on Centrx's comments I assumed the vote was about the editors' debate in the Talkpage, but your comment left me thinking the vote was on the content of the article itself. If the latter case I need to strikeout and change my vote since I'm quite in agreement with that. Can you help clarify for me? Thanks! --Doc Tropics ^{Message in a bottle} 16:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Starbucks EL

Hi - thanks for mentioning your comment on the Starbucks talk page. I have replied on that page. --AbsolutDan ^(talk) 00:21, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Starbucks

Hello. Although I completely agree with your edits to prevent Nwe's attempts to use this article as a soapbox, your reverts put you at risk of being offside WP:3RR. Just wanted to give you the heads up in case you had lost track. Next time (if there is a next time) Nwe reinserts the text in question, my suggestion is that we should report him as violating 3RR rather than continuing what is fast becoming an edit war. Skeezix1000 15:00, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate your input and concern. The Wiki Enterprise template states This article is about or directly concerns enterprises, and articles about ongoing enterprises policy must therefore be adhered to. Specifically, unsourced or poorly sourced negative material about enterprises should not be posted to this article or its talk page(s). Such material must be removed without hesitation. The three-revert rule does not apply to such removals. Therefore the three-revert rule does not apply. And I do plan to report him/her if he adds the material back. Thanks again Mr Christopher 15:04, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

oh, that's interesting. Good point. At least now, though, I can't be accused of a double-standard by Nwe, leaving him a 3RR warning on his talk page, without at least also having raised it with you on yours. Skeezix1000 15:35, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] So you like coffee big man?

Because if you do...you're cool in my book. You run a coffee shop or some such? I was just looking through the Starbucks wiki and saw your name pop up, it's like you wrote the history of the company yourself. Shadowrun 02:32, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Intelligent Design

Ive heard that we have several admins who watch the intelligent design talk pages. I'm starting to think this is not true. You wrote a series of accusations calling me a shill for John Umana, admitting that you do not assume good faith in my regard, insinuating that i'm paid to edit Wikipedia and calling my lack of action when it comes to editing this article and instead making my case on the talk pages first "innapropriate". If you wish to discuss with me my views on the Intelligent Design article in that talk area i'll be happy to share them with you. If you wish to attack me personally i'll refer you to the Wikipedia rules of conduct.Bagginator 00:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Sign your damn posts, Baggy. BTW, NPA refers to ad homs, not ad rems. Also, BTW, I refer you to WP:AGF, which states in part, "This policy does not require that editors continue to assume good faith in the presence of evidence to the contrary". You've offered enough damned evidence, Baggy. •Jim62sch• 23:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AA Protection

I've submitted a request of semi-protection. Hopefully they'll put it on soon.--Twintone 02:55, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Old-school citations

Don't make me tell CNN what you and I have been doing once a month behind your wife's back. Wjhonson 07:00, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

That depends. Are you a wealthy evangelist ? Wjhonson 16:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You are too funny, sir

Removed "original research?" Is that what we call WoW/Haggard speculation? You make my day.--Chalyres 23:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ted Haggard...

Is a bottom: http://radaronline.com/features/2006/11/confessions_of_an_angry_hustler_rev_ted_haggard.php
just like all good paladins, i guess?

What is a paladin? :-) Mr Christopher 21:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

You know, what he supposedly plays on WoW?--Chalyres 21:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I am not familiar with WoW either, other than I belive it is a computer game or something that was spoken about on the talk page. I'm not very hip am I? :-( Mr Christopher 22:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

No, but apparently you don't qualify for membership to any "gamer-geek" societies.--Chalyres 22:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

This is true yet I do enjoy some WWII online game every now and then, I have already forgotten the name though...It's a garden variety shoot 'em up. Mr Christopher 22:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and for the record: paladin (character class) --Chalyres 22:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Your opinion would be appreciated: Talk:Ted_Haggard#The_Root_of_All_Evil.3F_interview, cf. User:Odometer's desire to remove the "parking lot altercation". Am I just being overly protective? — Coelacan | talk 07:43, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. By the way, if you share my general intrigue with evangelical scandals, I've got a special one for you. "Carlton Pearson's church, Higher Dimensions, was once one of the biggest in the city, drawing crowds of 5,000 people every Sunday. But several years ago, scandal engulfed the Reverend. He didn't have an affair. He didn't embezzle lots of money. His sin was something that to a lot of people is far worse ..." That link is where I heard it on NPR. — coelacan talk — 05:36, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ID

You need to close the cite and ref tags on this edit. I'd do it for you, but then my sig will appear instead of yours. Guettarda 16:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

You need to close tags. The quote has an open <ref> tag, and an open <cite> tag. You need to follow the <cite> tag with a </cite> tag (otherwise everything after is italicised) and you need to follow the <ref> tag with a </ref> tag (otherwise everything just disappears). Since your sig is in the ref tag the ~~~~ isn't automagically converted to your sig. If I close the <ref> tag, then it would become my sig.

In other words this paragraph:

Although intelligent design theory does not define who or what the intelligent designer is, the personal view of many proponents is that the designer is the [[Christianity|Christian]] god.<ref name=dembski_logos>Dembski: <cite>"Intelligent design is just the Logos theology of John's Gospel restated in the idiom of information theory,..."

needs

''Although intelligent design theory does not define who or what the intelligent designer is, the personal view of many proponents is that the designer is the [[Christianity|Christian]] god.<ref name=dembski_logos>Dembski: <cite>"Intelligent design is just the Logos theology of John's Gospel restated in the idiom of information theory,..."</cite> and a </ref>tag

The article uses <ref name=dembski_logos> instead of the usual <ref> tag. Using this allows you to re-use the ref elsewhere in the article simply by placing <ref name=dembski_logos/> instead of the whole long reference. This has the added advantage of not creating duplicate references in the reference section. Guettarda 17:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Got it and thanks for your help Mr Christopher 17:15, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Since the Age

of five? five years old? not fifteen but five???? i may have developed a little late, but FIVE FREAKING YEARS OLD????? --Chalyres 11:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TMLC

Is TMLC better characterised as "Christian" or "Catholic"? In either case, wouldn't it be more informative to say "conservative Xian/Catholic"? Guettarda 03:06, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

You mean as they are described in the Kitzmiller article? Indeed you are correct. I just changed the Kitzmiller description to match the one found in the Thomas More Law Center article. And thanks for dropping by Kitzmiller. I get so impatient/weary with the IDers promoting the DI POV that I find myself spending too much time being sarcastic so a second and third opinion is helpful. Mr Christopher 03:21, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually I was following the discussion, but I figured that I didn't have anything useful to add to what the two of you had said, so I hadn't bothered to add anything. Guettarda 03:50, 15 December 2006 (UTC)