Talk:Mormon missionary

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[edit] Items from Missionary

Below are some items that were brought up when this article was part of the more general missionary article. Please use these ideas to spur discussion:

This [article has] a number of benefits:
  1. We could go on and on as long as we like about LDS missions
  2. We could better organize the topic
  3. We could go in depth into topics which aren't discussed, such as zone leaders, district leaders and assisstants to the president.— Frecklefoot | Talk 14:48, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
... I would propose a longer view than just what this article contains. Please see my rant about the history of Christian missions above. 1839 marks the beginning of the ongoing "LDS Missionary Effort" -- and there are great mission related events in LDS history, such as the three early missions to England, early apostles' visits in Europe and the Holy Land, the early Indian missions, and the missions to the Sandwich Islands (Hawaii) and Tonga that have had such lasting implications for the church's population. There is also the issue of "gathering to Zion" and the counterbalance of the modern direction to "build the Church in your region." The differences between the early missionaries (in prepardness, financial support, and organization) and what is done today in all the LDS offshoots could be discussed as well. There might be more than one article here. I am going to copy this discussion section to the LDS project page for more input. Comments? WBardwin 00:38, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
... Why don't we start with a modern article -- it could include a very short history introduction, and real descriptions of the actual mission experience -- MTC, companions, door approaches and all that stuff. Maybe a list of modern mission names and locations too.
I think a history based article(s) on the early missions would also be important, but then I'm a history nut. I've been doing some personal research on the three successive missions to England that brought so many English saints to Nauvoo and to the west. And the RLDS had missionaries too, although I've never actually met a modern one. "Missions of the Latter Day Saint Movement"? Quite long and cumbersome for a name. WBardwin 17:51, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Why "Mormon missionary"

Some comments on why this article is named as it is:

What are we gonna call it? LDS missionary, Latter-day Saint missionary, Mormon missionary, Those guys in suits riding bikes? I'd like to nail this down before creating the article. I'll bring this up on the project page too. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:40, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

I can't decide between Mormon missionary and Latter-day Saint missionary (I don't think LDS missionary is appropriate in a title, because it's an initialism, nor is Mormon Elder because it is gender exclusive). On the one hand, Mormon missionary is the most commonly used. But on the other hand, the church would prefer Latter-day Saint missionary, although very few people outside the church actually call them that. A google search of various names gives the following results:
  1. Mormon missionary: 20,500 hits
  2. LDS missionary: 16,400 hits
  3. Mormon Elder: 5,980 hits
  4. Latter-day Saint missionary: 875 hits
  5. LDS Elder": 466 hits
  6. Missionary of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints: 130 hits
  7. Latter-day Saint Elder: 34 hits
COGDEN 17:16, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
"Missionary (Latter-day Saint)?" -- would match the current Mission (Christian) format and tie to the home article. If people are currently typing "Missionary" -- and find this article, it would be easy to refer them from the short section on LDS missionaries which would remain here. Why don't we start with a modern article -- it could include a very short history introduction, and real descriptions of the actual mission experience -- MTC, companions, door approaches and all that stuff. Maybe a list of modern mission names and locations too.

In short, it's named "Mormon missionary" because that is the most widely used term. The other names can redirect to this article. If you feel it should be changed, please discuss here first. — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:48, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be called Latter-day Saint missionary, since that's the, for lack of better words, "politically correct" term. Mormon missionary should redirect to that. Antley 00:48, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

I disagree, as it is a cultural term. I belive Missionaries of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should redirect here. Who has ever asked about Latter-day Saint missionaries? No one would recognize the term, nor find the page in a general search. However, we should have redirects at other obvious places. -Visorstuff 13:20, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Visorstuff. Other terms should redirect to here. Plus, all the confusing ways one could word another term would make it onerous to link to. Most people will use the term "Mormon missionary" and that's why we chose the name. — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:34, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Only the worthy need apply

Concerning this edit, I was about to revert it, but then I remembered something from a Sacrament meeting a while ago. They read a letter from the First Presidency stating that they only wanted higher-qualified young men to serve missions. I was surprised by this, but soon forgot it. The edit I linked kind of mentions this.

Does anyone else have any more information on this? I took "highly qualified" to mean that they had attended Seminary all four years and didn't have drinking problems or smoke.

I still don't like the tone of the edit—"determine if it's right for them to go on a two-year, full-time proselyting mission"—just sounds really bad to me as an RM. Anyone else? — Frecklefoot | Talk 21:04, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Agree the wording could be better. -Visorstuff 21:33, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Request a visit link

I was just going to revert it, but I'm kind of on the fence on this one. Can we leave the "Request a visit" link or should we nix it? — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:52, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

An anon editor just eliminated the 'request a visit', and replaced it with :Missionary Manipulation/Techniques Used by Mormon missionaries, which I just moved here. Both are probably a POV magnet, and I suspect, would result in continued edits and deletions. I think that information only sites would be best. WBardwin 07:01, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
Agree. -Visorstuff 14:39, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Merge

As you may have noticed I have proposed a merge with Mormon missionaries. I'm fully capable of doing the move, but I'm not sure which page should merge into which. In any case, I would like everyone's comments and opinions before any action is taken. --Hetar 07:23, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Agree: I think that the information should be merged to this page and the other page be a redirect. What does Wikipedia policy say about singular vs. plural? Val42 17:19, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Apparently the singular should be the main article, and the plural a redirect. I have completed the merge, as well as put in a request to get permission for some images for this article. --Hetar 04:34, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I've redirected LDS Mission here. There was nothing extra there to merge, except for some POV comments at the end which were not worth bringing here. Kevin 09:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coming of age, see also

There is a section listing coming of age movies and books regarding missionaries, all were removed except for one [1], I added it back. We should either have them all, or none, but what are people's opinions about their inclusion at all? The formatting is somewhat odd. If people want to include them I will probably just make them a list, "see also" isn't really appropriate. - cohesion 18:38, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New articles

I noticed these three articles were added to the "See also" seciton:

The naming conventions for two of these articles are wrong (all article titles should be singular), are capped wrong (e.g. "Returned Missionary" should be "Returned missionary") and the articles are in bad need of wikifying. Please help out if y'all can. Thx. — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:15, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Criticism section and 132.178.227.221

I am again reverting this section which has been introduced twice now by 132.178.227.221. I have no problem with a section like this being created with appropriate NPOV, including citing who the criticizing parties and any bias they may have. However, the citations currently included are not actually related to what is being discussed--see this link which is referenced when discussing the MTC--or of questionable reliability as critics who aren't making blatantly or subtly biased cases based on their own prejudices and personal feelings about the Church. Most of the actual criticism in this section is couched in weasel words to indicate that it shared by a wider group of people than the inserter, which while it may be true is almost completely unsupported by the text or citations. In addition, this user, User:132.178.227.221, has a history of inserting these sort of POV edits regarding Mormonism into various articles including: Homosexuality, Electroconvulsive therapy, Brigham Young University-Idaho, and Brigham Young University. I am writing this to explain my revert and allow discussion if anyone, including 132.178.227.221, disagree with me and wish to support their disagreement. Phil 23:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge tags

I'm not sure how long the merge tags have been up , and I don't see any discussion here. As far as I understand, you can go ahead and merge if nobody complains after a few days, so it should be alright to merge them now. --Lethargy 00:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Update: this was discussed in October at Talk:Mormon Humanitarian Missionaries, but I see the articles were only recently tagged. Perhaps waiting a few more days would be a good idea. --Lethargy 01:02, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Lethargy. I agree with the merge of returned missionary and Mormon Missionaries. However, I think that Humanitarian missionaries would fit more under LDS Humanitarian Services. Since they do not proselyte and are called, so to speak, to fill humanitarian needs, it seems that there is much more similarities to that area of the church. In addition, the Humanitaran Services article needs a ton of fleshing out, which merging the two would accomplish. I don't know how to do merges at all, so I didn't even try to do it.  :) What do you think? Sylverdin 05:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I'll try to look through the humanitarian articles (again) to see if I still think they should be merged (I haven't looked through them thoroughly in a while). In the meantime, since you mentioned you don't know how to merge pages, here is the policy page about merges: Wikipedia:Merging and moving pages --Lethargy 20:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
The Mormon Humanitarian Missionaries article doesn't really explain what they do, it just talks about LDS Philanthropies, humanitarian work, and missionaries in general. it also contains POV wording and only one citation. In its current state, it should definitely be merged with LDS Humanitarian services and be reworded for neutrality. From reading the article, as far as I can tell humanitarian missionaries don't exist, it is just another name given to normal missionaries or members who temporarily do humanitarian work. --Lethargy 21:07, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree. It needs a ton of work. If we merged it into the LDS Humanitarian Services, a lot of the info could be reworded and worked into that article, with a subheading about humanitarian missionaries. So ... then do we wait to merge it? I'm not that familiar with etiquette on mergers.  :) Sylverdin 21:08, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
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