Talk:Morgellons/Archive1

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[edit] I call BS

RE: The marketting theory, there are the following pieces of evidence: - The fact that nobody has heard of this before.

- Sites that allude to a mysterious press release or conference that will occur *after* the release of 'a scanner darkly'

- The extreme close up nature of all photographs showing the mysterious 'fibers'. There is no photography that at *all* shows the fibers 'growing from the skin'.

- It describes perfectly the 'coke bugs' feeling that figures prominently in the 'a scanner darkly' novel.

- None of the 'official' Morgellons websites have had their DNS entries for very long, they have all been registered relatively recently.

- Where is the CDC statemeny? Bird Flue anyone? --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.142.188.166 (talk • contribs).


For what it's worth, the archive seems to show that [1] was up and running as early as July 2002, so if it's a viral marketing ploy, it's been planned well in advance.. --Aim Here 15:08, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Also, the morgellons wiki page has been up since feb 2005.


+++I have to agree. This sounds more like something for an In Search of.. episode than something for Wikipedia to document.04:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced

This material from the article cannot be included without sources. Charles Matthews 09:51, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Dr. Schwartz could lose his license to practice medicine for failure to keep records for about 55 patients and not being able to account for over 1,000 doses of controlled substances. Schwartz did not keep enough records about prescriptions for drugs like OxyContin, a frequently abused painkiller, the records say, and the state also alleges the doctor lied about his records being stolen. In addition, the doctor simultaneously prescribed one patient with OxyContin, an opiate, and Subutex, a substance used to fight opiate addiction , according to records. Schwartz’s records are called “misleading and deceptive” by the state because they say Schwartz was attempting to treat a patient who was addicted to narcotics while simultaneously prescribing the patient large quantities of OxyContin.

[edit] Morgellons or morgellons

Should this entity be capitalized? I'd probably favor the lower case version, since this isn't the name of a person or place. Andrew73 18:52, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

It shouldn't be capitalized. It's not named after a place or person (as for example is Parkinson's disease) and diseases such as influenza aren't capitalized. Sharm 09:19, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it should be capitalized, since all press and internet usage so far, including the AP and the London Times, has capitalized it, so that's the common usage. Herd of Swine 22:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] white crystalline granules

Haven't the "white crystalline granules" generally been thought to be salt, from evaporated sweat and tears? MickWest 05:35, 21 March 2006 (UTC)


They are nothing more than sand or dirt found on the individuals skin.

[edit] This entry must be completely rewritten

This is a FAKE DISEASE. It's perpetuated by the mentally ill who believe they have symptoms that are physically impossible. And, of course, the symptoms are never available for scientific examination -- they "disappear" before scientists can examine them.

This article -- to the degree that it takes this fake disease idea by the mentally ill seriously -- is why wikipedia is considered to be a joke.

It sounds a lot like meth to me.
The article makes it clear that the disease is considered a manifestation of mental illness by mainstream medicine. There's nothing wrong with it as is. Should we not have articles on Christianity, since there is no verifiable evidence of the existence of God and some people consider Christians to be delusional also?--Caliga10 17:03, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


Caliga, You are missing the point. This has nothing to do with Christianity. Its like asking a paranoid schizophrenic to write an article on how the CIA can read his mind and printing it as an article. Because that is exactly what is happening here! The ONLY people who treat this disease as real fall into two distinct categories: 1. those suffering from delusional parasitosis and 2. those looking to make money off of or take advantage of the former. By printing an article making allusions to this being some actual disease you give false hope to those suffering from this terrible psychosis and maybe even keeping them from seeking the actual psychological treatment they need! Wikpedia should be ashamed!

The article as written makes it clear the disease is widely considered a manifestation of delusional parasitosis. Ok, to give you a better example, we have articles on demonic possession, which is often also considered a manifestation of mental illness. I don't believe this article as it stands now reflects a biased point of view. Personally I think 'Morgellons' is in fact not real, from what I've read, but certainly I think the article has a right to be here and the people who /do/ think it's real are entitled to their opinions. Also, please sign your comments.--Caliga10 13:26, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
It's entirely clear that the person ranting about this has no clue what they are talking about. It is entirely possible that this so-called disease does not really exist and is indeed a form of psychosis. Even if so, it still is an interesting phenomenon and therefore worthy of an article - this article makes clear what the current scientific consensus is. However, unless this person has personally investigated all claims and has some godlike abilities, there is no way this person can "know" that this is a "fake disease" except through some psychosis of his/her own. The symptoms described are in no way "impossible," and in fact, they very clearly DO exist - if at least as symptoms of the psychosis most doctors seem to believe this illness is. Furthermore, there are countless examples of diseases that were written off by doctors as imaginary. Lyme disease, Chronic fatigue, Meniere's, and many others... and many of the sufferers of these diseases STILL have to face public skepticism and even skepticism from medical professionals.
It should come as no surprise to anyone if this "disease" is ultimately found to be psychosomatic, but it also should come as no surprise to anyone (except perhaps medical professionals intimately involved with researching it) if in 10 years this is a well-established diagnosis of a real disorder.
At any rate, the article takes no position that it's a real disease and describes the claims of patients and the assertions of doctors with no bias except perhaps towards the current medical consensus. No person without some ax to grind can possibly see the inclusion of the article as inappropriate, and if the content of the article doesn't seem unbiased to them, they can edit it just as readily as anyone else can. Jafafa Hots 08:47, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

This disease is real to the person who thinks they have it (hello... perception is reality) as well as to those who are around this person and are concerned for their health, mental or physical. It may in fact be a delusional illness but to the person experiencing it, it is as real as a tumor or cancer. AND, if they are having to wear diapers because of burned areas or whatever on their butt and, therefore, can't go to the bathroom, it is real to them. Get off your little it-hasn't-happened-to-me-or-anyone-I-know high-horse and explore the possibility that it might be slightly valid even as a mental illness. Cozy Girl

[edit] Taxonomy

Referring to springtails (collembolans) as "insect-like hexapods" is weird, since springtails are insects, and "hexapods" is a synonym for "insects". It's like saying that deer are "mammal-like mammalians".

And the "disease" is pretty clearly imaginary, too.

CarlFink 18:25, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

The current thinking actually places the Collembola inside a grouping called Hexapoda but separate from the Insecta because of their differences with the rest of the insects. See our Collembola article and this news story. DopefishJustin 04:48, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, when I was an undergraduate ... okay, maybe I'm becoming an old fogey. CarlFink 21:43, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

The website, "http://www.morgellonsusa.com" shows photographs that are clearly belly button lint. I know, because I suffer from a terrible case of bellybuttonlintosis.

[edit] A Possible Cause

There is a bacteria that could produce exactly the symptoms described. Acetobacter Xylinum eats glucose (among other things) and excretes strands of cellulose. http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/73/12/4565

The Morgellon's site said the strands they examined were cellulose. http://www.morgellons.org/symptoms.html

Antibiotics have been used successfully by some for symptomatic treatment. http://nurse-practitioners.advanceweb.com/common/EditorialSearch/AViewer.aspx?AN=NP_05may1_npp16.html&AD=05-01-2005 Maybe some of these people have undiagnosed diabetes. High blood sugar would feed the bacteria and damage peripheral circulation, making healing more difficult. Ulcers were thought to be 'stress' until the true bacterial cause was found. I don't think it's fair to label Morgellons sufferers as delusional 209.214.19.143 01:57, 14 May 2006 (UTC)David Nix

65.191.98.11 11:45, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Another suspect might be a pathogenic/parasitic form of Labyrinthulea. The description of the fibrous microscopic masses supposedly associated with Morgellons sounds remarkably similar to this Protozoa. http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/mediawiki-1.6.6/index.php/Labyrinthula Some species are known to attack fish, mollusks, and shellfish. http://www.google.com/search?q=parasitic+Labyrinthula I wouldn't doubt that an opportunistic one would find other host species.


Many mysterious, horrifying diseases have popped up in the course of human history, and they continue to emerge like clockwork. We now alter our environment in ever-novel ways with radiation and chemicals, by physically altering ecosystems, and even with genetically-modified organisms, including bacteria that create cellulose.

"Mass delusions" and urban myths exist, as do loony sources (especially online.) But their associations don't usually include major league baseball players and a proportionately large numbers of nurses and teachers.

Someone mentioned diabetes above. Assuming some legitimate reporting of symptoms and conditions, the majority of those who report having "morgellons" symptoms have tested positive for Lyme. Not surprising if Lyme is truly the fastest-growing disease in North America. But since Lyme causes insidious symptoms all over the body, maybe it makes some more vulnerable to other diseases. And maybe it attacks or affects the pancreas and liver, contributing to blood sugar-related complications in antibiotic treatment as mentioned above.

According to ABC, Billy Koch no longer claims to have ever had Morgellons, it was his wife, making it up. While the above discussion is fascinating, it's still OR, and the article needs to have cited sources. Herd of Swine 15:18, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Slashdotted

This page was slashdotted today, how do you put a traffic thingy up the top?

See Template_talk:High-traffic sendai 06:45, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Some slashdotters are pointing out that it sounds conspicuously like an ilovebees-style viral marketing gag for A Scanner Darkly.

I can see how you might think that, after a superficial look at the sites. But it's not. They take it very seriously. The added section on Scanner Darkly is speculation and OR. I'm going to remove it, unless someone can provide a more authoritative source than "some slashdotters" Herd of Swine 16:15, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Fair enough. I've transplanted the redacted section to the end of the talk in case it develops further. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 17:17, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
There is an interesting thread at: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?threshold=1&mode=nested&commentsort=3&op=Change&sid=186248&cid=15370838&pid=15370838
Another interesting comment at: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=186248&cid=15372744 that says "If you look at the edit history for the article on wikipedia, there is one group of edits made very early on that were 'anonymous' and thus listed the IP address they came from - 66.181.95.90. Reverse DNS on that IP address reveals that it is y2m-gw0.cust.e-xpedient.com Google on "y2m" and the first hit is: www.y2m.com Right on the first page of their website it says: Y2M is a strategic marketing services company that focuses exclusively on the college and recent graduate market."
Can someone call in an editor?
All those edit were was to add this link, which was just one of many similar blog entries. I think these connection are highly tenuous. Even if there was a viral marketing campaign, it's not responsible for the Morgellons publicity - that's being arrange by Ken Cowles [2]. The morgellons.org web site has been around since june 2002. Herd of Swine 19:57, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
HoS, looks like the vast majority of your edits are in regards to Morgellons, do you have any contact/experience with the syndrome outside of Wikipedia? Thanks! - CHAIRBOY (☎) 20:05, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Not physically. Just did a bit of research and somehow adopted this article. I need to get a life :). Herd of Swine 20:12, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Plus, the original Dick reference was to Delusional parasitosis by User:Vaughan in June 2003 [3]. Herd of Swine 20:35, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Leitão vs. Leitao

What's with the "Leitão"? Why not "Leitao"? She does not use the accent on her own web site [4], so what's it doing here? Herd of Swine 16:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Scanner Darkly

The Philip K. Dick book A Scanner Darkly describes the same symptoms to a surprising degree. The upcoming release of a film based on the book has led many to suggest that the recent 'buzz' about Morgellon's may be part of a viral marketing campaign. Evidence cited includes:

  1. The website claims that a "national news broadcast" will occur in June or July. The release date for the film is July 7.
  2. morgellons.org and morgellonusa.com are both registered by a proxy company and contain no contact info.
  3. The first Morgellon's article on Wikipedia was created in February as a link to one of the above websites.

While there were infrequent references to the syndrome on Usenet as far back as 2002, the simultaneous 'ramp-up' on Morgellons and marketing of the film have made some suspicious. For another well known example of this, see the ilovebees viral marketing campaign. (Removed from text for now until some citations can be found)

Actually I don't think "A Scanner Darkley" realy has such similar symptoms. It describes being infected with giant, visible, aphids. What it's really describing is formication with drug induced hallucinations. Morgellons focuses much more on the fibers, the lesions and the physical discomfort, visible insects are generally not involved. Herd of Swine 17:58, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Not just drugs that can produce the phenomena of formication! Consider a bacterial or viral irritation of the meninges. To anybody with a GP who's knowledge does not stretch to giving a coherent explanation for the sensations experienced: is it any 'wonder' that these patients desperately search for an explanation?
Also, to those of us who are familiar with microscopy, the photographic evidence is easy to refute -BUT: people do not (always) report unusual things because of 'faulty thinking,' but because the are having a real experience . To put oneself in their position: a neurological irritation is sensed as if it is on the skin (or at the place ) that that neurological circuit is normally associated. To have such a stimulation with out apparent course is very disturbing.
Show me a specialist that hasn't at some time, seen what he s/he wants to see, and your showing me ...well I'll leave you finish the quote off!
Finally: This is not the place to rename a disease, yet I put forward the suggestion that this might be better termed a 'syndrome' as I suspect the same symptoms (and signs) describes more than one aetiology (including psychiatric). There; if the same thing was published in the BMJ it would rattle on for several hundred words! Reading through some of the previous comments: thank goodness Wikipedia is blessed with such a lot of arm chair amateurs; maybe they should be called upon to design our next generation of nuclear reactors? ;-) --Aspro 23:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed hoax tag

There is at least one listing on PubMed PMID 16489838 that describes Morgellons (or should it be morgellons) disease. Granted, whether or not it is a psychiatric illness (e.g. like delusions of parasitosis) is a different issue. Andrew73 22:00, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Anyone who thinks it's a hoax, please read the references first. People really believe it's a real disease, and it's been around for ages. Herd of Swine 23:31, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Well http://www.sploid.com/news/2006/05/horror_illness.php thinks it could be a hoax. And did you look at the references for real? One was in popular mechanics (not really a medical science magazine, or really scientific for that fact). The 1690 article was about hairs after death, according to the footnote of the link. (As far as I could tell sir thomas was real). The annals of medical history paper is wierd, I can't find it in that book. As a matter of fact, I couldn't find that book at all in our library (the university of nijmegen). The rest of the references are mostly to newssites or morgellons sites. And reference number nine adds very little to the validity of the article actually. It only tells us that the MUPS patients / doctor relation suffers if the MUPS patient isn't getting the anwser he wanted. So, I don't think the references are that compelling. Does anyone with a more medical eye to the case have the time and will to read them all? I will consider this a hoax from now on. --Soyweiser 09:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CDC Position

Is someone going to rewrite this incorporating the CDC's recent statement regarding morgellons, and the taskforce they are forming to investigate it? Or are you just going to argue on the internet? --- 216.255.15.9 18:17, 27 May 2006 (Unsigned comment)

I can't find any reputable source for any CDC statement on Morgellons. There's nothing on their web site. Some sites mention a "task force", but they don't give a source, or a full quote, or any real details. Anyone got a good link? Herd of Swine 18:36, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


Texas based TV station got them to comment on camera, and they indeed said they were forming a taskforce... nothing on the CDC's site yet, however the stations site has a page on it. www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA052206.morgellonsfolo.KENS.12913d3a.html also, officials from the CDC have been returning phonecalls this past week, reported by several blogs,

CDC Communication Specialist Dan Rutz returned our call and has verified that Morgellons is a syndrome, as he refers to it, the CDC is looking into. The CDC has received numerous calls from those citing symptoms associated with what is being called Morgellons Disease and has, in fact, formed a group to explore the syndrome and define it. All angles from environmental to medial to psychological will be taken into consideration. Rutz says, based on information the CDC has collected to date, it's highly unlikely this syndrome was "invented" as some us originally thought. Whether Morgellons is being leveraged in some clandestine fashion to promote A Scanner Darkly is unclear bit if it is, it's sick, twisted and wrong. was found on www.adrants.com/2006/05/fake-disease-created-for-viral-movie-camp.php

"our call"? Who are you 216.255.15.9 ? You should sign in, and sign your comments please. Herd of Swine 06:39, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Internet hoax

**NOTE: Morgellons Disease is not a real syndrome but an internet hoax.**

This started as an internet hoax and has exploded in the past few years because Senator Feinstein fell for it and wrote a letter to the CDC asking for an investigation.

Morgellons Disease is the fruit of conspiracy theory websites that usually branch off into this is some sort of reptile alien trying to take over the world. Don't fall for this hoax.

I disagree. I have seen several news reports with multiple different people including doctors talking about it. --mboverload@ 09:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I have had the symptoms of Morgellons for four years. I thought I was totally alone. I just found out there is a name for it 2 weeks ago. It is not an internet hoax. It is very real and absolutely horrendous. I have been to 9 doctors and not one of them has taken it seriously. The scientist associated with the Morgellon website has received dozens of samples from different patients. They are all similar. He indicates in his interview video that the medical profession is ignoring something that is very real.

Of course it's real, which is why no credible group of physicians believes you or anyone else with this "disorder". Did you read the part where it said that the spike in reports started only when the website was made?67.187.112.115 21:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I mean, fibers erupting from under peoples skin, how could it be any less real?--203.59.166.123 22:41, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Odd Diagnoses

I removed:

  • Demodicosis - Infection by the spider mite Demodex foliculorum or Demodex brevi. Some accounts suggest the mites must themselves be infected with Ringworm fungus to produce disease symptoms in man.
  • Pinworms - A nematode Oxyuris vermicularis (formerly Enterobius vermicularis) commonly diagnosed in toddlers, but, oddly, never in adults. In 1910, a study at a Boston hospital concluded that 10% of all removed appendices contained live pinworms that appeared to have caused the appendicitis. There is no reason to suppose it is any less prevalent today. Modern epidemiological studies suggest most humans harbor this nematode. Its microfilarial larvae are said to become airborne as domestic house dust. (I lost my references, I hope someone else can attribute, clarify or correct these claims).
  • Sparganosis Infection by the tissue-migrating cestode Spirometra proliferatum.
  • [[[Dirofilariasis]]] Infection by the dog heartworm Dirofilaria (latin for "evil thread"). Why did they give it that name? The name alone suggests its discoverer thought its importance transcended the canine realm.

From the "Diagnosis" section, as they seem more like speculative causes, rather than diagnoses that fit the symptoms. They are not generally found in adult humans. Demodicosis and Dirofilariasis are dog specific diseases, Pinworm and Sparganosis (tapeworms) do not account for the symptoms, and Pinworms is generally a pediatric condition whereas Morgellons is generally reported in adults. The section is not on potential causes, but rather what a doctor may diagnose, based on the reported symptoms. Herd of Swine 02:56, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I accept your criticism that my comments were misplaced. But your criticism that Demodex and Dirofilaria are dog diseases, and that Pinworms is a child's disease are flat wrong. That is indeed the orthdox American medical view, but beyond the realm of medical professional dogma in the United States lies the larger domain of scholarly science. In that realm, there is firm support for human hosting of Demodex and Dirofilaria, and human adult infection by oxyuris vermicularis. (unsigned comment by Realmccoy)

If there's literature, then feel free to cite and add this information to the appropiate articles. You might want to read Help:Contents/Policies and guidelines first. --Herd of Swine 07:03, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article Tone

Can someone who is not necessarily convinced that this a real, albeit misdiagnosed disease take a look at cleaning up the article? The introduction does a half-decent job of weaseling out of obvious bias, but the rest of the article treats it as an established fact, though one not accepted by the scientific community. I'll take a crack at it if no one involved with creating the current version wants to.

Just to be clear, a diagnosis of Morgellons as a disease is not (currently) accepted in the scientific/medical community. This is due to the current lack of understanding of the condition (delusional? true parasitic? are the fibers biologicial in origin, or environmental synthetics? etc). The current and ongoing research itself such (Oklahoma State University, others) is accepted (as long as those studies are scientific in method, of course). That is, at this point the scientific community can't definitively say "Morgellons is/isn't (blank)"; however, they can say "we are conducting research to understand the cause of the symptoms, the origin and composition of these fibers, etc". As researchers continue to gather information, they can begin to include or rule out the many possible explainations for this phenomenon. Morgellons is not an established disease, nor is it simply a hoax. The controversy exists in whether this is an emerging unknown disease or delusional parasitosis, not in the endeavor to scientifically determine its cause--and therefore a possible treatment. This, IMO, is what the article should reflect. Peace. --buck 17:21, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unidentified Morgellons Phenomena (UMP)

I saw that they've done some preliminary work in investigating fibers from one "patient" and discovered that the fibers collected do not have a match under the FBI fibers database, the database that is supposed to contain info on all the natural/manmade fibers in the world in order to help the FBI narrow investigations. The fibers also seem to glow under UV light. Does anybody have a link to a good source on this?--65.16.61.35 20:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Please provide us with any documentation you can find. So far nearly all (if not all) objects provided for examination have been identified as known fibers, specks, dandruff, skin, etc.. Until identified we can just call them UMP. -- Fyslee 20:59, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Some more info on the lab results here and on the glowing fibers here Herd of Swine 02:14, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] George Schwartz

The section on George Schwartz [5] seems out of place. The guy is obviously a quack, trying to push some $125 self published book [6]. Should the section just be removed, or re-writted to mention the variety of quacks associated with "Morgellons"? Herd of Swine 01:16, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

The section on George Schwartz is not out of place it is a "Theory". I have received treatment from him and it has helped signifcantly. It involves an intense protocol of anti-parasitics, antibiotics and antifungal drugs (Biltriicde, ivermectin, vermox, Septra DS, Avelox, Diflucan and sulfur lotion and eye drops. This section can be shortened. The early reference to Stenotrophomonas maltophilia can be removed Jade103 23:12, 14 September 2006 (UTC).

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