Talk:Molise

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[edit] External link

I removed ItalianVisits.com since, as can be seen, it's a tiny and very inferior site: a single unfinished page with 6 small uncaptioned photos and 6 links, the purpose of which is to draw people to "I.V. Tours".

Molise is small but we can do much better. I replaced it by a selection of the best sites available; notice for example that Molise Città has over 100 pages and covers the little region quite well. Both provinces maintain sites as well.

The person who added ItalianVisits has systematically gone thru the 20 regions on Wikipedia to add that site to each, without any regard for improving Wikipedia, no attempt even at adding the official site for the various regions. This is therefore a link spam campaign, and should probably be considered vandalism. I'll be warning that user, and if need be (there have already been some reverts) put them on the Vandalism in Progress page. Bill 10:07, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

I see that Italian visits ItalianVisits.com has returned to the page, and i think that is a good decision. The little description and the pictures are useful.--964267sr 03:52, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rebuttal to Bill Thayer

Bill, I am the "someone" who added links to ItalianVisits.com on the various Italian Regional sites - and I don't think I was commiting "link spam" or engaged in vandalism when I did so. ItalianVisits.com is a serious endeavour being undertaken by my daughter, Jesse Andrews, who for the past 2 years has been living in Praia A Mare, in the northwest region of Calabria. My other daughter, Arianna, is attending university at the University for Foreigners in Perugia, and also contributes to the ItalianVisits website when she can.

If you look at the section on Calabria, you will see how much work and effort has been put into cataloguing towns and villages that are virtually unknown to English-speaking people, whether they are travelers or tourists, or people who have a curiousity about the area. You will note, I hope, the abundance of wonderful photographs that compliment the text, and present our viewers with images that otherwise would not be available. Incidentally, you should also note the link to Wikipedia resources whereever and whenever there is material on Wikidpedia about a region, town or other locale. We are as committed to Wikipedia as you are.

Jesse has created a vessel into which more information is being added every day. I just spent 15 days in Umbria, for instance, and added pages for Perugia, Assisi, Spello, Bevagna, Gubbio and the Regional Park at Colfiorito. Other contributors, like Katherine Lavallee, have added information about other towns in Tuscany. Such contributions are solicited eagerly so that we can fatten the content on the site.

ItalianVisits.com is hardly a come-on for selling tour packages, although we are trying to attract people to "unknown" parts of Italy, and in so doing, get some business to those out of the way places for local restauranteurs, hoteliers, and others in the travel business. If you are aware of what is going on in Italy now, you will understand that the economy is depressed, owing largely to various difficulties it has and is facing as it tries to integrate with the EU, and as it attempts to compete in a global economy. So, having information for travelers can not be the sine qua non of "link spam". If you look at all the external links listed in the Umbria section of Wikipedia, a number of them are active promoters of travel to the Region. Even in the various regional sections of Italy where you posted identical comments to the comments you made here there are links to sites that promote and facilitate travel. Should all of these be removed? And if so, by whom and under what (hopefully) reasonably well-defined policy?

You can coin or use phrases like "link spam", and "cyber vandalism", or other terms of denigration, but I think you, and others who "worry" about Wikipedia, should be careful not to sit on Wikipedia with a holier than thou attitude, deleting other people's contributions, unless a more thorough investigation is done into the content, and sometimes into the motives and objectives of their creators. Many people spend a lot of time, money and energy trying to do good without much reward beyond the satisfactions it provides. This effort to "do good" is manifest on your site Bill, at least, so far as I can see, and I commend you for it.

I'm a bit more than a little chagrined about what you have done Bill, and about how you have characterized ItalianVisits, but I hope we can discuss this if you think I am making an untenable argument in favour of allowing us to post links to the IV website, without fear of having them removed by the over-zealous.

Regards Vian Andrews Vancouver, BC July 28, 2005

[edit] Another link removed

I removed the link Larino in the Molise for two reasons:

• it's not about Molise, but just about Larino: it belongs under Larino. And sure enough that article already includes that link, quite properly.
• the site is kaput. Notice that Google returns it only among the "supplementary results" — which Google usually does only when a site which had been up for a while then disappears.

Bill 09:07, 23 July 2005 (UTC)