Talk:Mission District, San Francisco, California

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Contents 1 Graffiti/Crime 2 Photos 3 Surenos 4 History, Polish Club 5 Why I removed the link to burntwire.tv 6 Eureka Valley -> Castro

[edit] Graffiti/Crime

"graffiti are ongoing problems in the Mission District." -Maybe some people think so, many others consider it to be a wonderfull part of the urban landscape.

Have you ever been to the Mission district before? The graffiti is EVERYWHERE. I went through 20th and 28th streets in Mission, and graffiti is tagged on almost every garage door and sign. The whole place doesn't look good with all those tags, and it is difficult to find even one block without graffiti. The Mission district is also the center of Norteño gang activity. Not many people are obviously Norteño gangsters, but you could see a lot of "street" people everywhere. Also, you said that the Mission is a "wonderfull part of the urban landscape,". Where else can you find a place with different variations of artists work splatered on everything?

Well, the Mission District is not as bad as some other places in California like some parts of L.A., and the income level doesn't fall below $30,000. — Stevey7788 (talk) 23:05, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Photos

This page needs photos. --Viriditas 13:00, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Surenos

THE MISSION IS HOME FOR ALOT OF SURENOS GANG MEMBERS ARE NOT BAD PEOPLE THEY DO WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO I SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE WE DONT STEAL CARS AND WE DONT ROB PEOPLE WE ARE EDUCATED AND NOT ALL OF US SELL DRUGS WE HAVE A BAD RAP CAUSE OF THE MEDIA AND CAUSE OF THE MAYOR HATES US CAUSE OF SUM OF THE BEATINGS THAT GO ON IN OUR NEIGHBOR BUT THATS CAUSE OF THE RIVAL GANG THAT COMES TO TRY TO OUT DO US SO WE DONT REALLY CARE IF PEOPLE SEE US AS BAD BUT DONT BE SCARED WE DONT LOOK FOR PROBLEMS AND WE DONT PICK ON PEOPLE. --preceeding unsigned comment by 169.199.140.249 AND WE DONT KNOW HOW TO USE PUNCTUATION BUT WE CAN SPELL OK WELL USUALY BUT THERES THIS BIG WAD OF GUM ON THE CAPSLOCK KEY ON OUR KEY BOARD

[edit] History, Polish Club

Viriditas, can you please provide an external source that shows the Polish Club as a noteworthy piece of the Mission District's history? There are many important landmarks in the Mission District, but I do not believe every one deserves a place in the History section of the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by jonemerson (talk • contribs) 18:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC).

When it comes to documenting the local, colorful, and diverse history of the Mission District, it helps to examine the evidence. Unfortunately, the history of the Mission District is woefully incomplete, and in attempting to present a "History of the Mission District", WP:NOR and WP:V are our guiding policies, not WP:N (keep in mind, WP:N is not even a policy whereas WP:NOR and WP:V are established). For example, we can document that the Polish Club of San Francisco (an organization that traces itself back to a San Francisco fraternal society formed in 1889) has been at 3040 22nd St. in the heart of the Mission District for 80 years (since April 19, 1926) serving as a nonprofit charitable organization for the Polish community, hosting everything from funeral receptions, Polish observances, conversational Polish language lessons, and promoting Polish culture through art, dance, food, music, and theatrical performances. Mayor of San Francisco, Gavin Newsom, has officially recognized and commemorated the importance of the Polish Club in the city through a proclamation [1] and The Examiner has written a recent (2006) article about the club. [2] A 1929 photo of the building can also be found in The San Francisco Historical Photograph Collection [3] . Please remember, the Mission District has a rich history that includes people from all ethnic groups and nationalities. —Viriditas | Talk 12:31, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

If the Polish Club was so important, I believe it would have a Wikipedia page of its own. Why doesn't it? Can you site other encyclopedic sources that consider the Polish club one of the top 10 things thats happened in the Mission's history? Because right now it's one of 6, maybe 8, different facts in the History section, and I feel that's enormously out of context with its relative importance. I can definitely see the Polish Club being mentioned in the Culture section, however. Jonemerson 05:43, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Another option is to move the Highlights section right after the History section, since it's a good section. And then we can add Polish Club as a bullet point with even a few more sentences about it, such as Gavin Newsom's recognition. What do you think? Jonemerson 06:00, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I think I don't understand your obsession with the Polish Club, nor do I see the validity of any of your arguments against inclusion. The fact that the subject is a red link or its inclusion in a tertiary source is irrelevant. I've already discussed the topic above, so I don't see where you are going with this. The history of the Mission should be expanded, not reduced. The Polish community can also be mentioned in the culture section. —Viriditas | Talk 08:00, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I could write a biography of my life, and in that biography, I could mention that I took Beaches, Coasts and Rivers my 4th year in college. It's an interesting point, and perhaps I know something more about oceans because of it. But if my biography was only 1 page long, there's more important things to say. It wouldn't belong. And if my biography got up to 20 pages, it still wouldn't make sense (I really don't know much about geology -- I didn't go to class after the mid-term). At 100 pages, still it wouldn't belong... even though it's STILL mildly interesting. Only if my biography got up to 500 pages would it perhaps make sense to add. My point is -- right now we're at the 1 page stage of the history of the Mission, and right now mentioning the Polish Club right between the 1906 Earthquake and the immigration of hispanics doesn't make sense. It doesn't rank up there in importance. Once there's other more minute details in the History, it would make sense. But it's inaccurate and possibly in violation of NPOV to mention it amongst many other very important historical events because it elevates the importance of the event above it's actual importance. Jonemerson 08:25, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

On the contrary, it makes perfect sense to describe the history of ethnic diversity in the Mission, and to fill in the missing gaps. Although I would have to revisit my sources, IIRC, the Mission had a strong Irish and Italian community during this time period. It is in no way inaccurate or a violation of NPOV to describe the history of the Mission. What do you know about the Irish and Italian community during this time? —Viriditas | Talk 08:52, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why I removed the link to burntwire.tv

Take a look at this "vlog" (omigod, just what we need, another goddamn internet neologism); none of the entries on the current front page have anything to do with the Mission.

The thing is, everyone wants to get their blog, vlog, etc., in these here articles, and pretty soon, before you know it, they're all filled up with flotsam and jetsam. Only links relevant to the subject of the article should be included. (And to reply to the anonymous editor's message left for me, the link on ATA should stay because it's mentioned in the article as an important Mission institution.) +ILike2BeAnonymous 03:36, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eureka Valley -> Castro

Viriditas, ILike2BeAnonymous, what do y'all think about us renaming the bordering neighborhood of Eureka Valley to The Castro? (Just within the Mission District article.) Eureka Valley is hardly used as a neighborhood name anymore, and if it is, people would still call the Church Street border as the border with the Castro. (Wait, I'd consider the border on Dolores... but what's the official border?) I think the fact that the Eureka Valley page on Wikipedia is hardly existent shows that it'd probably be more educational to call the border neighborhood The Castro. Jonemerson 06:23, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I found an SFGate (SF Chronicle) map that shows the border along Dolores: [4]. I'll update that part. Interesting to note that SFGate also refers to the neighborhood as The Castro and not Eureka Valley. Jonemerson 06:35, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm no expert on San Francisco socio-geography, but my impression has always been that Eureka Valley is the "real" name of the neighborhood—the one that actually appears on maps, for instance; one rarely, if ever, sees "The Castro" printed on a map. The Castro is the de facto informal designation for (more or less, not precisely) the same neighborhood. I prefer to use the older, more formal designation (Eureka Valley). +ILike2BeAnonymous 06:40, 3 December 2006 (UTC)