Talk:Mirandese language
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[edit] Connection with Asturian
The connection with Asturian seems to be a tender subject. The two entries might be compared, with mutual advantage. --Wetman 06:12, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
- well. I saw this [1] and it has comparisons with Asturian. I did a very small paragraph with the differences (I dont have much time now). You can add more info. That article/site is in Mirandese. -Pedro 02:23, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This just plain does not make sense: The main differences between Mirandese in Portugal and Asturian in Spain are the dominant languages in each region,. I would correct it, but I can't work out what it is supposed to mean. --Taejo 09:24, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
- Yes it doesnt make sence. I meant: these two languages are influenced by Portuguese (Mirandese) and Spanish (Asturian). And this fact marks a big difference as Spanish and Portuguese are two 'grown up' languages, and "give" a lot of lexicon to the smaller languages. -Pedro 11:30, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] About "Garrafa"
I'm an Asturian speaker (from Spain) and we use the word "garrafa". It isn't a good example.
And i am not asturian speaker (i am from aragon) and i use garrafa too...actually none of those words were good examples as all of them are used both in spanish and portuguese
I have removed said examples because they are obviously inaccurate. I've heard both carro and coche in Spanish, and the word for "computer" in Spanish is computadora. Grandmasterka 08:33, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
The usual term used in Spain for "computer" is "ordenador", not "computadora"; used in Latin America --Dantadd 14:39, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 'Mirandese remains very conservative'
"Another difference is that Mirandese remains very conservative, while Asturian has changed. " It should be explained in what sense Mirandese is conservative with respect to Asturian... phonology?... lexicon?... grammar?... FilipeS 11:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
The whole article needs a rewrite. I think I even remember reading a better article here a few months (years?) ago (no offense to people who worked in it ever since). The sentence, as some other ones, makes indeed no sense. Both Mirandese and Asturian (meaning the Astur-Leonese dialects spoken in the Asturias Autonomy) surely changed a lot, and I doubt anyone has enough knowledge (of both the dialects and older accounts of Leonese) at this point to make such a statement. I should write a new version of this article as soon as I have some time. 19 May 2006.
[edit] Dialects of Mirandese
The article currently states:
- Three variants of the Mirandese language exist: "Border Mirandese", "Central Mirandese" and "Sendinês Mirandese". Most speakers of Mirandese also speak Portuguese; some of these speak Spanish as well.
But Lindley Cintra, in Nova Proposta de Classificação dos Dialectos Galego-Portugueses, speaks of riodonorês, guadramilês, mirandês and sendinês. This needs to be checked. FilipeS 21:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Lindley Cintra was admitedly far from being a specialist in Mirandese, and his few lines on this issue are dated (the work was written in the 60s). 'Riodonorês' and 'guadramilês' are two localects spoken (I'm not sure if they still are today) in two villages (Rio-de-Onor and Guadramil) in the Braganza county, at least 50km away from the Mirandese-speaking area. Those were indeed described as Astur-Leonese dialects, but not of the Mirandese branch. Following the studies develloped by the Linguistics Centre of the Univ. of Lisbon and a panel of local experts to get the 1999 law and Ortographic Convention done, Sendinês was considered to be with no doubts a Mirandese dialect, as the main differences lye in a few phonological processes observed in other villages (only never at the same time) and the historical accounts for huge lexical differences were proven unreliable. 'Raiano' is the name given to those dialects spoken in the land border ('raia seca', as opposed to that established by the Douro river), with a deeper castillian influence, namely in the vocalic system and in the lexicon. Although the text you mention wasn't written by me, there are many accounts of reliable authors dividing Mirandese in those three dialects, if you can read Portuguese (which, from your nickname, I guess you can). I tried to find one in English, but had no luck, as all the results headed to Wikipedia or text taken/modified from this article. 19 May 2005
[edit] Free text
To streamline the Portuguese language article, I am deleting the following text from it, and replacing it with a link to Mirandese:
- In the municipalities of Miranda do Douro and Vimioso (northeast Portugal, near the border with Spain), three dialects closely related to Astur-Leonese are spoken. They are called Mirandese (proper), Raian, and Sendinese, but usually designated by the generic term Mirandese in scholarly work. In 1999, the Portuguese Parliament recognized Mirandese as a language, co-official with Portuguese in the municipalities where it is spoken. A group of linguists from the University of Lisbon has set up an orthography for Mirandese, based on the spelling of Portuguese.
Feel free to reuse it here, if you find it useful. I was based on this article, anyway. FilipeS 17:17, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
