Talk:Miracle on Ice

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Contents 1 "near-impossible odds" 2 U.S.-centric coverage 3 Disputed merge 4 Factual questions 5 Miracle on Ice sports venue

[edit] "near-impossible odds"

From the main article. Any data on what odds the US team were being quoted at to substantiate this claim?

[edit] U.S.-centric coverage

I have tagged this article with {{Template:Globalize}} because I believe it is written entirely from the American perspective. Andrew Levine 05:46, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Dear Andrew, The Miracle on ice was a life changing event for the Americans. The only people who really care about this are the Americans. Sure the Soviets care about it but they don't go back to it and remember it like the day Sputnik went into orbit. We remember this day like we remember the day Neal Armstrong landed on the moon, JFK was assassinated, and September 11th, it is a life changing event. Why would you globalize the JFK assassination, you wouldn't it was an event that only the Americans felt the effects of. This issue should remain from an American perspective. Sincerely, My_hero_is_Mark_Johnson

Title implies American perspective I also disagree that this needs to be globalized. "Miracle on Ice" is not so much about the American perspective, but about the American Hockey Team. Certainly, if the title of the article were "1980 US Olympic Hockey Team", there would be no expectation of detailed discussion of other hockey teams. On the other hand, if the title of the article were "US-USSR Olympic Medal Round Hockey Game, 1980" it should show both the US and USSR perspectives. Some articles will simply be about American events by Americans. The phrase "Miracle on Ice" probably means nothing to most of the world anyway. - David R 16:32, 15 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Disagree with tagging, based on nature of the article: Ice hockey at the 1980 Winter Olympics requires a neutral approach, as would a strict technical sporting discussion of the game itself, but a discussion of the American socio-cultural phenomenon that the US-USSR game became as the "Miracle on Ice" requires a US-focused approach. If you're going to tag this with Globalize, you might as well do the same for every domestic sporting competition worldwide, as well as most broadcast media, and a good chunk of the history articles. I'll add a bit of info on the Soviet team's reaction to the game itself once I get a chance to go back to the Coffey book for sourceable details, but remember that in the USSR public reporting and discussion of the match were essentially quashed by the authorities -- the result didn't exactly fit the superiority narrative that the CPSU had in mind for their Olympians. Once I do that, I'm going to remove the Globalize tag. VT hawkeye_{talk to me} 15:48, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

In general, I also disagree with that tagging, but I have to say it is noticable that of all the images on the article, only one of them even shows Soviet players at all. The Soviet aftermath section could maybe use a photo (if one exists) of the Soviet team on the ice immediately after the game ended, or possibly the Soviets receiving the silver medal at the awards ceremony. Also, a photo (if one exists) of the Soviet head coach or maybe the team on the bench during the game that represents their intensity or lack of emotion or whatever, would help balance the article a bit.--Kharker 15:40, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed merge

I disagree that this should be merged. That would be POV, as the term "Miracle on Ice" refers only to the American victory, not to the entire ice hockey competition. Plus, the Olympic ice hockey articles (should) have a consistent format, listing winners, scores, etc. and a brief summary of any important events. – flamurai (t) 20:16, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

At least all the information that was added around a day ago should be removed from Ice hockey at the 1980 Winter Olympics article as already existing in Miracle on Ice (the link to Miracle on Ice was there for a long time, but despite this someone decided to duplicate info).I totally agree, that the main info presented about Olympic Tournament should be:winners, scores, matches, venues, etc. Cmapm 20:25, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. However, there should be a short summary of the Miracle on Ice in the 1980 article, with a link like Main article: Miracle on Ice. – flamurai (t) 20:38, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, but a short summary not only of one match (as I understand, namely the final is called Miracle on Ice), a short summary of all the competition, accompanied at least by the results table. Cmapm 20:42, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Factual questions

There are a number of factual errors in this article. Firstly, the United States tiesd with Sweden 2-2 in the preliminary round of the Olymics and not Finland. Secondly, Ken Morrow did not play for the New Jersey Devils and was not a teammate of Fetisov and Kasatonov. He won his Stanley Cup titles as a member of the New York Islanders.

Okay, I can confirm one of these. An article states that Morrow skated over to Fetisov before an NHL game where Fetisov was playing for the Devils, but it does not indicate where Morrow was playing! This was one I misread. A quick check of Morrow's career places him with the Islanders, so I'll correct that. The other is more dicey - I read a source which said that Finland hadn't lost coming into the medal round, and they were in Group B with the U.S. meaning that the draw had to have been against the U.S. But I can't find the source now, and I've found one non-authoritative source (an email from a random) which supports a 2-2 draw with Sweden in the opening round. I'm going to call the library tomorrow and see if I can get confirmation. - Scooter 05:54, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Too much confusing information...why can't anybody just have the damn scores listed so I can write this article? I have a paper from the time which gives the score for the Sweden-Finland semi-final match as 3-3. Until I can get some better confirmation for any of this, I'm removing the disputed information. I just can't back it up, and it's very frustrating. - Scooter 06:07, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The article says that in the medal round, each team would play each other team, but makes no mention of a USA-Sweden game. Did USA play Sweden in the medal round, and what was the result, or if not, why not?

• For teams which were in the same group in the preliminary round (USA-Sweden and Russia-Finland), their preliminary round game was counted in the medal round standings. USA tied Sweden 2:2 in the preliminary round. Should we explain that in the article? Andris 15:18, Jun 25, 2004 (UTC)

Also, the article says the only team that couldn't win the Gold Medal going into the final day of games (that is to say, Feb. 24, after the USA/USSR game) was Finland. How is this the case? If USA had lost to Finland, and Sweden and USSR had tied, all teams would have had 3 points in the Medal Round (Sweden 0-0-3, others 1-1-1). I would think Sweden would be eliminated first due to having no actual wins, but in any event the tiebreaker would almost have to come down to goal differential and Finland could win that just as much as the other teams.

The tiebreaker was total goal differential (not just the medal round differential). The USSR came into the medal round beating teams like Japan and the Netherlands by double digits, and in fact wound up +40 in goal differential. So, unless Finland beat the US by a tremendous, record breaking score, they would in fact wind up with the silver medal.

[edit] Miracle on Ice sports venue

I do not know what sports venue the Miracle on Ice game took place. Did Lake Placid have a sports arena or was the Ice Hockey venue temporary?

Lake Placid actually had two arenas for the 1980 Winter Olympics. Some games were played in the old arena built for the 1932 Games (known as the Olympic Rink), while others — including the medal round — were played in a new, larger arena (called the Olympic Arena). There was also a rink without seating that was used for practices, called the U.S. Ice Sheet. The 1932 rink is now called the Jack Shea Arena, while the 1980 facility is now named the Herb Brooks Arena. — Michael J 02:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Should there be an article about this Jack Shea Arena? It is not a well-known sports venue and I do not know what its seating capacity is. Jim856796 05:12, 26 June 2006 (UTC)