Category talk:Michigan state highways

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[edit] Sorting

Any idea why the pages don't sort into numerical order? Why is M-11 falling into the same grouping as M-108 and M-115? Shouldn't it fall after M-10? CONN M-13 has the same sort value of "013" as M-13, but M-11's sort value of "011" puts it out of place? Just curious.

[edit] What is this category for?

Yesterday, I came across U.S. Highway 2 Business (Ironwood) in this category. I removed it as I thought the category should describe routes designated as state highways. User:Imzadi1979 readded the category with the comment that "Business Routes are under MDOT jurisdiction and are State Trunklines in MI". However, by that criteria, Interstate Highways, and U.S. Highways in Michigan are also under MDOT jurisdiction and are part of the state trunkline system.[1] The category is NOT named "Michigan state trunklines". Personally, I think it should contain only routes designated as state highways (or those relatively few "undesignated" state highway routes). older≠wiser 13:15, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, you raise an excellent point. User:Imzadi1979 is correct in that all "I-", "US-" and "M-" numbered routes in Michigan are under the jurisdiction of the Michigan Department of Transportation, but then again, if this category was created to solely for the so-called "M-numbered" routes to the exclusion of the Interstates and US routes, the others would be out of place. However, in my own opinion, the phrases "Michigan state highways" and "Michigan state trunklines" are purely synonymous. State highways in Michigan are those highways maintained by the state, while the term "trunkline" is more of an internal, DOT term they used instead of "highway." About the only way I've ever seen the non-Interstate and non-US Highway routes delimited is to call them "M-numbered routes," as clumsy as that title may be. In the end, the term "Michigan state highway" is a rather generic term that, in itself, does not limit one to just the "M-numbered routes." If that was the original intent of this category, possibly a better or more specific name should have been chosen. Again, that is my take. CBessert 16:16, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

OK, if we hold that criteria consistently then shouldn't the contents of Category:Interstate highways in Michigan and Category:U.S. Highways in Michigan be instead in this category? Perhaps there should be a separate category, something like Category:Business routes in Michigan? older≠wiser 22:30, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

You are correct, that Interstates and U.S. Highways in Michigan are just state trunklines with a differently shaped and/or colored sign and, as such, should be included in this category, depending on your interpretation of the original intent of the creation of the category. (This just sounds overly bureaucratic, doesn't it?) I still don't have a problem with a category listing for just those "M-numbered" state trunklines in Michigan, but I also don't think there's a good title for such a category that isn't also clumsy or "jargony" (to coin a word). Unfortunately, Wikipedia is largely maintained by folks outside of the inner circle of those who work with these features on a daily basis and is also geared toward a general audience. So it comes down to this: Do we want to be technically correct or do we want to these articles/categories to be understandable by the general populace? I'm all for the former, but that would likely sacrifice some of the latter and require copious of work on Wikipedia to rework countless articles so that they are technically correct. Clear as mud? CBessert 07:13, 29 November 2005 (UTC)