Talk:Mermaid

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Heraldry and Vexillology Portal Mermaid is within the scope of the Heraldry and vexillology WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of heraldry and vexillology. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale. (FAQ).

Contents 1 The Merman's Tailfin 2 "Completely Safe" 3 Gabrichidze's Mermaids 4 Etymology 5 Production and costumes 6 Merfolk Redirect 7 Sexual Reproduction 8 "Aquatic Ape"

[edit] The Merman's Tailfin

I do not know if anybody asked about this yet, but how is the tailfin of a merman or mermaid alligned? If you were to view a merman from the front, if the tailfin is alligned sideways parallel to the shoulders, it is similar to that of a dolphin. If, however, the tailfin is alligned at right angles with the shoulders, then it is similar to that of a fish. Are there any legends that specify which way the tailfin is alligned?

DaDoc540 04:48, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I've never seen any depiction that shows the fin vertical like a fish, which suggests the dugong/seal origin for the story. KarlM 00:16, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Completely Safe"

I reverted the last edit. The edit added the following external link at the top of the list:

I object to the description of it as "completely safe." I would define "completely safe" as being something I wouldn't hesitate to send a young child to. I would not expect such a page to include material like this

"She's naked and continually wet, with long hair and bare breasts, but she lacks the vagina that (perhaps) dominates the dreams of the sex-starved sailors who encounter her..."

"Actual mermaid stories are fascinating for precisely the opposite reason: they're the most complicated form of male sex fantasy. Mermaids are sex objects on prima facie grounds, but they're missing some salient parts below the waist."

"In The Little Mermaid, she trades her tongue for a vagina, but is forced to endure terrible stabbing pains. She also bleeds from her feet when she walks, adding a layer of the ever-popular menstrual theme to an already overcrowded set of symbols."

"dugong, a sea lion species whose females have hooter-like mammary glands ... If the mind-blowingly ugly dugong somehow stimulates your libido ..."

Now, there's nothing wrong with the content. Wikipedia is not "safe," and its links do not need to be safe. But there's something wrong about misrepresentation. If a link says "completely safe," it should resemble that description.

I could have just removed the "completely safe." But I thought the misrepresentation should be noted (in case it becomes a pattern) and others brought in to discuss its re-inclusion. I also object to a mediocre cryptozoological article at the top of the external links, but this is a much lower-order objection. In fact, I wouldn't have changed it just for that; I figure, good references will bubble up and bad ones bubble down over time.

Lectiodifficilior 03:51, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• I would understand removing the image if you WOULD NOT LIKE or would think that it does not fit there. to avoid "editors war"; If you think that me placing it there is a problem I can email some of my friend and they will place it there(hence it will NOT be listed y the artist; in fact the person who writes from this account and Nick Gabrichidze as physical persona re not necessarily a same person.

The copyright can be changed for "fair use" if it is more convenient. If you feel like IMAGE does not fit there then tell me and I will forget about this page(I am not a this page creator after all and I respect the hard work of people who did create it). Otherwise I will change a copyright status and will place image back there(or someone to do it for me if that bothers you) within a few days OK? Please remember that ADDING content to wikipedia is better then removing staff. May be this on-line encyclopedia seems like full pot for some but believe me some parts of it( and especially visual information) is like desert yet.

Anyway I will do as I wrote; if you have an objection please get back to me, otherwise I will assume that "science is sign of agreement" if it's OK with you

Cheers   
Gabrichidze 1:54, 18 June 2005 (UTC 

[edit] Gabrichidze's Mermaids

For the umpteenth time I am reverting Nick Gabrichidze's "Mermaids" image (seen to the right); others have done so too. I think the arguments against it are strong, and there are clearly others who feel the same way. I think this imposes a duty on the poster (whom I believe to be the artist) to explain and justify the post. Others should agree or disagree with his reasoning, and some sort of rough consensus be reached.

My arguments against are:

• I have concerns about self-promotion. It doesn't help that the page Nick Gabrichidze was removed for self-promotion.
• I have concerns about the image's copyright status, and whether the artist is in fact willing to give up all the rights that GFLD requires.
• Not just any mermaid image will do. The Gabrichidze image is not famous, universally esteemed, historically interesting or representative. (The current image, with the swimmer is historical and also funny, but I don't think it's necessarily the best image either.)
• In concert the swimmer and the Gabrichidze image take up a lot of room and move the text around in a very awkward way.

What do other people think? -- User:Lectiodifficilior

For the purposes of use in a Wikipedia article, the issue of copyright status trumps all other points. The artist may if they wish release the jpg scan uploaded here under GFDL or copyright-free-use and still retain copyright to the original and higher resolution versions. However if not, it is inappropriate to an article that already has PD or GFDL images. Non-free images are only reluctantly and conditionally tolerated on Wikipedia when no free image can be located, and may be subject to deletion in the future, especially if there is a free alternative. -- Infrogmation 04:05, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for adding my sig; apologies for forgetting. "Trumps" seems a bit strong, but I get your point. In any case, if that issue were to go away I still don't think it deserves to be in the article, let alone at the top. Mermaids on the Web has over 1,300 images, many of them PD and I'd bet half of the others would gladly make their work PD in order to get the promotion that Mermaid offers. Lectiodifficilior

This has never been enforced seriously against a user, but technically he already did license them under the GFDL. By uploading an image that you own, you automatically license it under the GFDL. It says it right there on the upload page. Rhobite 07:47, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Note: The digital image is released into GFDL

• The owner of the account is not the creator of the image, thus he cannot release it into GFDL. He claims to be a friend of the painter, and claims that the painter wouldn't mind its inclusion in Wikipedia. While that's very nice, it falls somewhat short of our legal requirements. The image is presently listed on WP:CP for investigation. Radiant_>|< 10:53, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Following the harsh discussion at [[caucasophobia] and Nick Gabrichidze VfD pages group of our oponents including Radiant began to remove and re-edit all wikipedia content regarding NckGabrichidze,including the images submited for featured picture category and pages they had previusely shown nointerest for. most content is either removed or taged with absolutely inapropriate tags(see caucasophobia decoration or absolutely unacceptable tags of copyright violation) The vandalism in progress will be filed this eve I guess. Gabrichize

You were told to read the wikipedia copyright rules. Obviously you didn't. mikka (t) 8 July 2005 23:59 (UTC)

Here I didn't even realize there was a past history with the image here, but I removed it almost immediately when it showed up today, as it frankly looked amateurish to me, isn't famous, didn't really illustrate anything in the article, and had no information about copyright status, etc. It seemed to me someone was trying to put up a painting his or her high school student child had done for class or something. DreamGuy 13:02, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

Is there any information about the origin of the word "Mermaid" ? Is it possible it has a French origin ("Mer" means "Sea" in French) ? It is funny because it looks like the opposite in French : "mermaid" is "sirène" and its pronunciation looks like "sea-rène" (literally like "sea queen", but I don't know if "rène" is a variation of "reine" (queen), this is only a supposition anyway).

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, the origin is from Middle English, "mere" for "sea or lake", plus "maid". "Mere", in turn, comes from an Old English word for a small lake, pond, or marsh, from the Proto-Indo-European "mori-". So it's native Anglo-Saxon, not from French, though the appendix of Indo-European roots indicates that the same distantly ancestral root also led to the Latin "mare" from which the French word for "sea" derives, so they are distantly related. As for the French word "sirène", it, like the Spanish "sirena", derives from the Greek word "siren", for a mythical creature whose song is enticing. *Dan* 18:47, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Shouldn't the origin of the term be on the article page somewhere? Val42 03:49, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

"Meermaid" is German for "mermaid". Even though the exact and common used German word for "mermaid" is "Meerjungfrau", one could also say "Meermaid" ("Meer" = sea or ocean ; "Maid" = older German word for girl or woman, still used in Bavaria I think, hehe).

[edit] Production and costumes

A Wikipedia reader sent the following message to the help desk.

I created a section called Productions and Costumes, thinking this was pertinent information that a lot of people look for. If things about Ariel and Madison and the Starbucks Mermaid who are not legendary Mythical characters either can be mentioned on it, why is it that the section on productions (such as people who perform mermaids for the enjoyment of others) and costuming (people who create mermaids for the enjoyment of others) was deleted? The section was open for other productions to be added as well and included one of the top photomanipulation creators of Merfolk.

Please let me know why my information addition to your mermaid related information page was deleted.

I am posting it on his or her behalf.

Capitalistroadster 06:14, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Seeing how no one seems to want to answer this and explaine why my post was taken off, I have decided to join and post on my own behalf.

Could someone explain to me why it is that my section that speaks about costumes and production companies and people who do photomanipulation of mermaids for others got deleted but yet the "Tail Man" can have his own whole page doing nothing but talking about his company and his product that he sells?

I would appreciate a reply. Garnette

[edit] Merfolk Redirect

Why does "merfolk" redirect to this page? Shouldn't Mermaid redirect to the less-specific "Merfolk", where information from both Mermaid and Merman would be merged? Turly-burly 02:52, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Performing searches on Google returns the following numbers of results:

• Mermaid: 5,420,000
• Merman: 842,000
• Merfolk: 101,000

I think that most people would be searching for the term "mermaid". Val42 04:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sexual Reproduction

Can anyone provide clarification in the article on how Mermaids and Mermen sexually reproduce and create off-spring? Do they engage in sexual intercourse similar to humans? or do they spawn like fish? Can a Mermaids only become impregnanted by a merman or can they mate with other species (i.e. humans) and become pregnant? This is a serious question and I would appreciate a serious answer. 68.160.109.172 06:59, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

That depends on the legend. In the one that I've heard, mermaids must seduce a man (human) while she is in human form. This is how little mermaids are made. I haven't heard of anything involving mermen. Val42 07:24, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Mermaid eggs become fish Mermaids bear mermaids as live young

[edit] "Aquatic Ape"

I removed the section discussing the aquatic ape hypothesis because, well, it was incredibly stupid. No one who took that theory seriously ever thought that it had resulted in merfolk-like characteristics in prehumans. KarlM 00:16, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

What if somone did take it seriously there are some messed up people out there. By the way I think that mermaids are a bunch of bull crap. 69.214.26.195 20:17, 25 November 2006 (UTC)