Talk:Mercenary

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Contents 1 "Popular culture" section full of trivia 2 External Links 3 India 4 Hessians 5 Somebody is deleting information and adding biased information in this artical 6 Machiavelli

[edit] "Popular culture" section full of trivia

This section would be much improved by removing all the various one-line references to anime shows and video games. In an effort to be bold I am culling some of these momentarily. If anyone objects please let me know.

--User:Mylakovich

Hear, hear, I fully agree with you. Dieter Simon 23:50, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I think they should be left in so that people can find games and shows to learn more about mercenaries. Admiralfreak

Maybe even expanded, no mention of the Soldier of Fortune games, nor Regiments of Reknown or Dogs of War in Warhammer. Also the Mercenaries play a very important part in BattleTech and might deserve more attention. But they're mostly one-line cause they have articles that talk more about them, no need to fill this with any more than references to them. Highlandlord 20:03, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

However this is an article about mercanaries in real-life, not video games. 86.138.238.167 15:28, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

The section titled "Mercenaries in popular culture" is most definitely not about mercenaries in real life. 71.193.152.63 11:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

A Wikipedia "popular culture" section longer than the rest of the article and stuffed full of the most inconsequential fanboy references?! Nope, never seen one of them around here before ;-) Fourohfour 12:59, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The article is now over the recommended size I suggest that we move the section Mercenary#Mercenar in popular culture into its own article. What do others think? Should we keep the name the new article "Mercenaries in popular culture" or is the a better name? --Philip Baird Shearer 00:33, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and "Mercenaries in popular culture" works fine for me as well. =) Kguirnela 04:11, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

We need some links to actual mercenary websites, I used to know a couple that a got from talking to people on some gun forums, see if I can find some Highlandlord 19:04, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] India

In India, Rajputs and Marathas served different Kings in Medieval India such as Moghuls and Nizams. For centuries dating back to Ashoka's time, different tribes from these areas (Northern and Western India) worked for different Kings including Ashoka, Nanda, Maurya kings.

Rajputs served Humayu to establish the Moghul emperor in India. Being aware of local war techniques, mercenaries served kings to protect their culture and interests. <<need to correct/add in this >>

Badly reputed 'Gardis' were mercenaries working for Peshwas. The British administration used the Maratha's own army discarded by Peshwa (which are from lower cast) as mercenaries to defeat Marathas at Pune.

As early as 1857 (First attempt of freeing India from British) mercenaries were used effectively to decide war outcomes in India.^{[citations needed]}

The Gurkhas of Nepal are today used by the British Army, India and Singapore

I moved the above from the article page to see if it can be cleaned up because at the moment not one paragraph of it is near the standard of most of the rest of the article.

• Were the Rajput and the Maratha home areas outside the Moghul and Nizam areas? A source to back up the calim.
• Protecting own culture and interests does not make one a mercenary (see spanish civil war). Also the comment at the end of the paragraph.
• Badly repute ... Who says they were badly reputed (source needed)
• As early ... Persumably talking of Gurkhas working for the British in India. Needs a source that they were mercenaries, If it is about the Indian Mutiny then a link should be put in.

--Philip Baird Shearer 08:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Here are the answers

• Were the Rajput and the Maratha home areas outside the Moghul and Nizam areas? A source to back up the calim.

There are two things....

1) Maratha/Rajput kingdom and 2) Maratha/Rajput warriors.

Not all marathas were supporting independent Maratha kingdoms. Not all Rajputs were supporting Rajput kingdoms.

Having said that

Rajput and Maratha Home areas were outside the Moghul and Nizam areas for MOST OF THE time.

Western awareness about Indian history is mostly about Moghuls due to it's connection with Persian history....

Warrior castes in India were supporting either Nizam or Mughal but never accepted their rule in their home-land. It was effectively a military service for money or food (perfectly mercenary business)

Mughal and Nizam made serious but unsuccessful attempts to control and wipe out these communities. Mostly the relation when successful was only upto supporting army of one king against other for money or food, and it was only limited for the particular battle. In next battle same warriors would fight from other side. These warriors can be Marathas fighting for Maratha kings or Marathas fighting for Moghul kings.

Similary Rajputs fought for Marathas against Moghuls sometimes. and same Rajputs fought for Moghuls against Marathas.

Marathas fough agaist Moghul when Nizam was giving money to Marathas.

We need to study many battles betwen Moghul, Rajput, Maratha, Nizam to understand the flow of warriors from one party to other.

Most of the Moghul army was made up of Rajputs and Hindus Even when fighting for Moghul most of these kings had there seperate rules. When Moghul/Nizam kings (like Aurangjeb) declared that these kings can not rule their own lands anymore, started converting Hindus, imposing taxes on them. Within span of 50 years most of these kings revolted and Moghul empior broke into pieces.

• Badly repute ... Who says they were badly reputed (source needed)

Famouse Thagies (there is argument whether they are real or just a hype) made up by Brithishers to kill what are understood by localites as 'Gardies'. There is one understanding that these Gardies are nothing but mercenaries who fought for Peshwas/or small king who wanted britishers out of their land.

• As early as 1857 (First attempt of freeing India from British) mercenaries were used effectively to decide war outcomes in India.^{[citations needed]}

Many warriors in 1857 revolt had nothing to do with India's freedom. They were collected by Kings to get back their kingdoms with promise of lot of booty when own. The concept of India as one nation, as presently known has come only after freedom. There are cultures in india as diverse as Persian and Japanese even today.

Before deleting some section from main page it is good idea to discuss the topic in talk page first. Otherwise Wikipedia will be again remain a view and assuptions by some and not real information.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.67.5.18 (talk • contribs) 12:27, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Even if using an IP address please sign your comments on a talk page using ~~~~

As to your last comment please see Wikipedia:Verifiability policy and in this specific case:

The burden of evidence lies with the editors who have made an edit or wish an edit to remain. Editors should therefore provide references. If an article topic has no reputable, reliable, third-party sources, Wikipedia should not have an article on that topic.

Any edit lacking a source may be removed, but some editors may object if you remove material without giving people a chance to provide references. If you want to request a source for an unsourced statement, a good idea is to move it to the talk page.

Hope this helps --Philip Baird Shearer 20:58, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear Philip,

It is very well known fact that lot of history is unwritten, even what is written and known for ages in one part of world may not be available on internet.

What ever mentioned above is well known history in parts of India where generations of families have been / are working as mercenaries. Having said that no one looked at the this part of society from the viewpoint that is persued by western historians.

There are tons of references if you listen the stories in these soceities, visit places and check the local references(these are written in local languages). Unfortunately they are yet not avaible on net or are not yet casted into western concepts. For example There were no concept of thuggies in western world till 19th century, If one british officer had not mentioned it sometime during 19 th century, Today you would have said that there is no such thing as thuggies just because it is not coming from some westeren reference.

Ignoring/Deleting history about some part of the world, does not change the Historical facts.

I am stopping this non-sense of adding information since you are not giving anyone else chance to comment on it. Have a nice time writing your own stories.

~~ Aryabhatta ~~ (—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.67.5.18 (talk • contribs) 10:35, 14 September 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Hessians

Shouldn't there be something about Hessians in this article? Or don't they count as mercenaries, as King George III was a kraut too? Tubezone 10:57, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I think there ought to be something about Irish Mercs too, don't you think? After all, The Geanna Fiadhain ("Wild Geese") played a most significant role in European and World History, fighting around the globe from 1699 to the mid 1980's.150.155.25.230 19:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC) T.M. McCormick

[edit] Somebody is deleting information and adding biased information in this artical

Can I request someone to tell me how can we see earlier versions of this artical.

First someone deleted sources and references about Indian mercenaries from this artical. Then after some days someboday deleted the complete section about India.

Now I would like to know how can I see the earlier different versions about this artical and report the misuse? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.113.37.9 (talk • contribs) 11:17, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Click on the history tab. --Philip Baird Shearer 20:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Machiavelli

Does anyone have a reference for the statements regarding Machiavelli in the "15-16th Century" section of the article? I haven't been able to source an online copy of the work to search for references, and I'm not reading the entire book for it...! 86.20.233.135 11:49, 12 December 2006 (UTC)Russell86.20.233.135 11:49, 12 December 2006 (UTC)