Talk:Mercedes-Benz S-Class

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Contents 1 POV? 2 Killed copyrighted text 3 Template 4 Article needs to be edited 5 First S-Class was built in 1991? 6 Suggested merge 7 Air Suspension 8 Too NOPV?

[edit] POV?

This article strikes me as quite non-NPOV. Perhaps it's due for a rewrite by somebody who's not a die-hard MB fan? Matt gies 01:27, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Amen!...it looks like promotional material rather than the views of impartial analysts.--Louis Epstein/le@put.com/ 12.144.5.2 19:27, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I think mention of Mercedes low reliability in recent years would be appropriate. Especially given Mercedes high reputation for reliability in the past, and the brand's high prices.

Precisely. And whoever said the 1999-2006 S-Class had 'rounded, graceful lines' is insane!

You are just as guilty of blatant POV for replacing "rounded, graceful lines" with "by no means a beautiful car." You should be ashamed of yourself! Please, let us all try to keep Wikipedia objective! Jagvar

To be quite frank, I think we should abstain from any commentary on the esthetic value of the car's design. What one person finds ugly another finds pretty (personally I like the W220's exterior design). Any reference to whether a car is beautiful or not are by nature POV, even if there is a review to be cited-which largely only have the authority of an op-ed piece to begin with. Regards, Signature^brendel 05:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

IMHO, I hope the article will not be too NPOV. I would like to see an insightful and thought provoking article with a view rather than one that gives just the facts. The car is *** cm tall and all. Please keep the discussion flowing and try to reach a consensus.--who is kushal? 18:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Killed copyrighted text

I've deleted the features from the model list. The text was pulled straight from a Merc corporate page [1] and I'd just as soon avoid any hassles. Anyone wishing to reword this into anything other than a direct copy&paste should see the history entry [2]. --Milkmandan 04:11, 2005 Feb 25 (UTC)

[edit] Template

The Template "Road car timeline was not deleted but rather only moved form References to hitsory since this makes the page more user firendly Gerdbrendel 20:37, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Article needs to be edited

They do manufacture the S class (w220s) in South Africa and India; please could somebody verify this? I am not too sure about SA, but I'm sure that the W220 is made in India and they are going to replace it with the W221 soon. Kunalthaggarse

[edit] First S-Class was built in 1991?

This article doesn't make sense as laid out. The purpose of this page should be to explain the place the S-Class group of cars hold in society - the W pages can go into technical detail on each model; Certainly it's not supposed to promote W140 (the most reliable car ever made by humans according to this text, yet in real life a WSJ cover story in early 1990's pointed out W140's unreliability) PLawrence99cx March 2006

Yes the first S-Class rolled of the assembly line as a 1991 model year. The W140 was the first proper S-Class models, meaning that it was the first car to be called the S-Class. Before 1991 and before the W140 there were several models starting witht the letter S, they were refered to as the S-Family. Overall, this article discusses Mercedes' flagship sedans dating back to the fintails of the late 1950's up to the S-Class which started production in 1991 with the W140, before than it just wasn't called the S-Class. Also the statement: "the most reliable car ever made by humans" is totally POV and doesn't belong in the text. Thanks. Signature^brendel 05:52, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

You get this info where - a Benz press release? The big Benz has always colloquially been known as the "S-Class" in the english speaking world. Also, there is a logic problem here - this is a direct quote from this article: "The "S-Class" name was applied to the whole range with the W108/W109 series of 1965." Only big think that happened name wise was in 1994 Benz moved the 'S' from the back to the front of the model designation - big deal. Since multiple W articles link to this "S-Class" article, the article is clearly meant to cover the entire group of vehicles effectively. PLawrence99cx March 12 2006

If you do plan to enforce this bizarre rewrite of history known as the 'no S-Class before 1991' rule, you have a lot of editing ahead of you. From Wikipedia: "Mercedes-Benz W116: The Mercedes-Benz W116 automobiles were produced from 1972 through 1980. They were large (S-Class) luxury sedans, which replaced the W108/W109. The W116 was succeeded by the W126 S-Class in 1980. They were the most popular S-class built, with around 450,000 sold." Since the no S-Class logic makes no sense to me, can't help you, but good luck with it. BTW - the ref to W140s alleged reliability was actually on the W140 - you might start by fixing that POV. PLawrence99cx March 12 2006

Yes, the article covers the entire group and yes the moving of the letter S is a big deal! Of course in Germany the W116 is known as the S-Klasse too, but officially there wasn't any S-Class until 1991. Okay, yes the MB flagship has been called the S-Class long before 1991 but there was officially no actual S-Class 'til '91. There is often a difference between what people say on the street and what actually is. People may not always use the correct designation. MB realized its name system is confusing and said well, lets just call it what the people are calling it more or less, hence the name S-Class was officially given to the car only after the introduction of the W140. In the 1990s MB simplified all of its model names into classes, so officially there was not S-Class before the W140. Of course, here on wiki we want our info to be of use for everyone, so we have incoperated all the MB flagships into the S-Class article. Thank you. Regards, Signature^brendel 06:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

That helps explain the logic of the article - I recommend this explanation of colloquial "S-Class" vs. "official" S-Class be in the text. The article as written is confusing and contradicts itself. Again - countless pages in Wiki refer to this page, so either break those links or create an S-Class page that explains why non-"S-Class" vehicles would link to a post-W140 only page. FWIW - I think this is a bogus explanation - it's like saying that "VW Beetle" is an undefinable concept because VW never actually produced a vehicle with this badge. "S-Class" actually is a colloquial term used by hundreds of millions of people - the fact that Benz decided to use it also is a minor historical footnote. PLawrence99cx March 14 2006

It's not bogus, you said yourself, "That helps explain the logic of the article." Yes, you may think the fact that MB decided to use the name that was already being used "on the street" is "a minor historical footnote," but some may beg to differ. Besides this is an encyclopedia article. I have changed the wording a little, so the article isn't as confusing. Regards, Signature^brendel 00:21, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

So we agree on "That helps explain the logic of the article" - super. Now put the very good contextual text from 'talk' into the article. I suggest you look at the "Volkswagen Beetle" page for guidance. It does not start out saying "The first Volkswagen Beetle was produced in 1998." PLawrence99cx March 14 2006

I put om the phrase: "Even though the term S-Class is used to describe previous Mercedes-Benz flagships, such use of the term is colocial. The first offical Mercedes-Benz S-Class (that was actually called the Mercedes-Benz S-Class) was introduced for 1991 as the W140 series." Doesn't that help? Let me know. Regards, Signature^brendel 21:14, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Not a Benz scholar, but I found this on German Wiki: "Sie steht für luxuriöse Limousinen und Coupés. Nachdem bereits vorher die Spitzenmodelle von Mercedes-Benz die Bezeichnung S getragen hatten, erschien 1972 mit der Baureihe W116 die erste offiziell so genannte S-Klasse." Roughly it means: "It stands for luxurioese sedans and Coupés. After the top models of Mercedes Benz had already before carried the designation S, 1972 with the series W116 appeared the first officially S-class so mentioned." Hope that helps. My main issue has always been that if a reader is researching say W108 S-Class, they shouldn't mysteriously end up on a page that tells them there was no such thing as an S-Class back then. Looks like that is fixed. Thanks! PLawrence99cx March 18 2006

Actually I'm German but thanks for the translation (good job ;-)). I am also a user on the German Wiki and we actually had pretty much the same debate there as we did just now right here. Regards, Signature^brendel 02:22, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested merge

I came across Mercedes-Benz S-Klasse today. Any reason why it shouldn't be merged into this article? Klasse is just class in German. --PS2pcGAMER (talk) 10:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Is this an article in the English Wiki? If so, yes of course it needs to be merged. S-Klasse is just German for S-Class. So, yes I please merge the two articles. Thank you. Regards, Signature^brendel 17:17, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is in the English Wikipedia. I didn't foresee an issue, but I figured I'd go through the usual merging process anyway. As it has been seven days with no opposition, I'll merge it in. --PS2pcGAMER (talk) 04:12, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, after reviewing the Mercedes-Benz S-Klasse further, there isn't anything to merge. Everything appears to be already in the article, often word for word. --PS2pcGAMER (talk) 04:18, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Then the article should be deleted since there is no neeed to have a S-Klasse and S-Class article. Signature^brendel 04:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I just made it a redirect as redirects are cheap and easy. Potentially someone could search using this term, however, I'd think the chances are slim, so if you want to put it on WP:RfD, go ahead. --PS2pcGAMER (talk) 04:30, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

No, its good enough the way it is. I think a redirect is just prefect. Good idea! Thanks. Signature^brendel 04:35, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Air Suspension

There are numberous references to 'Air suspension' in Benz articles, starting with W100, yet they all contain a rather useless link to "Automobile (suspension)" - suggest text or article describing Benz 'Air suspension' setup - anyone know anything about it? PLawrence99cx March 14 2006

As there are other luxury vehicles such as the Lincoln Town Car who use air suspensions, an article on air suspension should contain desriptions of all air suspension. In other words an article for just the Benz suspension would be to specific, rather the article should contain information relating to air suspensions in general. Regards, Signature^brendel 21:42, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree - it's a technology, not a feature found only on one brand. Do you know much about it? PLawrence99cx March 18 2006

Unfortunately I am not an expert on the issue. While I love cars riding on air suspensions, my knowledge on the subject is merely enough for a short stub. But I'm glad we see eye to eye on the editorial attributes. Thanks. Signature^brendel 02:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too NOPV?

IMHO, the article should not be too NPOV. I would like to see an insightful and thought-provoking article with a view rather than one that gives just the facts. Quotations from "reputable" (do we have a consensus on which auto magazines are reputable?) auto magazines will be welcome in this talk page and also in the article page. bare facts like "The car is *** cm tall, the engine's torque is blah blah" would be informative but boring and all. So, please keep the discussion flowing and try to reach a consensus. --who is kushal? 18:04, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Well this is an encyclopeadia, not a popular magazine. The article needs to be as NPOV as possible. If that means sacreficing some entertainment value, than that may be unfortunate but neccessary. Regards, Signature^brendelHAPPY HOLIDAYS 06:08, 1 December 2006 (UTC)