Talk:Mel Lyman

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[edit] Cult Leader

I disagree with the removal of Lyman from the category "Cult leaders". First of all, he was a cult leader, and his only fame is as a cult leader. To have him in category "Harmonica players" but not "Cult leaders" is misleading, as he is far more notable in the later category as the former. Second of all, there are very few sources about Lyman that don't describe him first and foremost as a cult leader. The Rolling Stone article for starters, amd any of the sources listed in the external link, including at least one book. If the assertion is being made that he isn't noted enough as a cult leader in major books and publications (which I don't think is true), then that would mean he isn't notable enough to have to have an article at all (which I think he clearly does). (Admittedly I wrote this article fairly early one and didn't cite sources for major statements, but they're all there in the external link). Herostratus 02:04, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Again...

• Was Mel a "religious leader"? No, he wasn't. There never was a religion "Lymanism" under that name or any other. Mel or his followers didn't write any coherent set of scriptures, there was never anything like a liturgy or any other religious practices, there was no clear-cut creed, there were no "Lymanists" outside of the few hundred Family members.
• Was Mel neither a cult leader or a religious leader, but just another musician? Of course not, don't be silly. Mel is notable for as the leader of the Family, otherwise he would not merit an article.
• Was Mel just the chief of a commune, the Family? He was that, but he was more than just that. I mean, look at the Kweskin quote in the article (and there are many more). (e.g. "There is no doubt in my mind that Mel is the Creator. He is the center of Creation ... He makes me feel the Spirit. He is next to God, if not God himself..." - Richie Guerin)
• Was Mel a "cult leader"? Yes, he was, and everyone at the time understood this, and he was known as such at the time. His charismatic personality was the key element here. People were attached to him personally, in quite an extraordinary way, and believed him to be more than just another person. I'm not saying "cult leader" in a pejorative way. After all, Jesus was a cult leader at first (the religion came later, with St. Paul and the other first church fathers, and the writers of the Gospels.) If "Lymanism" had evolved into a real religion, we could in retrospect call Mel a religious leader. But it didn't, mainly because nothing that Mel wrote or said had any real staying power.

Anyway, I'm going to revert back to that version, absent any counterargument. Herostratus 09:19, 14 September 2006 (UTC)