Talk:Mel Gibson

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mel Gibson article.
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[edit] Quotations

There are a lot of quotations on the article and that's not counting the things he said during his drunken incident. What would be best, is to leave three and post a link to Wikiquote where the rest can be found. That is what is typically done for Bios. I've added the wikiquote link under the external links.--Twintone 21:11, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree with this.98percenthuman 10:05, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Allright. Fwend 14:04, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. I just took the first three with references. If someone thinks that they should be switched for something else that's fine too.--Twintone 15:23, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
And now it's been reverted back. Wikipedia is used for encyclopedic entries and WikiQuote is used for the quotes. Other bios have just a few or no quotes at all even from people more famous for their quotes (i.e. Winston Churchill, Steven Wright, Mitch Hedberg) If it's not limited then there is no reasons to not put up every verifiable thing Gibson said. I think we should consider reverting back to just a few quotes and linking to WikiQuote for the rest. It keeps Wikipedia more encyclepedic. Also if you incorporated specific things he said relating to areas in the article (i.e. his controversies etc) it would be more appropriate. Having a blanket section for all of the things of note he said doesn't seem to fit with other bios on Wikipedia (I mean they don't even have quote sections for Churchill or FDR and didn't they say more important things of note?)

I'm going to revert back to my original change. Blue Tie feels there needs to be a concensus before removal, and I agree, but I feel the Wikipedia community as whole would agree (and so far everyone who has said something is in favor.) Furthermore, I'm using the removal of the Quotes section from Winston Churchill as a precedent. See below:

Quotes A new "Quotes" section was added recently:

"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England." Winston Churchill "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." Winston Churchill It was cut today, but I have restored it. Yes, I know that this article is way too long, but I do not think that that is a reason to chop out some tasty meat, when there is flab --Mais oui! 13:59, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to suggest we cut this again. The main reason is that we already have Wikiquotes, with an extensive Churchill section. Everyone has their favourite Churchill quotes, and it's hard to see how a section like this could avoid growing to a size we are trying to avoid. Can we seriously have a quotes section without blood, toil, tears and sweat, without the Few, without fight them on the beaches, without Iron Curtain? And those were just the ones I came up with immediately. Why waste valuable space duplicating something already win Wikiquotes? DJ Clayworth 14:18, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Remove I agree with DJ Clayworth - I cut the quotes section earlier for precisely this reason. Wikiquote is a more appropriate place for quotes than wikipedia (& we already have a direct link to the wikiquote WSC page) & it is inevitable that any quotes section would grow & grow. AllanHainey 14:52, 8 December 2005 (UTC) If the Quotes section is retained, I suggest it contains a smallish number of well-known or notable quotes. The current selection is poor and unrepresentative. Ben Finn 15:22, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

If a case can be made about why all of those things are wikipedia worthy and can be justified as a seperate section, I'm willing to listen. They are definately interesting and verifiable statements but I don't know if this is the right place for them.--Twintone 16:00, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Photo

Can we open the discussion of a picture up. This is one of the only articles of a major celeb without a headshot of some sort. Again, the DUI photo shouldn't be used because its POV and that drawing looks more like John Stamos than Mel Gibson. RiverCampa 19:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that some people here only want to accept a picture that's in the public domain, like a photo made by a fan. Anything else gets deleted (or commented out). Fwend 20:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I've added an appropriately-licensed photo that hopefully won't meet with too many objections. —Chowbok 01:51, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Great! Good job on finding that one. Garion96 (talk) 01:55, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Good, goody. Keep it. ResurgamII 02:10, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I contend that there is nothing wrong with using the mug shot. It is recent and accurately depicts the individual. That is has negative connotations is a subjective attribute that is in the eye of the beholder, and as such is an attribute that applies to any and every picture. The latest available picture should be used. If it's the mug shot, so be it. If Mr. Gibson or his publicity organ would like to provide a copyright acceptable pic, or there is some other source, that would be better. But I see nothing wrong with the mug shot, as I said it is an accurate depiction, how can that be POV? Jake b 16:41, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mad Max

This was mentioned before somewhere in some past discussion. The Gibson article really needs a specific section regarding the film, as that what really brought him so much "fame". It deserves an equal amount of mention just like the Hamlet/Braveheart/PotC stuff found in the article itself. Can someone please write something for it? I have not seen the film in quite a while so I'm afraid I can't do so. --ResurgamII 02:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anglophobia

Gibson has been accused of anti-English bias for TWO movies, "Braveheart" (1995) and "The Patriot" (2000).

Please sign your name. ResurgamII 19:42, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
As was mentioned earlier, I believe, he didn't write, direct or produce the Patriot, that's why it's a bit dour to hold him responsible. You could suspect it may have affected his decision to play the part, but that's not good enough. Fwend 19:34, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

removed comment per WP:BLP

Please sign your name(err.. IP 195.93.21.34). Please do not use this as a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. Refer to the guidelines at the top of this page. ResurgamII 18:47, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

All articles I have seen (apart from this one) cite "The Patriot" as well as "Braveheart" as evidence of Gibson's alleged hatred of the English. It is no surprise that left wing Democrat Harrison Ford turned the film down, describing it as a piece of garbage which reduced the origins of the American Revolution to one man seeking revenge for his family, and so conservative Republican Gibson played the role instead. (195.93.21.34 16:11, 4 September 2006 (UTC))

It's not an unreasonable suspicion, but it still is thin. After all, many American action movies have Europeans as bad guys, it's part of the formula. (And if the bad guys are not Europeans than they show an interest in fine arts or something, sure sign of a diabolical nature :-) Fwend 19:07, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Two Words for Critics of Mel Gibson: Roman Polanski

Several recent critics of Mel Gibson following his arrest and drunken remarks,say that future movie audiences will avoid every subsequent Mel Gibson film.However,movie patrons quickly forget an actor or director's misdeeds.People still flock to see Roman Polanski's films.Although in 1977 Mr. Polanski pleaded guilty and was convicted for "Rape.Sodomy, perversion,lewd and lascivious conduct upon the person of a minor under age 14 and furnishing methqualone to a minor." (source wikipedia-roman polanski)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jerrywhite (talk • contribs) 2006-09-02T17:52:48 (UTC)

This may very well be true, but please remember that this is not a forum. (And please sign your name using four tildes like: ~~~~)
Fwend 21:56, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
In many parts of the world, Americans are seen as repressed prudes. Many people didn't see anything wrong with Polanksi's relationship. Anti-Semitism is viewed differently. But I agree, this will be forgotten in a few years, and if Gibson goes back to making commercially viable films, people will go see them. Jake b 16:46, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
In many parts of the world, anti-Semitism is the order of the day - the Muslim world and much of Europe (especially France). And, yes, in a few places, child rape is not seen as a big deal. That's hardly a support for Mel, though. BonniePrinceCharlie 21:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I doubt it. He hasn't starred in a movie for four years and everybody in Hollywood thinks he's crazy. He spent months before "The Passion" was released telling people he isn't anti-semitic, and then comes out with that racist rant.

The man collected more than 400 million dollars with The Passion of the Christ. Of course he's worring a lot about movie-goers to his next film as an actor. 201.17.110.115 05:30, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Australian connection

As some of you may have noticed user Sliat_1981 (talk) is unhappy about Gibson's Australian roots not being mentioned at the top of the article. He's added the phrase "Australian-raised" to the opening sentence several times, and after it kept being deleted because it made the sentence too wordy, he's resorted to simply changing Gibson's nationality to Australian altogether.

The fact that Gibson was raised in Australia is arguably important. That's why I would like to propose a compromise solution: putting the info immediately after the opening line, like :

"Mel Columcille Gerard Gibson (born January 3, 1956) is an Academy Award winning American actor, director, and producer, who was raised in Australia."

If that's not acceptable, then maybe we could place it at the beginning of the second sentence:

"Mel Columcille Gerard Gibson (born January 3, 1956) is an Academy Award winning American actor, director, and producer. Being raised in Australia..."

Fwend 12:05, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

- How about the term American-Australian or Australian-American? I mean, c'mon, the guy is an Australian citizen. Don't forget his earlier films had him with an Australian accent (some Lethal Weapon movie; I don't remember which one).ResurgamII 21:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Is he an Australian citizen? Does he have two citizenships? I don't know the guy well enough :-) Fwend 21:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
  • - Yes, actually.

(About having both American and Australian citizenship) "I think it's good to be a hybrid. You can be more objective. If you get shifted from one culture to another, you look at something unusual and say, 'What is this?'" Interview Magazine Fwend, not to mention he received the Officer of the Order of Australia (which is given only to Australian citizens) in 97'.

ResurgamII 01:29, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

The Officer of the Order of Australia is awarded to non-Australians as well, not just citizens. I would also point out that for Mel Gibson to be a citizen of Australia he would have had to have been naturalized, which was a somewhat difficult process in Australia. I do not think Mel had this at the top of his head when he was a young man, drinking, whoring and carousing around. I suspect that he does not have dual citizenship. He did not say he had dual citizenship, he called himself a "hybrid". And I guess technically he is. His mother is Australian I understand, but his Dad is American. I do not believe that any evidence is available showing that he is a citizen of Australia. Any such information in wikipedia should be deleted. However, it is appropriate to mention that he was raised in Australia. The article already does mention that. --Blue Tie 01:53, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I propose the following rule: for the purposes of such categorization (that has very little to do with science or objective truth) someone is to be considered primarily X-ian if he/she was born in X-land and did not explicitely renounce the quality of "citizen of X-land." Will hence be reverting to American. --Aqualung 13:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You haven't answered my original question. I wasn't proposing to change his nationality, but to stop this edit war with a compromise. (Also you haven't signed your name) Fwend 16:14, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Error in the code

The link in footnote 9 doesn't work. It points to "http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/115475p-104184c.htmlMel's", from which the last part, "Mel's" should be deleted. 193.91.181.142 00:24, 6 September 2006 (UTC) (Nick)

[edit] Finding Nemo controversial?

Actually, there was a slight problem after Finding Nemo was released, where kids were flushing their fish down the toilet thinking it would free them to the ocean. So I suppose you could call that "controversial"... ;)

But yes, I absolutely agree: While in many cases tagging something as "controversial" is somewhat arbitrary, I think in the case of Passion of the Christ there is not much room to argue. I mean, people were calling it anti-Semitic before the filming had even finished. If that's not controversy, I don't know what is. --Jaysweet 15:54, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

"Controversial" is one of those incredibly sneaky words that mascarades as objective (it has a definite "objective" ring to it), when in fact is incredibly subjective, and it is definitely not bestowed in good faith. Take for example S.B. Cohen's (aka Borat) latest film: it makes a complete mockery of the whole nation of Khazahstan, however I haven't heard anybody calling it and/or him "controversial." Now I'll let you draw the requisite moral out of this, out of why "Passions" is controversial, and Borat's film isn't. I hence think that Wikipedia should stick to objective facts, not subjective interpretations, however popular and widespread in the media they may be. After all, media in general, and American media in particular, is by far the epitomy of idiocy and cliché.
If you want to kill somebody, you call him/her on one or two public occasions "controversial:" he/she will never get rid of it. He/she will be "controversial" for the rest of his/her life. We, as a society, would be better off without this word. While the term might have had legitimate roots, it has acquired a connotation that prevents it from being used in situations requiring objectivity. Controversial items are not controversial intrinsically, they are made controversial by whoever has the power to do that.
Will hence be removing "controversial" once again. Please address the above concerns before reverting. Aqualung 13:50, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


Aqualung said: Take for example S.B. Cohen's (aka Borat) latest film: it makes a complete mockery of the whole nation of Khazahstan, however I haven't heard anybody calling it and/or him "controversial."
Uh, yeah, nobody except Wikipedia: See Borat#Controversy. hahaha.... --Jaysweet 16:14, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Where does Wikipedia call Borat/Cohen "controversial"? I just couldn't find it. The word "controversial" is nowhere to be found on the webpage you mentioned. Note that "Controversy" is not the same; as a matter of fact you gave me a good idea: I'll replace "controversial" with something else, i.e. "controversy sparked by" or something else to that effect. Calling the "Passions" movie "controversial" has more-or-less subtle unintended connotations (or, at least I take them to be unintended (but again, I am probably too gullible)). Now getting to the issue of the media, how many of you have seen the media storming with accusations of controversy, and bashing Cohen for his film? Where is the turmoil caused by Borat, whose mockery of the kazakh nation is much more overt than whatever (presumed) anti-semitic message the "Passions" movie "boasts"? How come the American media hasn't rushed into condemning Borat and his movie just as they rushed into calling Gibson and his movie "controversial"? --Aqualung 17:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a soapbox. Just because you have a pet peeve about the word "controversial" doesn't mean it should be deleted. It's not Wikipedia's job to lead the way in making beneficial changes to society. Indisputably there was controversy about Passion of the Christ, therefore it was controversial. —Chowbok 16:20, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The word "controversial" as currently used in the Gibson article is not neutral. It is beyond the shadow of a doubt that here it is used pejoratively and derisively (see Controversial#In_propaganda). Whoever put it there did not put it in good faith. Read the first two of the 5 pillars, esp. "Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view." As far as "not Wikipedia's job to lead the way in making beneficial changes to society," the very etymology of the word "encyclopedia" screams "education" (see Encyclopedia#Word_history): would you educate your children in anything other than "making beneficial changes to society"? --Aqualung 17:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Aqualung wrote: Note that "Controversy" is not the same; as a matter of fact you gave me a good idea: I'll replace "controversial" with something else, i.e. "controversy sparked by" or something else to that effect.
If you can find a good way to phrase it, I'd be very happy with that compromise. I frankly think your concerns are way overblown, but I do understand where you are coming from -- and you are probably not alone in that, either. If an alternate phrasing eases your concerns, then I think that would be a clear improvement to the article. --Jaysweet 17:22, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hmmmm...

I wonder why my addition to the discussion was removed. Mel Gibson is clearly a lunatic (gift-wrapping dead rats...wtf???). Even if you view this article from a conservative standpoint, it's obvious. Panda

I am unable to find edits with your ip address. If you created a log in id it would be easier to find and we could identify the reason. If your contribution was to a talk page, it might be archived. If it was to the article page, it could be that you were being highly POV. --Blue Tie 17:05, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More on the DUI

From CNN today:

The sheriff's deputy who arrested actor Mel Gibson for drunken driving has had his home searched by fellow officers investigating how a police account of the actor's anti-Semitic tirade was made public, it was reported Thursday...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/12/gibson.officer.probe.reut/index.html

Maybe not relevent. I'll leave it to someone who cares...

Jake b 13:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Mel Gibson's Safari

Did this game actually exist or was the creator just having a laugh? Wormy 14:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

What exactly are you referring to? --Blue Tie 19:46, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
This http://martypoom.tripod.com/ Wormy 14:53, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I Hate Juice

[1]

I linked to this in the Trivia section, but someone deleted it. I think it's fair enough for inclusion, just as something mentioned in passing. No? --BigglesTh9 11:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Semitism

It is not sufficient that it be "incontrovertable". It must be validated by an objective reliable source. This is per WP:BLP --Blue Tie 00:24, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Blue Tie and have reached an agreement on this, see talk at [2]. (Blue, please speak up if I'm misrepresenting you.) Anyone who thinks we're wrong, please discuss it here. IronDuke 02:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree with you. I think it is better attached to the DUI incident page, but since he admitted it and it is a prominant part of his life now, it seems like a fair compromise -- particularly since he still denies being anti-semitic. --Blue Tie 02:43, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I totally disagree. I think it is against reason and the current rules of Wikipedia for being notable. A man in a drunken state says this one time, and after says he is sorry, and you think he is "notable" for practicing anti-semitism??! That is unbelievable. Maybe we can find out when an actor cussed once under the influence and categorize him as a cusser? Give us a break here will you please? However "yucky" you might think it was, there is no law against speaking uncharitably about any nationality. It is common for black people to be drunk and call each other niggers, but you don't take such a one who does so once and later says he is sorry and then put him in a category as a racist! As if he practices that ism? As if Gibson actual practices the other ism? Let's get real. We have known Gibson for a long time and if he practiced that, don't you think it would have been known after all these years? It is quite common for anyone to say something they don't mean under the influence because they momentarily want to hurt someone else, knowing it will hurt. A person who paints a swastika on a car is not doing so because he practices national socialism, but because he knows he will disturb that person who owns the car. Can we use some common sense here? And to not accept an apology is the worst of all with this. That sounds as hateful as accusing the man of hate. Is it okay to hate those you think hate? --Glossando 12:23, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Actually I have not looked at the category. If it is a category for practicing anti-semitism then maybe I was wrong to agree. --Blue Tie 13:51, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
The category is described as: This category signifies that anti-semetism is discussed within the article. When placed on the page of a person, it does not mean that the person is necessarily anti-semetic. I note that accusations of anti-semitism are part of the article --Blue Tie 13:54, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

While I dont agree with what he said and I certainly think its a horrible thing to say, I think its funny how everyone denounces him and calls him a racist, while Jackie Mason teaches hate against muslim and arabs. Mel's were drunken rambling, Jackie's are hate crimes. Yet, if it's against muslims, not Jews, it's percieved as freedom of speech. Should be the same for both. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.176.166.24 (talk • contribs) .

Folks, the tag is being added not as a way of saying "MG is an antisemite." It's just pointing to the fact that he's been at the center of a couple controversies involving AS. There's no POV here, just reporting facts. This shouldn't be a big deal. IronDuke 21:17, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh course its a way to say he is an anti-semite. By your logic, the cat should be added to about 10,000 other articles. I agree, its no biggy so just leave it off for now and stop agenda pushing, thanks...--68.9.116.87 21:24, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for talking, 68.9.116.87. I understand how it would seem like a way of saying MG is an antisemite: please understand that your suspicions are in no way relevant. We could add the cat to a lot of articles. I hope to do so. Please take some time and check out WP policies before reverting the work of others. I can point you in the right direction, if you like. IronDuke 21:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for proving my point about being agenda driven. By adding the anti-semitism category to as many articles as possible, you water down its meaning/importance and are not doing anybody a service.--68.9.116.87 22:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
So you're saying we have to add it to a lot of articles and then when I say, "Fine," you say I'm proving your point? Bizarre. IronDuke 22:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree that if you add it to a great many articles you make it meaningless. I also think it is a relatively obnoxious but simultaneously useless category since it is only associated with things that happen to touch on anti-semitism but which may not be, in fact, anti-semitism. Given that the category exists as it does it is applicable here. But it is a bad category to attach to PEOPLE. It would be a fine category for things, ideas, books, events, etc. I think that the category for people should be "people who are anti-semitic" and that should be the limit of it, to avoid the flavor of smearing the innocent. --Blue Tie 23:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I never said "a great many." I don't know how large this category would grow, but many categories on WP are large. If you don't want the category, go and argue for its deletion. As long as it exists, it most definitely applies here. Also, Blue Tie, you had formerly agreed with me, and now appear to have changed your mind. Are you now suggesting that Mel Gibson is in no way connected to the subject of antisemitism? IronDuke 23:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Why wouldn't we attach it to people? Because it upsets Gibson fans? Or because it's obnoxious? There's an anti-Semitic people category. Feel free to add that, if you like. IronDuke 23:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Adding this article to Category:Anti-Semitic people implies that Mel Gibson is an anti-Semitic person. WP:BLP#Use of categories has this to say:

Category tags regarding religious beliefs and sexual preference should not be used unless two criteria are met:
  • The subject publicly self-identifies with the belief or preference in question
  • The subject's beliefs or sexual preferences are relevant to the subject's notable activities or public life
Caution should be used in adding categories that suggest the person has a low reputation. See Invasion of privacy#False light.

Unless we have a good source that Gibson publicly identifies as an anti-Semite, this article should not be in the category, and any such edit should be reverted without regard for 3RR, per WP:BLP. —Ashley Y 20:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

- I couldn't even get Marlon Brando's page to be tagged with that anti-semitism category, despite alleged "anti-semitism" displayed by Brando which was discussed in the Brando article.ResurgamII 23:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure Brando's involvement in the subject of Antisemitism is as notable as Gibson's. Ashley, I think you may be arguing about the wrong category. What we're talking about is Category:Antisemitism, not Category:Anti-Semitic people. I agree, the second is a tougher category to implement. But the first is easy -- it implies no judgment about Mel. See also Abe Foxman. IronDuke 18:36, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh, my mistake. —Ashley Y 06:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

The category anti semitism is listed under Gibson's DUI incident where it belongs. Ironduke, please stop agenda pushing which you admitted to earlier.--68.9.116.87 17:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

"Admitted to?" What in God's name are you on about? And if the cat belongs under the DUI article, it surely belongs here. Also, please respect WP:3RR. Thanks for taking this to talk. IronDuke 17:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Read above, you said you would like to add this category "to alot of articles and hope to do so"...please stop pushing your agenda in here, not very civil...--68.9.116.87 17:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I still don't know what "agenda" you're referring to. If you mean adding category information, well, yes, I'm doing that. Perfectly legitimately, I might add. Also, you have violated WP:3rr again. IronDuke 18:12, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the agenda is to label an article in this way because it contains a discussion of anti-semitism. I think that the discussion is along the lines of an accusation, which may not be completely a clean deal. But on the other hand Mel Gibson admitted making anti-semitic remarks. So the label is not entirely unappropriate. Now, when it comes to agenda pushing, your repeated reverts are also agenda pushing and you are doing so in a disruptive way ... not discussing. This could be considered vandalism and you might be banned. --Blue Tie 18:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] adopted siblings

I will be making what I HOPE is a non-controversial change to the childhood section.

It currently notes that Gibson is 6th of 10 children, and that the family adopted 1 more bringing the total to 11.

I really don't think how one of Gibson siblings entered the family is important enough to make a comment on. Kind of like pointing out that 1 was conceived outside of marriage, 4 were planned and the rest were "oops" babies. Not very encyclopedic.

If the child was adopted after Gibson's birth, then he is merely number 6 out of 11 children.

The only exception to this might be if the child were adopted under truly extraordinary circumstances and it was a very telling story as to the values of the family. Otherwise, it is pretty mundane and kind of old fashioned to point it out.

No offense intended to the original author! Just trying to tighten up the article a bit. Interesting read, btw.The Pearl 17:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Antisemitism

Including this category under the DUI article is enough. Gibson's bio doesn't warrant inclusion just because you or others want to label him an anti-semite, thats called POV original research. Thanks.--68.9.116.87 00:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Nope, I don't want to label him an antisemite. Please reread -- carefully -- the discussion above, then come back with appropriate remarks. Thanks. IronDuke 00:35, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Clear attempt at getting around consensus that category anti-semetic people is not approriate.--68.9.116.87 00:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Are you paying any attention at all to what's being said here and on your talk page? Your posts make it seem as if you're not. It makes it difficult to communicate meaningfully with you. Also, are you using this an alternate account? IronDuke 00:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Mel Gibson has been referenced notably in reliable news media reports concerning antisemitism. Once regarding his film, The Passion of the Christ and then with the DUI incident. His article more than qualifies for addition to the Category:Antisemitism. (→Netscott) 01:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
There are four references in four sections of this article mentioning antisemitism. Please give it a rest now. (→Netscott) 01:12, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Mel Gibson is not an example of anti-Semitism, therefore he should probably not be in the category. The individual incidents, however, should be, if there are articles for them. —Ashley Y 01:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Mel is a poster child for antisemitic controvesy. I know fans don't like it, but there it is. IronDuke 01:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps not but there is no denying that antisemitism with regard to his person has been very notably discussed repeatedly by numerous reliable sources. There are four separate sections of this article that make mention of antisemitism, I'm failing to understand the issue of folks feeling that this article on him should not be a part of the antisemitism category. (→Netscott) 01:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps it's the implication that Mel himself is an anti-semite. While many may claim he is, and his drunken tirad was a step backward, he doesn't identify as one. Still, the tirad really did push it over the edge. It's one thing to call Rush Limbaugh a rcist; it's another to prove he was at a klan rally. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 01:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
There shouldn't be any such implication. Clicking on the category makes this clear. See, for example, Abe Foxman. IronDuke 01:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I too am suspicious of this coming off as a POV, but there is a valid point that this does not link him directly to anti-semitism. I was dissappointed to see however that someone added the POV categorization of "anti-semetic people" today. The accusations are far too few to label him with as strong a category as "anti-semetic people." The history/evidence of the issue still is too sparse to say throughout his life he may have been an "anti-semetic." Just adding my two cents.¤~Persian Poet Gal (talk) 06:32, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sprotected

I've sprotected because of the amount of reverting going on. I don't normally put the tag on BLPs, but if anyone else wants to, feel free. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:56, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Tagging after protecting isn't optional. I'd think an administrator should know this already. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 04:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
It's only semi-protected. :-) SlimVirgin (talk) 09:14, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but...the tag is...key. Untagged articles aren't categorized and users aren't clearly informed of what's what unless they try to editting. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 18:59, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not Thomas of Lancaster.

The "accusations of homophobia" section states that Edward II was a "mere puppet of Thomas of Lancaster." But a quick reading of the linked article suggests the opposite: Lancaster opposed Edward and was executed by him. The "Thomas of Lancaster" bit in that statement needs to be changed to Piers Gaveston - who is certainly the historical model for Edward's lover in the film. However, it would be equally accurate to use Hugh le Despenser - or his son, Hugh le Despenser the Younger - in this instance, if the issue is merely whose puppet Edward was. 4.225.134.193 12:31, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

(Doh! The point being, I've forgotten my login info and can't make the edit myself, but it does need to be made, so an admin should make it.) 4.225.134.193 12:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism?

"Mel Columcille Gerard Gibson AO (born January 3, 1956) is an Academy Award-winning American-Australian actor, director, and producer *and a virulent anti-Semite*."

Vandalism seems to be getting really out of hand on this page. I don't know if it should be protected, or even how to do that, but maybe someone with more Wikipedia experience can help out? Alki 03:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
You can't protect articles. That's an administrator-exclusive function, though I'd probably prefer Wikipedia virgin such as yourself to certain others as Admins. Anyway, as bad as it might seem, I've seen worse. There are ways of requesting protection, but I'd imagine it would only be rejected in this article's case. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 04:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Family

In the article, in the "Family" section, Mel's kids are listed with their birth years. His two oldest sons appear to be twins, and thus the same age. Neither of them is named Bear, and nowhere does the article say that either of the twins has the nickname "Bear." Nor does the article state that Gibson has had any children with any women other than his current wife. The last sentence of this section reads thusly: "Mel Gibson's eldest son, Bear, attends Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va." This seems to contradict the earlier part of the section. First of all, if the information provided in the article is completely accurate, Gibson does not have an "eldest son"; rather, he has two sons of the same age who are older than all his other male children. And who is Bear? I don't know if this is extremely unfunny and uninspired vandalism, or simply an editorial oversight. I don't really know enough about Mel to correct it myself. Perhaps there's a Mel Gibson expert out there who would care to comment? 69.205.44.251 03:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uh.... someone needs to change this....

Hi... uh... i'm a history major, but i'm sure it doesn't take one to know this....


I saw Apacolypto.

1. The civ were not Mayans. It was the Aztecs who performed blood rituals for their sun/snake god, Quetzacoatl

2. This does not take place during 600 AD. It takes place appx. during the spring of 1519

3. The location of the film would have been in modern-day Mexico City, which was called "Tenochititlan" by the Aztecs

Can someone please fix this embarrising Apacolypto section? thank you.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AK2 (talk • contribs) 05:37, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Anti-Semitism

I think it might be worthwhile to note that his anti-Semitism and hatred of George Bush are linked. BonniePrinceCharlie 16:33, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

That was random. Citation? Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 19:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Opposition to Iraq War and anti-Semitism (stop helping Israel). Big thing nowadays. BonniePrinceCharlie 22:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Yeah...I'll take that as a "no". Don't add speculation to the article. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 23:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
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